BibleGuy Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, KJVOnly said: Are you saying the other 34 books of the O.T. are not understood as the Law per Jesus and Paul...only the "Torah"? Well, I don't know if we have 100% proof for that one.... Jesus viewed Psalms as "law". The Torah of Moses is (by definition) law. Genesis is not the law of Moses...but still has some laws. Ecclesiastes is true, but not really "law". Song of Songs is quite interesting! But not really "law". But ALL Scripture is required (2Ti.3:16)..... So I'm not sure how important this issue is.... I guess we can ask them later.... Minimally, TORAH (law) in Jer.31:33 refers to TORAH OF MOSES (and thus the PROPHETS and PSALMS by extension)...and that is good enough to rebuke the widely anti-Torah religious establishment all around us. Let's return to truly authentic Torah-obedient faith, as required by Jesus (Mt.5:19) and the apostles (Mt.23:34) for all disciples of all nations (Mt.28:19-20). blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, KJVOnly said: You just debunked 2 Cor. 3, insisting on the keeping of the letters that kill and incessant observation of the O.T. Laws.. OOPS! The letter WITHOUT THE SPIRIT kills... That's why Paul requires BOTH! SPIRIT (1Cor.6:11) and LAW (Rom.2:13) TOGETHER for justification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJVOnly Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 228 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Michael37 said: DYGI (Did You Google It) ? Torah is not in the Bible. No verse. It was made up by some fella to split the O.T. into pieces, Why?, because the entire O.T. is Law and the guy knew it was too big to attempt to keep. He counted 613 commands and dismissed the rest as old hat. Problem is, now the Gentile laws trump the O.T. Law so it is not doable. All they let Hebrew Roots do now is semi-sabbath, feasts and dress up....small stuff to make em feel special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, KJVOnly said: Speak English. Are the 34 other books of the O.T. Law or not? Kinda? Not at all? What is it...make the call. I'm not Paul or Jesus....MAYBE they would consider Ecclesiastes law...MAYBE NOT.... Let's ask them when we get the chance! It doesn't really matter....ALL Scripture applies to us (2Ti.3:16)....whether you want to call it "law" or not. ALL Scripture is inspired by God and thus of divine authority. So do what is says! Until we ask Jesus or Paul then, minimally, TORAH (Jer.31:33) refers to the TORAH OF MOSES in the New Covenant, and that's good enough to rebuke the anti-Torah religious establishment all around us. Let's return to truly authentic Torah-obedient faith as required by Jesus (Mt.5:19) and the apostles (Mt.23:34) for all disciples of all nations (Mt.28:19-20). blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, KJVOnly said: Murder gays and adulterers per Torah and live? Mkay. You can't commit a death-penalty-warranting crime and expect to continue living! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJVOnly Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 228 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 hour ago, BibleGuy said: TWO LAWS: OBEDIENCE or DISOBEDIENCE. They are BOTH IN Dt. 30:15-19. Paul APPLIES Dt. 30 to you (Rom.10:8) thus UPHOLDING BOTH LAWS. But! The law of sinful disobedience and death (Dt.30:15-19) does NOT apply to us in Christ (Rom.8:2). Why? Because we are FORGIVEN of sins (Mt.1:21) and we OBEY in faith (Rom.10:8 citing Dt. 30:14)! Thus, the law of OBEDIENCE (Dt.30:15-19;1Jn.5:3;Mt.5:19;2Ti.3:16;1Cor.7:19) and LIFE (Mt. 4:4;Dt.8:3;30:15-19;32:47;Jn.6:63 + Mt.5:19;Jn.14:6 + Mt.23:2-3,23) is in force for us. NOT the law of disobedience and death. But they are BOTH Torah. That's why you must CHOOSE! CHOOSE LIFE! (Dt.30:15-19) So OBEY! blessings... So, the O.T. Law is combined in the N.T. Spirit? You just crucified the son of God afresh and put him to an open shame. You just told Jesus, you choose both covenants.... Moses and Jesus per Hebrews 7. Bad choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, KJVOnly said: I see...Paul said this...... 21 In the EXTENSION OF THE LAW it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Is this the Hebrew Roots translation? "Is this the Hebrew Roots translation?" What's that? And why assume Paul only defines " νόμος " as the written Torah of Moses? After all, sometimes " νόμος " has a different meaning.... " νόμος " is not ALWAYS so narrowly defined. blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJVOnly Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 228 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 hour ago, KJVOnly said: 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. What Law of the Jews was Paul quoting from? Torah??? Was this a sub-Law? Kinda like a sub-pastor? Or, is this verse found in the ACTUAL Law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, KJVOnly said: The Schoolmaster is the Law. It pushes us to Christ. When we get Christ, the Schoolmaster leaves. Then we have Christ alone. We are no longer under the schoolmaster, not even kinda. "When we get Christ, the Schoolmaster leaves." OOPS! When you get to Christ, you OBEY HIS COMMANDS (Jn.14:15) which require TORAH (Mt.5:19), or else you are NOT His disciple (Jn.8:31). "Then we have Christ alone." OOPS! You also have Christ's WORDS which require TORAH (Mt.5:19) or else you are NOT His disciple (Jn.8:31). "We are no longer under the schoolmaster, not even kinda. " Agreed! But that's NOT the only function of Torah. I gave you BIBLICAL EVIDENCE of another dozen ONGOING Torah functions.... But, as typically, you IGNORED those Biblical reasons.... Gotta say....not very impressed with your responses.... blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 Just now, KJVOnly said: Was this a sub-Law? Kinda like a sub-pastor? Or, is this verse found in the ACTUAL Law? "Or, is this verse found in the ACTUAL Law?" Not that I know of.... That's why it's reasonable to seek an alternative conception of "law" to explain Paul's usage of Isaiah. blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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