GALATIANS 1:8 WHO IS ACCURSED ?

[Resurrection Priest]

1 hour ago, BibleGuy said:

"Exactly what commands (given under the First Covenant) pass into the New Covenant - is debatable.     "

ALL Torah (Mt.5:19) applies to ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20).

 

Awesome!

Debate settled.

 

blessings...

 

BibleGuy,

We have talked about this at length.  The priesthood is the ONLY THING specifically "changed" under the New Covenant.  The priesthood was "changed" - FROM the Levite/Aaronic TO the Melchizedek priesthood order of "the firstborn". 

This is a "change" BACK to the original order (The Son of God being THE "Firstborn").  

Just as the New Covenant replaces the First Covenant, the Melchizedek priesthood replaces the Aaronic priesthood. 

You keep preaching that the entire First Covenant - with every command and symbolic prophetic ceremony unchanged, passes straight into the the age post Cross. 

I do not accept that.

Why would God command that we do something, that we CANNOT do - travel up to Jerusalem, to offer animal sacrifices?   And that for almost 2000 years. 

The blood of lambs and goats and bulls, IS NOT essential to our salvation.   If it were, the LORD would have restored that Temple on the Mount. 

[Resurrection Priest]

Jerusalem Council instruction to new Gentile converts:

Acts 15:20 "but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols (second commandment) and from fornication  and from what is strangled (Lev. 19:26)  and from blood (that's God's command to Noah  Gen.9:4).   (NAS)

How do we define "fornication"?   The word means "unlawful sex".    According to what law?   Answer:  The law of Moses. 

The Law of Moses is still the reference point.  

In our present civil culture, under present civil law, almost any sexual behavior is "lawful".   But we who believe in God, do not look to our civil laws to know what sexual behavior is "lawful" in the sight of God.  

Only "the priesthood" has been "changed".  

[Resurrection Priest]

The Levite/Aaronic priesthood was changed under the New Covenant, to the Melchizedek priesthood.   But the Melchizedek priesthood could not minister at the Temple existing in Jerusalem.  The Levites still maintained control.   The LORD would need to destroy that Temple along with it's priesthood.  This He did. 

 

[BibleGuy]

5 hours ago, Behold said:

Wanted to hit this one again for you.

Yep, "dispensational teaching", is required to rightly divide the word.   

There is no way to get your Theology into correct "context", without a bit of "dispensational" approach.

But there is also, "hyper-dispensationalism", where a person so chops up the bible into dispensations, that this becomes a theological mess.

The other problem that creates controversy and scriptural meltdown is when a person is applying a dispensation into the wrong era/time/season.

As in....... Trying to jam Moses and the Law of commandments, into "Grace and Truth", came BY Jesus The Christ.

It can't be both.   It can't be "believe on the Lord, and you shall be saved"... AND....>"keep the commandments and the Law (Torah) to be saved".

IT can't be "by Grace you are saved without the works of the Law", and "i keep myself saved by my DEEDS and LIFESTYLE and COMMANDMENT KEEPING and OBEYING THE LAW, (Torah).

For example, right now you have the "time of the Gentiles", and you have "the apostle to the gentiles".   So, those Dot connect.

But if you try to teach "Torah + Cross", as "time of the Gentiles"  (Where God is only accepting our FAITH "as Righteteousness") as Bibleman is getting so confused, then you are teaching heresy because there is no  understanding related to dispensations, so, he is butting heads with Paul.

A lot of People are in a theological fight with Paul, and every one of them is trying to save themselves, and have "fallen from Grace".  These are Legalists.

Hi there!

"Yep, "dispensational teaching", is required to rightly divide the word.   "

Wrong. CHURCH = ISRAEL (Ac.7:38;Dt. 4:10).

 

"There is no way to get your Theology into correct "context", without a bit of "dispensational" approach."

Wrong. CHURCH = ISRAEL (Ac.7:38;Dt. 4:10).

 

"Trying to jam Moses and the Law of commandments, into "Grace and Truth", came BY Jesus The Christ."

WRONG.  Jesus requires ALL TORAH OF MOSES (Mt.5:19) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20).

TORAH is truth (Ps.119:142)....Jesus never abolished TRUTH.

