Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[Revelation Man]

18 hours ago, The Light said:

Jesus comes pre 70th week for the Church. He comes at the end of the week for the 12 tribes across the earth and He comes with His army from heaven at the 7th vial, which is another view of the 7th trumpet.

 

And we, the Church are that Army, Rev. 19 SAYS SO....and we thus have to be gathered from Heaven to return right ? Of course I'm right on the point. 

18 hours ago, The Light said:

Yep simplistic language. It is determined that the seed of the woman determines whether someone is a Jew. The remnant of the seed of the woman is the 12 tribes that are across the earth.

 

The SEED of the Woman is Jesus !! Did you read the passage I already gave you on this ? 

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

We the Church are the Remnant of THE SEED, Israel/Jews were not the SEED as in MANY !! It was ONE SEED, Jesus Christ !! We came to God via FAITH ALONE, thus we are that SEED !! Come on man. This isn't that hard to register if you read it and think about what it says. There is a REASON I think as I do. CLEARLY the above says the Jews are NOT the SEED, but Jesus Christ is the SEED of the PROMISE !! The Law that came 430 years later can not VOID the Promise !!

So, in essence, the PROMISE was the first Covenant, the LAW was added later because of sin. SEE BELOW !!

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
 

18 hours ago, The Light said:

The rapture is not specific to the Gentile Church. We know this because the GOODMAN will not know when the Lord will return as in such an hour as you think not the Son of Man commeth. and yet we are also told that the day of the Lord will not take others unaware. The people in Paul's day were afraid that they had missed the gathering. Paul told them first the man of sin must be revealed.

2 Thes 2

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

² That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

This scripture alone should tell you everything you are saying is incorrect. If the gathering was when God comes with his armies from heaven, why would those people be afraid that they had missed the gathering. The are afraid because they are afraid that they are in Gods wrath. Dude, just think, logically. Why are they afraid? Would they be afraid that they missed the armies of heaven returning? No, they are afraid that they missed the gathering and have entered the wrath of God. The gathering you see in Matt 24 is NOT THE SECOND COMING when Jesus returns with His armies. Put things where God says they go and everything lines up perfectly. Jam thing where they do not go and you have a bucket of confusion.

The Jews like Daniel, etc. will be raised to stand in their lots at the very end, it says so in Daniel ch. 12 and in various places. Nowhere are thy said to be Raptured up, then return with Christ, save those like Paul, Peter and John who are a part of the Church/Bride of Christ Jesus. The Thessalonians were Gentiles. Paul told them they would DEPART or as verse 1 says be gathered unto Christ Jesus BEFORE the Anti-Christ OR the DOTL comes upon the world. He was referring to the Church/Bride of Christ. We are indeed Gathered. But its not the SAME Gathering, its OK for God to use a word in two places right ? The Bride can be Gathered from the Earth, then GATHERED AGAIN, from Heaven to go back to earth 7 years later right ? Why is it God can't use the same word in various places without it having to be the SAME EVENT ? If you write about a fishing trip, and then write about a different fishing trip 20 years later, we can understand the difference through the variant adjectives you use to describe the trip, we don't run around saying , Naaaaa, that trip was in 2001, he wrote about it.....others would say, BUT he says hes 60 years old now, not 41............Nooooo, nooooooooo,nooooooooooooooo it has to be 2001, he wrote about fishing. 

You can't pigeonhole God brother. I think people do it to try and prove their own POINTS and they don't even realize it.

Like I stated, its not the same GATHERING. The one described in Matt. 24:29-31 is the Second Coming...........The Rapture happens 7 years BEFORE that.

18 hours ago, The Light said:

I've probably told you no less than 20 times that I believe that the Church is raptured pre trib and is in heaven for the 70th week of Daniel. So we totally agree here. The Church is in heaven 7 days or for the 7 year period. Even as Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. Noah is not in the ark for a 7 day flood, he is in the ark 7 days BEFORE the flood. BEFORE Gods wrath is poured out. You said it yourself that there is a 7 day betrothal. THEN the marriage supper happens in heaven, not on the earth.

