What is your interpretation of this scripture?

[RogerDC]

On 1/11/2020 at 4:11 AM, maryjayne said:

 

True feminism is reclaiming the honour that God gave to women in His Word.

 

Every scheme of the devil contains something good and reasonable.   But over all, feminism is a perversion of what God created women to be.  Feminism hates women.

What you call "true feminism" is probably the reasonable parts that makes the feminist movement appealing to most women.  It fools hundreds of millions of women and men, but it doesn't fool me.

Edited January 12, 2020 by RogerDC

[Guest Bandit]

Here is a translation direct from ancient Aramaic,.."Let your Woman be silent in the assembly: for it is not permitted them to speak,but to be in subjection, as also Torah says."

Paul was a Nazarene, They still believe in upholding torah, just not saved by it.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Bandit

[RogerDC]

7 hours ago, maryjayne said:

I think it is no coincidence that the fall of godly churches has come at the same time as the rise of women vicars - I think you call them pastors? 

 

Well said and well observed.  Feminism invariably comes with two other evils - the condoning of abortion and homosexuality.  Given enough leeway, feminists will then introduce paganism in the form of goddess worship.  This pattern has also been witnessed in the Catholic Church.  Many nuns are rabid feminists and are very corrupt in a spiritual sense.

[RogerDC]

6 minutes ago, Margo1945 said:

I can't resist throwing in my two cents' worth and I did try .. lol .. God created man and woman - male and female - and He uses each as He thinks best .. I am female and I have never supported "women's lib" or "feminists aka feminism", not because I do not value some of the issues brave and determined women fought for such as getting the vote

 

Giving women the vote was Satan's first step in his nefarious plan to destroy and pervert  humanity by injecting  the poison of feminism.  Without voting for women, feminism would have gotten nowhere and been restricted to a small and irrelevant lunatic fringe. 

 

Look at the nation of Japan, it has perhaps the lowest birth rate in the world.  Japan is a demographic ticking time-bomb that is heading for extinction.  Where did Japan go wrong?  It went wrong when, after World War II, it's American conquerers  made Japan rewrite it's Constitution to give women the vote.  This of course opened the door for Satan's Daugher - feminism - to enter that civilization and begin its deadly work.   Japanese women en masse pursue work and careers (and abortion) instead of motherhood.  If things continue as they are, Japan will eventually suffer economic collapse, as, due to a lack of offspring, there will be lots of old people and not many young people to support them.

[RogerDC]

13 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

I believe we have the ability to determine what justice is. If I tell your neighbor he can speak in church, while telling you that you can't, you can see that is unjust. It wasn't God or Jesus who said women can't speak in church - it was Paul. At one time, God had a woman, Deborah, judging Israel.

God does not approve of female leadership - Isaiah 3:12

[BeauJangles]

39 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Here is a translation direct from ancient Aramaic,.."Let your Woman be silent in the assembly: for it is not permitted them to speak,but to be in subjection, as also Torah says."

Paul was a Nazarene, They still believe in upholding torah, just not saved by it.

Pardon, bro. The New Testament was written and communicated in Greek, not Aramaic. Jesus spoke it as did His disciples most likely, but not The Apostle Paul. 

Letters of Paul the Apostle

 

The ancient Greco-Roman personal letter began with the statement of the name of the sender and the person, persons to whom the letter was addressed: “Apion to his father Epimachos.” Then there was a formal salutation (from Latin word salutare, salus literally meaning “wish health to”): “Greetings and may you be healthy.” Maintaining physical health was very important to the people in the ancient world when the average age of death was between 35-40. Following the greeting was the body of, the reason for the particular letter. The closing of the letter usually ended with “I wish you to be sound and healthy” or “Fare well.”

The Apostle Paul who wrote two-thirds of the New Testament in epistle form employed yet embellished and expanded upon the Greco-Roman model of his day. Paul wrote 14 letters. At the beginning of 9 of the 14 letters Paul identified himself as an “Apostle of Christ. “Apostle” means in Greek “to send.” Frequently in his opening address this Sent One called himself a doulos, meaning in Greek a “slave” for Christ: “Paul, a doulos of Christ Jesus” in Romans 1:1; and in Titus 1:1 “Paul a slave of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ.” In very few ancient letters do any of the senders identify himself or herself so strongly with a deity and certain it is that none of them would have identified themselves as the lowest rung on the ancient world’s ladder–a slave.

Paul in catacombs of St. Thecla  c. 350 AD

Rather than just say, “Paul to the church in Rome or Corinth” as would have been the form of the day, Paul taught his recipients as he addressed them: “To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people.” (Romans 1:7) “To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those  everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours.” (I Corinthians 1:2,32 ) His letters are didactic rather than just informational. The body of Paul’s letters make up much of the theology of the Christian Church. One always sees the love and care Paul has for the people in the churches he established. In his personal letters to Timothy and Titus, one feels the tenderness of a good father. This kind of love is noticeably absent from ancient letters.

Even though his letters are brilliant and show a first-class mind ontologically and theologically, Paul digresses occasionally to personal things:

               Painting of Paul from Cave of St. Paul in Ephesus c. 450 AD

“And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.” 2 Cor. 12:7-10 KJV

                                   Saint Paul—Rembrandt, c.1629

Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” has been a subject of debate over millennia. Maybe there was a residual eye problem as a result of his conversion experience when he was struck blind by God and later received a healing. (Acts 9:1-19)  We know from Romans 16:22 that Paul did not write that long letter to the Romans: “I, Tertius, who wrote down this letter, greet you in the Lord.” In II Thessalonians 3:16,17 we read, ”The Lord be with you all! I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand, and this is a distinguishing mark in every letter; this is the way I write.” And to demonstrate further that Paul really had trouble seeing and writing, he says in Galatians 6:11: “See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!” So Paul dictated his letters and did have a problem with his eyes, but that may NOT have been his “thorn in the flesh.” The scholar J.B. Lightfoot and other scholars think Paul’s thorn was  epilepsy based on several verses in his New Testament letters: e.g. Galatians 4:13-15. However handicapped, Paul through Tertius and other amanuenses was a very productive slave for his Master.