GRACE is given to the humble (Jas.4:6;1Pe.5:5;Pr.3:34).  HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3;Ex.33:13).  So BE HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6) entails OBEYING TORAH (1Pe.5:6).

 

"It can't be both. "

OOPS!

Rom.2:13 + Rom.5:1

Dt. 30:14 + Rom. 10:8

Jn.3:16 + Lk.10:25-28

Rom.11:26-27 + Is.59:20-21

Heb. 8:10 + Jer.31:33

 

"It can't be "believe on the Lord, and you shall be saved"... AND....>"keep the commandments and the Law (Torah) to be saved"."

OOPS!

Ac.16:31 + Lk.10:25-28

 

"IT can't be "by Grace you are saved without the works of the Law", and "i keep myself saved by my DEEDS and LIFESTYLE and COMMANDMENT KEEPING and OBEYING THE LAW, (Torah)."

Sure it can!  IF "works of the law" (in Paul's usage) means FAITHLESS works of the law!  (which it does)

 

After all, we are justified by LAW (Rom.2:13) and FAITH (Rom.5:1) TOGETHER.

Not by law alone (Gal.5:4-5).

Not by faith alone (Jas.2:24).

But BOTH.

TOGETHER.

 

"But if you try to teach "Torah + Cross", as "time of the Gentiles"  (Where God is only accepting our FAITH "as Righteteousness") as Bibleman is getting so confused, then you are teaching heresy because there is no  understanding related to dispensations, so, he is butting heads with Paul."

DISPENSATIONALISM IS FALSE (Ac.7:38;Dt.4:10).

FAITH is of TORAH (Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20;Ps.119:30,86,138).  THAT is the faith Paul requires (citing Hab. 2:4 at Gal.3:11). 

HERESY includes the false teachings of false prophets (2Pe.2:1) who OPPOSE Torah (Dt.13:1-5).

So HERESY is ANTI-TORAH.

So don't be a heretic!

OBEY TORAH!

Just like Paul also requires ALL Torah (2Ti.3:16;1Cor.7:19).

 

" and have "fallen from Grace".  These are Legalists."

Yes..... LEGALISM is bad.

LEGALISM is seeking salvation/justification by works WITHOUT FAITH.  That's BAD.

Paul requires justification by LAW (Rom.2:13) AND FAITH (Rom.5:1).

We are saved by Paul's Gospel IF WE HOLD FAST TO THE WORD HE PREACHED (1Cor.15:1-4) which is FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

So OBEY!

Just as Paul requires...

 

[KJVOnly]

3 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

WRONG again!

There are TWO LAWS!

1. LAW OF SINFUL DISOBEDIENCE AND DEATH (Dt.30:15-19)

2. LAW OF RIGHTEOUS OBEDIENCE AND LIFE (Dt.30:15-19).

 

ROMANS 8:2 only proves were are free from LAW #1.....

 

Paul REQUIRES Law #2!

2Ti.3:16

1Cor.7:19

1Cor. 11 + Jer.31:33

Rom.2:13

Rom.2:27

Rom.3:20 + 1Cor.15:34

Rom.7:25 + 1Cor.11:1

Dt. 30:14 + Rom.10:8

Is.59:20-21 + Rom.11:26-27

Ac. 21:24 + Php.4:9

 

And on and on and on....

 

blessings...

 

Two Laws of the O.T. or 1 Law per testament?

[KJVOnly]

3 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

YIKES YIKES!

It doesn't say you are delivered from ALL LAW!

WE are only delivered from the law of SIN AND DEATH (Rom.8:2).

WE are STILL UNDER the law of OBEDIENCE (Jn.14:15 + Mt.5:19;1Jn.2:3;5:3;2Ti.3:16;1Cor7:19;Ac. 5:32) and LIFE (Lk.10:25-28;Mt.4:4;Dt.8:3;30:15-19;32:47).

After all, TORAH-OBEDIENCE is the very word of faith Paul preaches (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

Paul condones an animal-sacrifice-laden vow to prove he "walks orderly according to the law" (Ac. 21); Paul requires that YOU imitate that Torah-obedient model (1Cor.11:1;Php.4:9).

Paul requires FAITH (Gal.3:11) which is of TORAH (Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20;Ps.119:30,86,138).