 

Then you should know that Matt. 24:29-31 is the Second Coming. Not the Rapture. And you admitted you think the Rapture comes just before the Wrath, but the Wrath only lasts 3.5 years, not 7, so that is a variant also.

18 hours ago, The Light said:

The rapture is not specific to the Gentile Church. We know this because the GOODMAN will not know when the Lord will return as in such an hour as you think not the Son of Man commeth. and yet we are also told that the day of the Lord will not take others unaware. The people in Paul's day were afraid that they had missed the gathering. Paul told them first the man of sin must be revealed.

2 Thes 2

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

² That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

This scripture alone should tell you everything you are saying is incorrect. If the gathering was when God comes with his armies from heaven, why would those people be afraid that they had missed the gathering. The are afraid because they are afraid that they are in Gods wrath. Dude, just think, logically. Why are they afraid? Would they be afraid that they missed the armies of heaven returning? No, they are afraid that they missed the gathering and have entered the wrath of God. The gathering you see in Matt 24 is NOT THE SECOND COMING when Jesus returns with His armies. Put things where God says they go and everything lines up perfectly. Jam thing where they do not go and you have a bucket of confusion.

No, the First Seal is opened in the Middle of the Week, it is the Anti-Christ coming to power for ONLY 42 Months !! Like I told you, your TIMING is what is throwing you off. I have the TIMING down pat on all things. Once you get the timing, everything else falls into place easily. God's Wrath comes in the Middle of the week and lasts 42 Months or 3.5 years. 

18 hours ago, The Light said:

I understand the 7 day Jewish betrothal period, so we both agree that the wedding feast will occur after 7 days. And that 7 day period is the 70th week of Daniel. What happens at the end of the week. There will be a gathering from HEAVEN AND EARTH. The Church is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes are gathered from the earth. NOT THE JEWS IN THE NATION OF ISRAEL They go through the wrath of God in a place of protection.

There are no 12 Lost Tribes per se, the 12 Tribes are ONE NATION, read the Ezekiel 37 two Sticks Prophecy, they become ONE STICK !! The 12 Tribes were NEVER LOST Brother. God will bring us back with him from Heaven then he will start a Kingdom and RULE amongst the Jews on earth, NOW THINK.....Here is where you have been getting off kilter........THINK NOW........Why do you think the Jews on earth are going to be TRANSLATED from their earthly bodies all of the sudden? They are not going to be translated to NEW BODIES like we were at the Rapture, they are going to still live on earth, with Jesus as their King for 1000 years, having babies, etc. etc. living in Sin Nature but not sinning. With Satan locked up, their continual desire is to serve the Lord God, there are no WILLFUL SINS when Jesus is the King of Kings, only sins of OMISSION. Like something we failed to do, no one will DESIRE EVIL in those days, the Lamb lies down with the Wolf. We (THEY in reality) might sin by not doing this or that when we should and we had a SELFISH MOTIVATION to go see a Movie, BUT......no one will desire to watch porn, to murder others, etc. etc. etc. 

So why would they {I will be coming from Heaven} be gathered as per a Rapture? They are Gathered into the Fathers Barn, in other words, Jesus finally sees Israel as it should have been all along, a Nation of the Living God, a people who love their God, and Jesus then rules from Jerusalem for 1000 years. The only people Judged at the Rev. 20:4 Judgment Seat are the MARTYRS who died during the 70th week, mostly Gentile Martyrs.

I can explain why the 12 Tribes were NEVER LOST.

Alright, Butter Pecan Ice Cream time.........ole lady is gonna get me !!

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Revelation Man

[The Light]

59 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

 

 

Alright, Butter Pecan Ice Cream time.........ole lady is gonna get me !!

 

First, you should be commended for the speed of your response.

I will respond in time. Still have another before this.

Second, Butter Pecan is my favorite. I used to stop at Braums and get the Butter Pecan Mix. MMMMMM. Have to limit my ice cream intake. It's a special treat for me.