The endings of Paul’s letters diverge completely from ancient Greco-Roman endings  which appear to modern eyes to be void of any “I love you’s” or “My love.” Only a handful of ancient letters display Paul’s love and affection. Paul ends his letters with “Greet one another with a holy kiss” in II Corinthians 13:12 and I Thessalonians 5:26. In Ephesians 6:23,24: “Peace to the brothers and love with faith from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace to all who love our Lord Jesus Christ with undying love.” Love and concern and affection leap off the pages of Paul’s non-classic benedictions. Perhaps our modern written letters follow some of the classic beginnings with “Dear Ruth,” or “Dear Wayne.” But we at least have the affectionate “dear” in front of their names. Most of our world, post Christ, have followed Paul’s pattern and written personal letters that show emotions and love as well as conveying important facts and information.

   

[RogerDC]

13 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

No, the thought of women speaking in church seemed to make him angry.

Paul had good reason:
"And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression."  1Tim 2:14

[RogerDC]

13 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

It is exactly what I am saying. Paul said women shouldn't speak in church. If he was speaking for God, then women shouldn't speak in church then or now.

Paul is against female leadership.  He is not against any and all roles for women in the Christian community.  In the Catholic Church, only men can be priests, but women can have subordinate roles. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by RogerDC

[BeauJangles]

24 minutes ago, RogerDC said:

God does not approve of female leadership - Isaiah 3:12

Oh?

Great Women Leaders of the Bible – Conform to Jesus

Huldah – A prophetess who verified the authenticity of the book of the law of the Lord given through Moses, which was the book of Deuteronomy. This is an important point because that means Huldah, a woman, was educated enough to read the Scriptures, understand the hermeneutical principles involved, and gained trust by men in a culture of patriarchialism (2 Kings 22:14).

Miriam – The daughter of Aaron and a prophetess. She was one of the triad leaders of Israel during the Exodus from Egypt (Exodus 15:24).

Deborah – A prophetess judge who headed the army of ancient Israel. She was a great leader and influenced Barak, the commanding army general during that time (Judges 4-5)

Esther – According to the Bible, Esther was a Jewish queen of the Persian king Ahasuerus. Her story is the basis for the celebration of Purim in Jewish tradition. This examples indicates that the Jewish people honored women before the United States. It wasn’t until 1911 when the International women’s day occurred around the week of March 8th. This whole book was written in the Bible, and guess who the hero of the story is? Esther! Go women! She was a God-honoring, loving person who demonstrated the faithfulness of God.

Ruth – The book of Ruth tells a story about a woman named Ruth who accepts the God of the Israelites as her God and the Israelite people as her own. The book is held in esteem by Jews who fall under the category of Jews by choice, as is evidenced by the presence of Boaz in rabbinic literature. Did you know that the Book of Ruth functions liturgically on a Jewish holiday called the Shavuot? Once again, a day of honor for women!

Eudoia and Syntyche – Devoted women who were active evangelists, spreading the gospel. This demonstrates that women were also helping out with the men and fulfilling the great commission to tell people the good news of Jesus Christ (Philippians 4:2).

Junia – Paul refers to a male apostle, Andronicus, and a female apostle, Junia, as outstanding among the apostles. Every Greek and Latin Church Father until Giles of Rome acknowledged that Junia was a woman. After that time, various writers and translators of the Bible resorted to various deceptions in order to suppress her gender (Romans 16:7).

Mary of Magdalene – She traveled with Jesus and His disciples throughout the region of Galilee and Judea. She was present at two of Jesus’ most important events: The Crucifixion and the resurrection. Her testimony to the resurrection demonstrates the type of faith that she had. In fact, it shows us how much greater her faith was than the disciples who had struggles believing that Jesus rose from the dead.

Mary, the mother of God – The gospel mentions Mary as the mother of God, and the most blessed among women. She spoke the words of praise in her most famous declaration of the Lord, the magnificat. Most people know her as the virgin who conceived her son miraculously by the agency of the Holy Spirit. This event led to the theological understanding of God’s hypostatic union–the union of Christ’s humanity and divinity in one hypostasis, or individual existence.

These are just a few examples of women who were influential in the Bible. 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by BeauJangles

[JohnD]

On 1/7/2020 at 12:49 PM, joebloggs said:

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV)

³⁴ Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. ³⁵ If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

what do you think this scripture intends to communicate to us?

We are under Grace.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (AV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are also a kingdom of priests...

Revelation 1:6 (AV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (AV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (AV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

...almost ALL of which do not even know we are priests...

Whenever men failed to step up in history, God called women to step in

and do their ministry. The prophetess Deborah... Jael (who executed the despot

Sisera when Baruch was too sissified to do the job)... the women at the tomb of the

Lord Jesus...

If there should be millions perhaps billions who claim to be Christians and therefore

millions / billions of priests down here on planet Earth evangelizing the hell out of people

(literally)... and there are only a few hundred thousand men who stepped up to pastor / lead...

with that HUGE under-staffing,  how is it God would hamstring the Gospel outreach by

denying women the pastorate or telling them to shut up in Church?

Honestly.

The scriptures about women being silent / not teaching men  /  being rather submissive is

under ideal circumstances where all the men step up and preach and teach and lead and pastor

the Church.