Paul says we who do the TORAH will be JUSTIFIED (Rom.2:13).

Paul AFFIRMS the legitimacy of even GENTILES who obey Torah (Rom.2:27).

Paul upholds the NEW COVENANT (1Cor.11:1) which is given as TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).

 

Paul serves in the SPIRIT (Rom.7:6).

Serves what?  TORAH! (Rom.7:25)

After all, those who SERVE obey TORAH (Jos.22:5).

 

What does the Spirit leads us to obey?  TORAH! (Heb.10:15-16;Rom.8:13 + Rom.8:7;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21 cited at Rom.11:26-27;Ac. 5:32;Jn.6:63 + Mt. 5:19).

 

QUESTION:  Do you oppose this Holy Spirit of Torah? (Heb.10:15-16;Rom.8:13 + Rom.8:7;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21 cited at Rom.11:26-27;Ac. 5:32).

 

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
 

Yikes!

Quote

 

YIKES YIKES!

It doesn't say you are delivered from ALL LAW!

 

 

"The Law" is multiple Laws?

"The Law" is partial Law, not all?

Interesting....who decides which one to adhere to, the U.S. congress?

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by KJVOnly

[KJVOnly]

3 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

"Not for sinners, the Law is still in effect for sinners. "

Notice you gave us ZERO SCRIPTURE (again) to support your opinions.

Try again. 

This time, give us SCRIPTURE.

 

AND!

Your opinion is COMPLETELY backwards, buddy!

Torah is for ISRAEL (Mal.4:4)...and YOU are not excluded from Israel (Eph.2:12).

 

"I oppose the death penalty for the saint that is free from the Law though. "

Then you just opposed the very TORAH (Jer.31:33 + Lev. 20) of the NEW Covenant.

The SAME TORAH OF MOSES (" תּוֹרָה " Jer.31:33) passes into the NEW COVENANT.....

 

Jeremiah is not a liar.

 

"If sinners want to smite sinners, I don't interfere."

If YOU oppose Torah, then YOU are at great risk of Mt. 5:19.....

or worse (Mt.5:20)

or worse (Mt.7:21-23)

or worse (Mt.13:41-42)

Ready to repent?

 

"Should saints smite sinners per the Law?"

What does Lev. 20 say?

Answer:  SOME SINS REQUIRE THE DEATH PENALTY!

STOP opposing God's law.

You are treading upon DANGEROUS ground.

 

blessings...

 

 

 

 

LOL...Saints ordered to smite the heathen, now?

Question...would you burn a homosexual at the stake or stone an adulterer as prescribed by the O.T. Law, if civil laws of the land allowed you to?

Edited December 22, 2019 by KJVOnly

[KJVOnly]

4 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

Yes, of course.

 

After all, the PROHIBITIVE Torah laws (e.g., don't lie, don't kill, don't XYZ, etc, 1 Ti.1:10) are not for RIGHTEOUS people....because RIGHTEOUS people are ALREADY obeying all Torah! (Dt.6:5,25;Mt.5:20;1Jn.2:29;3:7)

Same for YOU!

 

Besides, 1 Ti. 1 was written by Paul who ALSO wrote 2Ti.3:16 which requires that ALL TORAH rebuke and correct and teach and train your behavior in RIGHTEOUSNESS.

So of COURSE we in Christ are given the gift of righteousness (Rom.5:17)....which is THE SAME RIGHTEOUSNESS IN THE TORAH (Rom.3:21) which includes TORAH-OBEDIENCE (Dt. 6:25).

AND!

We also DO righteousness (1Jn.2:29;3:7) in obedience to TORAH (2Ti.3:16;Dt.6:25) or else we are a child of the devil (1Jn.3:10) who will NOT inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20).

Now, feel free to ignore these Biblical considerations....and then bring up a different objection instead.....

After we answer all your objections, you'll see you have none left.

 

QUESTION:  Does YOUR BEHAVIOR get corrected and rebuked and taught by TORAH? (2Ti.3:16)

 

Great, you are a righteous man. The Law was not made for you.

Question, since obviously it is NOT for you, why you keeping it(partially)?

 

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,...

 

 

Do you feel akin to the rest?...