Don't over do it. lol

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Will be?  Will be?  

What you posted is incompatible with Revelation 1:v.1, whose VERSE speaks of the time of the future, EXCLUSIVELY future, consequently, it is discordant or incoherent with the things that God gave unto JESUS, to shew unto His servants THINGS WHICH MUST COME TO PASS; and He sent and signified it by His angel:

Revelation 1:1:  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants THINGS WHICH MUST COME TO PASS; and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John:    - and unto us too, EVIDENTLY -

You are wrong, as usual. God did NOT have John write of ONLY things which must come to pass. Stop changing this book. It is correct as is written. God did say ONLY things future, but you wish to add it. God KNEW He would have John write of things in the past, so you are simply mistaken. May I suggest more study and less writing?

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

First, you should be commended for the speed of your response.

I will respond in time. Still have another before this.

Second, Butter Pecan is my favorite. I used to stop at Braums and get the Butter Pecan Mix. MMMMMM. Have to limit my ice cream intake. It's a special treat for me.

Don't over do it. lol

Wow! Just had Haagen Dazs Butter Pecan!

[Revelation Man]

14 hours ago, The Light said:

How is it possible that you cannot grasp that the are Jews all over the world, additionally there are Jews in the nation of Israel. The Jews in the nation of Israel are the 1/3 that and the 2/3 that don't. These have nothing to do with the remnant seed of the woman. The remnant seed of the woman comes from the 12 tribes that are across the earth that have had their blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

 

I will say it for the last time, you are WRONG, this is about the Remnant Church, the Remnant of the SEED which is Jesus Christ. If you can't get it, then you will have to learn it in heaven. It seems you have a barrier on this understanding on earth, its called a STIFF NECK..... JK.

14 hours ago, The Light said:

No, I do not get that. The seals are the tribulation and the 70th week of Daniel. The covenant begins the week, and then the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

 

Now go read Daniel 9:24-27, not understanding this will lead to not getting the End Time TIMING'S in sync.

Part of verse 26 because this is how it should go, if divided in verses..............

Dan. 9:26....................................26 and the people {70 AD Romans} of the prince that shall come {Anti-Christ.} shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he {Anti-Christ} shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The COMING Anti-Christ, who will be a European, will CONFIRM an Agreement with MANY [Nations] for 7 Years and in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK, which is at the 3.5 year mark, like I have been telling you, he RENEGES on these Agreements AND causes the Sacrifice/Oblation to CEASE....Notice this verse also says Oblation? That is a HUGE FIND for me to rediscover this verse just now has Oblation because that which is STOPPED is Jesus Worship by the Jews who have Repented. Oblation means to pay tribute to THE SACRIFICE, if you are actually sacrificing there would be no need for an Oblation per se.

Anyway, all this clearly happens in the MIDDLE of the WEEK !! Not at the beginning sir !! The White Horse is the First Seal, THE Anti Christ, he's NOT Conquering while the Agreements/Covenants are intact. The Seal is about the AC going forth to Conquer, not about signing the Agreements.

14 hours ago, The Light said:

The Jews that are across the earth are raptured. The Jews in the nation of Israel stay and go through the wrath of God.

 

The ONLY Jews Raptured are the Jews in the Church of Christ who go to be with the Lord when the Church does.

14 hours ago, The Light said:

Rev 14 has nothing to do with the Jews at Petra. The Jews that could be at Petra go through the wrath of God in a place of protection. The Jews you see in Rev 14 are of the scattered 12 tribes. We see 144,000 1st fruits which is a guarantee of a harvest. Do some research on the meaning of 1st fruits. If you have 144,000 1st fruits, from the 12 tribes, you will have a rapture of the 12 tribes. That is the gathering of Matt 24. It is the harvest that you see at the end of Rev 14, BEFORE the wrath of God begins. It is the harvest that occurs BEFORE the great multitude, when Jesus comes in Rev 6.

