kenny2212 Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 359 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 101 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 44 minutes ago, Adstar said: The Rapture is coming .. But at the second coming of Jesus.. Those children of Jesus who are alive and remain at the second coming will be caught up into the sky to meet up with Jesus upon his return.. We shall be coming right back down to earth with Jesus to rule the world with Him.. The second coming is described in Rev. 19:11-14, right? I see no evidence of a rapture there. Just says Jesus comes to rule. Give me scripture evidence that shows that we go up to meet him and then come right back down with him. The rapture happens at the 6th seal - Rev. 6:12-17 - I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and [a]behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the [b]moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky [c]receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, [d]the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” The idea that the rapture happens here is supported by the fact that immediately after these comic disturbances and RAPTURE (emphasis mine), the servants of God (the remaining children of God in the earth) are sealed; Rev. 7:1-8. God bless us all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCoot Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,192 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1957 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Diaste said: The density of some minds is astounding. Trying to prove a point that has nothing to do with the replied to post. Post faith religion has made the 'rapture' an object of worship, conjured by the mind of man spurred by dark whispers, fashioned by the hand of man, prepared as spiritual food and force fed to the masses. Literally ripped from the truth the result is the same as consuming forbidden fruit; taken from that truth, refuted by the very bedrock from which it's taken; cuddled and nurtured by post faith religion and grown to immense, uncontrollable proportions like the rebellious progeny it is. There is no dispute over the reality of the gathering of the elect at the appointed time. The dispute is the wasted mind and heart destroyed by post faith religion through nonexistent church 'truth', a manufactured truth, fleshy, not of the Spirit, fear based, diluted pseudo sustenance, at which the people greedily feed. All of those words with little substance. like clouds with no water. Edited January 29, 2020 by OldCoot stupid spell checker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny2212 Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 359 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 101 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Adstar said: God allowed the first Christians to be persecuted and killed for their faith.. God has allowed Christians to be persecuted and killed for their faith in Jesus for near 2000 years.. Jesus forewarned us the following:: John 16: KJV 33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." If every Christian is meant to be killed (or die by other means), why should there be a rapture? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCoot Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,192 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1957 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, kenny2212 said: The second coming is described in Rev. 19:11-14, right? I see no evidence of a rapture there. Just says Jesus comes to rule. Give me scripture evidence that shows that we go up to meet him and then come right back down with him. The rapture happens at the 6th seal - Rev. 6:12-17 - I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and [a]behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the [b]moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky [c]receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, [d]the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” The idea that the rapture happens here is supported by the fact that immediately after these comic disturbances and RAPTURE (emphasis mine), the servants of God (the remaining children of God in the earth) are sealed; Rev. 7:1-8. God bless us all I guess the first thing that must be answered is... what is the condition that actually causes the Messiah to return to earth? Yes, scripture (both OT and NT) is quite clear that a specific condition must be met before He will return to rule. And no, it has nothing to do with the church or the antichrist. Nor does it have anything to do with seals, bowls, vials, trumpets or anything else that people spend a lot of time trying to determine when they happen. There is one specific thing that must happen before He will even consider returning to this earth. And Satan has spent at least the last 2000 years trying to prevent it from happening. Once one gets a handle of what that one condition is, then they can understand what the purposed of the tribulation period is and who is the main focus. Then everything else is easy including understanding not only the timing of the removal of the righteous, but the reason. Edited January 29, 2020 by OldCoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCoot Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,192 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1957 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Justin Adams said: Ha Ha. Yes let's all worship the sacred cow of Darby and Scofield... Unmitigated drivel for the pew-warmers that want a cushy load of nonsense. Come right up ladies and gentlemen, do not forget to check you mind in at the door. Let's all sing hymn number 101; Lord send the elevators to my back yard, the TV remote is bust and I'm finding it hard... DUHHH??? Except an early removal fo the righteous was taught long before Darby. Darby gets far too much credit for inventing something that had been taught for several centuries before he came on the scene. But I am honored that you think folks like me who believe in an early removal of the righteous are worthy of ridicule and scorn. Peter was right. Edited January 29, 2020 by OldCoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 minute ago, OldCoot said: Except an early removal fo the righteous was taught long before Darby. Darby gets far too much credit. But I am honored that you think folks like me who believe in an early removal of the righteous are worthy of ridicule and scorn. Peter was right. Some people get somethings correct and somethings wrong. Not scorn but just an appreciation of the outlandish claims by some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2020 10 hours ago, kenny2212 said: I just don't see the necessity of a rapture after the tribulation. Let's say believers go through the whole tribulation... Majority of the believers would definitely be tortured and killed. Let's say Jesus comes after this and says "Count yourself lucky; you have a part in the rapture". Won't the believers be right to ask "Isn't it too late for that now?" A rapture at the second coming is definitely too late. God might as well let believers (non-Jewish believers) make it alive into the millennium. The rapture has to happen but earlier (1 Thess. 4:15-17). What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't make sense for God to allow the believers to go through the suffering of the tribulation before rapturing them. Something as unique as the rapture should have a unique purpose... Something as unique as the rapture shouldn't be tied with anything else (hope you understand what I mean)... God bless us all This verse is the reference to those who are born again believers and that they will not go into the 7 year tribulation. Revelation 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCoot Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,192 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1957 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said: It's not hard at all to understand. The coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and being caught up is the very last event to occur in this sin cursed earth. Once everyone ordained to eternal life is saved in this world, it simply ends, and the new heavens and the new earth begin. Jesus didn't pay for the sins of His people only to come back to earth to reign on that same sin cursed land. He will come to destroy it: " Behold, the [day of the Lord] cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: The sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine." (Isaiah 13:9-10) if you compare this language with Joel 3 and Matthew 24, the sun , moon and stars cease to exist because the day of the Lord is going to bring swift destruction.... like the heavens passing away with a great noise and the elements melting with fervent heat ("day of the Lord", 2Peter 3:10) Only God's people will be left to " shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father" ( Mt.13:43) If Yeshua is only going to rule on a perfected earth then why... 1) does the kingdom only last 1000 years and then there is another rebellion? 2) why are people penalized by having rain withheld from their land if the do not come to Jerusalem for Tabernacles? 3) why is there still death in the kingdom? 4) why do the nations seek to throw off the rule of Messiah over them? 5) why is Messiah ruling with “a rod of iron” implying He will deal swiftly and firmly with anyone who gets out of line? 6) who is it that enters into that kingdom which would cause these issues? Edited January 29, 2020 by OldCoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny2212 Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 359 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 101 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, missmuffet said: This verse is the reference to those who are born again believers and that they will not go into the 7 year tribulation. Revelation 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. We're on the same side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCoot Posted January 29, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,192 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1957 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said: I'm sorry I thought you knew where I was coming from. Every one of the points you made I consider to be symbolic or metaphoric language describing the kingdom of God. I call it the beautiful language of the Old Testament. One will be perpetually confused, not being able to find harmony with scripture if they consistently endeavor to interpret that language literally. I would think the reverse would be true, since viewing the text allegorically would make things highly subjective with no baseline standard. Every time I read where Yeshua refers to scripture, He seemed to take it at face value or “literal”, so I see no reason to do otherwise. Edited January 29, 2020 by OldCoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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