 

....but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

¹⁰ For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by KJVOnly

[KJVOnly]

²³ But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

²⁴ Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

²⁵ But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

 

Let's face it...some folks love their schoolmaster, are in full time school for life and never graduate.

They meet weekly for their LAW reunions.

Edited December 22, 2019 by KJVOnly

[BibleGuy]

2 hours ago, KJVOnly said:

Wrong.

There are 2 Laws now....

 

 

² For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

³ For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

⁴ That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

⁵ For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 

 

Which means you mind the things of the flesh.

You need to mind the things of the Spirit.

Get it right.

 

"Wrong.   There are 2 Laws now...."

 

Of COURSE!  I just told you what they are:

1. Law of sinful disobedience and death (Dt. 30:15-19)

2. Law of righteous obedience and life (Dt.50:15-19)

 

Rom. 8:2 only proves we are not under Law #1.

Rom. 8 ALSO proves we are UNDER LAW #2!

Here's the evidence:

1. Rom. 8:2 upholds Christ who requires all Torah (Mt.4:4;5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42;22:37;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20)

2. Rom. 8:2 upholds the SPIRIT who testifies we obey TORAH (Heb.10:15-16), even all Torah ordinances (Eze.36:27) "from now and forever" (Is.59:20-21 cited at Rom.11:26-27).

3. Rom. 8:3 confirms SIN is BAD.  SIN is Torah-disobedience (Rom.3:20;7:7;1Jn.3:4).  STOP SINNING (1Cor.15:34) thus means OBEY TORAH.

4. Rom. 8:4 upholds the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW which is exhibited in TORAH-OBEDIENCE (Dt. 6:25;Is.56:1;Da.12:3;Eze.18:5-9;2Ti.3:16;Mt.5:20).

5. Rom. 8:4 confirms the FLESH IS BAD.  The FLESH disobeys Torah (Rom.8:7).  Thus Torah-disobedience is bad.  Thus, DO GOOD (Gal.6:10) entails OBEYING TORAH.

6. Rom. 8:4 upholds the SPIRIT who testifies we obey TORAH (Heb.10:15-16), even all Torah ordinances (Eze.36:27) "from now and forever" (Is.59:20-21 cited at Rom.11:26-27).

7. Rom. 8:13 confirms the SPIRIT opposes the flesh.  And the flesh disobeys Torah (Rom.8:7).  Thus the Spirit opposes Torah-disobedience.  Thus the Spirit leads us to OBEY TORAH!

8. Paul JUST TOLD US that he CONTINUES to serve (Rom.7:6).  Serve what?  TORAH! (Rom.7:25).

9. Paul UPHOLDS the New Covenant (1Cor.11) which is given as TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).

10. Paul says TORAH-OBEDIENCE is the word of faith he preaches (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

11. Paul requires ALL Torah (1Cor.7:19).

12. Paul condones an animal-sacrifice-laden vow to prove he "walks orderly according to the law" (Ac.21); Paul requires that YOU imitate that Torah-obedient model (1Cor.11:1;Php.4:9).

 

"Which means you mind the things of the flesh."

You're UPSIDE DOWN buddy!  The flesh DISOBEYS Torah (Rom.8:7).   I OBEY Torah.

Try again!

 

"You need to mind the things of the Spirit."

You mean the Spirit who leads us to obey Torah? (Heb.10:15-16;Eze.36:27;Rom.8:13 + Rom.8:7;Jn.6:63 + Mt.5:19;Ps. 51:11,19)

Ok!  Let's obey the Holy Spirit of Torah who leads us to walk in the Spirit in faithful Torah-obedience!

After all, we are given the Holy Spirit IF we obey God (Ac.5:32) who commands TORAH (Dt.1:3;5:27-33).

So OBEY in the Spirit!

Don't walk in the FLESH which DISOBEYS TORAH (Rom.8:7)....that's BAD.

So OBEY!

 

"Get it right."

Ok.  We should do what is RIGHT (Ac.10:35) and FEAR GOD (Ac.10:35)....

And those who fear God obey TORAH (Dt.17:19;28:58;31:12).

That's why Peter applies Lev. 11 to you (1Pe.1:16).

STOP eating pork (1Pe.1:16 citing Lev.11).

OBEY!

 

blessings...