 

If they are GATHERED into the Fathers Barn where are the Gathered from? The Petra/Bozrah area. Its called reasoned logistics of God's word, by me. So, of course, the Harvest chapter has to do with Petra, that is why the Jews are being PROTECTED thus where they must be GATHERED/Harvested from. There are no scattered 12 lost tribes, let's just get that out of the way, God will call all the Jews back to Israel before this event, save a FRACTION. Even the nonbelieving Jews will see they need to go back to Israel in order to be safe, there is no Church in the world at this time if you think Hitlers 1930's were bad on Jews leading up to the 40's you can multiply that by 100. 

The 144,000 are the 1/3 who REPENT, its a Metaphor in a book of Metaphors !! The Firstfruits simply mean the Jews were the First-fruits of Gods plan to reach mankind. Of Course, the Jews brought us, fellowship, with God. God's First Bride was Israel. The Gentile Church was the Second Bride.

14 hours ago, The Light said:

Let me ask you something brother. Have you heard the things that I am saying before. I don't know what you are talking about as far as following men's traditions. I don't see others saying that there will be a pretrib rapture of the Church and a prewrath rapture of the 12 tribes. Here's the problem. I can follow exactly what you say, as I've heard it all before, and I know why it's wrong. You don't really understand these things. 1) The 1st 6 seals are the 70th week of Daniel. 2) The tribulation and the wrath of God are not in the same time frame. 3. The coming of Matt 24 is not the second coming. 4) The wrath of God starts when the 7th seal opened AND when the vials are poured out. The vials are just another view of the trumpets. WE CAN PROVE ALL THESE THINGS. 5) The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet and it is over at the 7th vial. There is much more but this should suffice.

Yes, I have heard all these variants, the problem is you are RIGHT on most of the issues and WRONG only on the TIMING. Which ultimately makes you wrong, let me show you what I mean. If you tell me the Yankees are the Best baseball team in the whole world, you would be right over the whole history of baseball, but they are not the best team at this moment. You are right on many issues, but your timing doesn't fit because you aren't seeing the events in a proper perspective. You have to understand first and foremost HOW IMPORTANT the 1260 Conquering of Jerusalem Event is, like I told you a week or so ago. It's in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK when the Anti-Christ GORES FORTH to Conquer. That is the FIRST SEAL, not getting this timing right will cause one to not be able to grasp end-time events properly.

I have seen it all before, those who infer the RCC is the Beast/Harlot, those who do the same with Islam etc. Those who think the Seals were opened 2000 years ago and those who think the Seals are opened at the beginning of the week etc. Men's Traditions are what the Pharisees followed, and what many in the Church follow today. Its THINGS LEARNED and PASSED DOWN by tradition. Like the 144,000 being Preachers, {not saying you think this, just an observation} there is not ONE PLACE in Revelation that calls the 144,000 preachers, yet that was a GREAT TRADITION growing up in the Church. The 144,000 are not Preachers, they are the Fleeing Jews. NOWHERE are they described as FIRED UP PREACHERS of the Gospel.....go find it, I dare anyone to try to !! 

I just proved your thesis wrong on the 7 Seals being 7 years. Daniel 9:26-27 shows us it happens in the MIDDLE of the Week. There will be no Rapture of the Jews unless they are Raptured pre Trib with the Church. And yes, just because people follow Men's Traditions in some cases doesn't mean the same people can't go off on wild tangents also. Believe me, that is a trait, they follow each other's ways, and one of those ways is to have some TWEAKS that are their ideas all alone. The Church of Christ should all be in SYNC, because the Spirit leads us unto ONENESS !!

The Vials ARE NOT another view of the Trumpets, you know why you get this ? You can't/don't grasp/understand the TIMING brother. Go read Rev. 8:13 and tell me what it says.....it says the Last Three Trumps ARE the THREE WOES !! Have you ever thought about that? It means the 1st Woe = the 5th Trump, the 2nd Woe = the 6th Trump AND the 3rd Woe = the 7th Trump which makes the 3rd Woe the 7 Vials. This is why in Rev. 11 when the 7th Trump blows Jesus WINS !! Its the EXACT SAME EVENT as Rev. 16 and the 7 Vials, because the 7 Vials = the 3rd Woe which is the 7th Trumpet !! 

We agree, the Wrath of God can't come until the 7th Seal is opened, but that happens in the MIDDLE of the week, we know this because the Jews need Protection for only 1260 days, not 2520 days..........IT ALL REVOLVES AROUND Daniel 12:7-13 like I told you, the 1260 EVENT !! It's the most important Prophetic uttering as per understanding end-time events !!

God Bless brother.....

Edited March 28, 2020 by Revelation Man

[XRose]

4 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

 

'Right. One of the two men which went on to Sodom and Gomorrah was Michael, and he was in the house of Abraham really. He is a warrior of the LORD.'

How do you draw that inference?   The two angels were just two of the millions GOD has available to carry out His orders.

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

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I will say it for the last time, you are WRONG, this is about the Remnant Church, the Remnant of the SEED which is Jesus Christ. If you can't get it, then you will have to learn it in heaven. It seems you have a barrier on this understanding on earth, its called a STIFF NECK..... JK.

LOL. What you call a barrier, I call understanding. Why does God say I don't know you to the foolish virgins? Why does God say He will come in an hour that you think not? What happens when He comes and finds the servant not doing what is expected?

Matt 24

⁵¹ And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

Does that sound like those that are not ready when He comes are going to be some kind of Remnant Church. No. The remnant is the seed of the woman. That is the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. The things that you are saying about the Remnant Church are not correct, as proven by the Word of God.

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Now go read Daniel 9:24-27, not understanding this will lead to not getting the End Time TIMING'S in sync.

Part of verse 26 because this is how it should go, if divided in verses..............

Dan. 9:26....................................26 and the people {70 AD Romans} of the prince that shall come {Anti-Christ.} shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

Talk about the traditions of men. I don't know how many times I've heard the Romans. Let's fix that.

Dan. 9:26....................................26 and the people {The people of the King of the North that will destroy the third temple} of the prince that shall come {The 7th King} shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

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27 And he {Anti-Christ} shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The week is the 70th week of Daniel.

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The COMING Anti-Christ, who will be a European, will CONFIRM an Agreement with MANY [Nations] for 7 Years

No, the coming 7th king, who will be a King of the North, will confirm an agreement for 7 years.

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and in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK, which is at the 3.5 mark, like I have been telling you, he RENEGES on these Agreements, AND causes the Sacrifice/Oblation to CEASE....Notice this verse also say Oblation?

In the midst of the week, DAY 1185 he causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease.

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That is a HUGE FIND for me to rediscover this verse just now has Oblation, because that which is STOPPED is Jesus Worship by the Jews who have Repented. Oblation means to pay tribute to THE SACRIFICE, if you are actually sacrificing there would be no need for an Oblation per se.

They are not worshiping Jesus in the Temple. They are burning a sacrifice to God as they did in the past. Blindness is only partly removed from Israel at the time of the fullness of the Gentiles coming in. The nation of Israel does not have their blindness removed at this time. They go through the wrath of God. Their blindness will be removed after the wrath of God begins. However, the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth will have their blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and will be caught up prewrath. Which is proven by the 1st fruits 144,000. There will be a harvest, and it will be the 12 tribes.

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Anyway, all this clearly happens in the MIDDLE of the WEEK !! Not at the beginning sir !!

I never said that the sacrifice will be ceased at the beginning of the week. I said the covenant will be confirmed at the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel. The rider on the white horse then goes forth conquering and to conquer. The sacrifice is ceased on Day 1185, which is in the midst of the week.

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The white Horse is the First Seal, THE Anti Christ,

The white horse is the 7th king, a King of the North. There are 8 kings.

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hes NOT Conquering while the Agreements/Covenants are in tact.

You got your shoe horn out again, forcing things to fit where they do not go. The word says the 1st seal is opened and the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

Rev 6

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

² And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

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The Seal is about the AC going forth to Conquer, not about signing the Agreements.

The seal is about a King of the North going forth conquering and to conquer. The confirming of the covenant merely begins the week. On day 1185 the sacrifice is ceased.

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The ONLY Jews Raptured are the Jews in the Church of Christ who go to be with the Lord when the Church does.

I'm afraid that you do not understand Gods plan. Do you really think God is not going to keep His word?

John 10

¹⁶ And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

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If they are GATHERED into the Fathers Barn where are the Gathered from ? The Petra/Bozrah area.

They are gathered from the world. Your logic is wrong. The 1/3 that are protected through the wrath of God, stay on earth. They are not gathered into the barn. The gathering occurs at the end of the 70th week, not the end of the wrath of God.

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Its called reasoned logistics of God's word, by me. So of course the Harvest chapter has to do with Petra, that is why the Jews are being PROTECTED thus where they must be GATHERED/Harvested from.

Sorry brother, but the Jews that are protected through the wrath of God are not harvested at this time. Instead they remain on the earth.

Those in the harvest, The twelve tribes across the earth are harvested BEFORE the wrath of God. Here we see at the end of the harvest, the wrath of God BEGINS.

Rev 14

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

It's the same harvest we see in Rev 6, just before the wrath of God begins.

It's the same harvest we see in Matt 24, just before the wrath of God begins.

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There are no scattered 12 tribes, lets just get that out of the way, God will call all the Jews back to Israel before this event, save a FRACTION. Even the non believing Jews will see they need to go back to Israel in order to be safe, there is no Church in the world at this time, if you think Hitlers 1930's were bad on Jews leading up to the 40's you can multiply that by 100. 

There are Jews all over. To start off, go to NY. Yeah, you get the idea about Hitler, and that's why the days are cut short. If they were not cut short, there would be not flesh saved. (No flesh would receive salvation through the pre wrath rapture). They would all be dead.

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The 144,000 are the 1/3 who REPENT, its a Metaphor in a book of Metaphors !! The First fruits simply mean the Jews were the First-fruits of Gods plan to reach mankind. Of Course the Jews brought us fellowship with God.

Why not just take God at His word? It all fits together perfectly if you would only accept what God says and put things where God says they go, instead of grabbing your shoe horn to get that shoe that doesn't fit in place.

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God's First Bride was Israel. The Gentile Church was the Second Bride.

Exactly, and that is why there will be a harvest of the Church, pretrib and a harvest of the Jew across the earth (NOT THOSE IN THE NATION OF ISRAEL). Here is why the Church will be raptured 1st.

Hos 9

¹⁰ I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

God saw the fathers of the Jews as the 1st ripe in the fig tree at her 1st time. (The fig tree has two harvests. Hmmm). So God saw the Jews fathers as the first fruits of the 1st harvest, but they served other gods. Since the Jews served other gods, the Jews would NOT be the 1st harvest. They will be the second harvest, and that will be a pre wrath harvest.

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Yes, I have heard all these variants, the problem is you are RIGHT on most of the issues and WRONG only on the TIMING.

I have never run across them. Not saying they are not there, I just don't see this posted. And I am right on the timing as it can be PROVEN. As I said, I already know the things that your are posting. Nothing you have posted, except the scriptural backup to the Petra Bozrah, has taken me unaware. Of course I have heard the Petra idea, just didn't know where the Biblical support was. I understand why the things that you are posting are wrong.

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Which ultimately makes you wrong, let me show you what I mean. If you tell me the Yankees are the Best baseball team in the whole world, you would be right over the whole history of baseball, but they are not the best team at this moment. You are right on  many issues, but your timing doesn't fit because you aren't seeing the events in proper perspective. You have to understand first and foremost HOW IMPORTANT the 1260 is, like I told you a week or so ago. Its the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK when the Anti-Christ GORES FORTH to Conquer. That is the FIRST SEAL, not getting this timing right will cause one to not be able to grasp end time events properly.

The rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer at the beginning of the week, after the 1st seal is opened. He is the 7th king. Are you forgetting that there is an 8th king? Where's he gonna fit in your timeline. Problems?

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I have seen it all before, those who infer the RCC is the Beast/Harlot, those who do the same with Islam etc. Those who think the Seals were opened 2000 years ago and those who think the Seals are opened at the beginning of the week etc. Men's Traditions are what the Pharisees followed, and what many in the Church follow today. Its THINGS LEARNED and PASSED DOWN by tradition. Like the 144,000 being Preachers, {not saying you think that, just an observation} there is not ONE PLACE in Revelation that calls the 144,000 preachers, yet that was a GREAT TRADITION growing up in the Church. The 144,000 are not Preachers, they are the Fleeing Jews. NOWHERE are they described as FIRED UP PREACHERS of the Gospel.....go find it, I dare anyone to try to !! 

The 144,000 are FIRST FRUITS. First fruits are a guarantee of a harvest. There will be a harvest of the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth because the Father found the first fruits acceptable and redeemed them from the earth.

Rev 14

³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

⁴ These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

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I just proved your thesis wrong on the 7 Seals being 7 years

The 6 seals are the 70th week, the tribulation period, the 70th week of Daniel. Then the 7th seal is open and the wrath of God begins. That lasts for a time, times and half a time, 1260 days. There is a difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God. You have not proven anything.

Stay off the ice cream today.

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[The Light]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

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 Daniel 9:26-27 shows us it happens in the MIDDLE of the Week.

Daniel 9:27 shows us the the sacrifice is ceased in the midst of the week. That day is day 1185.

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There will be no Rapture of the Jews unless they are Raptured pre Trib with the Church.

The Word says differently and the 1st fruits 144,000 are proof of that coming harvest. As you said, there are two brides.

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And yes, just because people follow Men;s Traditions in some cases don't mean the same people can't go off on wild tangents also. Believe me, that is a trait, they follow each others ways, and one of those ways is to have some TWEAKS that are all theirs alone. The Church of Christ should all be in SYNC, because the Spirit leads us unto ONENESS !!

You say the remnant of the seed of the woman is the Church that was not ready when the bridegroom came. The Word says you are incorrect. You say that Matt 24 is the second coming. The Word says that it is the gathering that occurs prior to the wrath of God. Put away your shoe horn, trying to make things fit where they don't go. Put things where God says they go it it all fits perfectly. You can't see that because of your shoe horn.

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The Vials ARE NOT another view of the Trumpets, you know why you get this ?

Yes I do, and if you knew where I got it, you would put your shoe horn away and put things EXACTLY where God says they go.

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You can't/don't grasp/understand the TIMING brother. Go read Rev. 8:13 and tell me what it says.....it says the Last Three Trumps ARE the the THREE WOES !! Have you ever thought about that ? It means the 1st Woe = the 5th Trump, the 2nd Woe = the 6th Trump AND the 3rd Woe = the 7th Trump which makes the 3rd Woe the 7 Vials. This is why in Rev. 11 when the 7th Trump blows Jesus WINS !! Its the EXACT SAME EVENT as Rev. 16 and the 7 Vials, because the 7 Vials = the 3rd Woe which is the 7th Trumpet !! 

The word says when the 7th angel BEGINS to sound, the mystery of God is finished. It does not say when the 7th angel begins to sound, hold on to your hats, there are 7 vials coming.

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

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We agree, the Wrath of God can't come until the 7th Seal is opened,

Sweet, got something to build on.

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but that happens in the MIDDLE of the week, we know this because the Jews need Protection for only 1260 days, not 2520 days

Again. The 70th week is 2520 days long. The sacrifice is ceased on day 1185. The Abomination of Desolation occurs 1290 days later on day 2475. That begins the great tribulation which is 45 days long. Then the Lord returns for the gathering from heaven and earth. The 70th week is OVER. Then the wrath of God begins which is time, times and half a time, 1260 days long. See Matt 24, Rev 6, Daniel 12, Rev 14.

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..........IT ALL REVOLVES AROUND Daniel 12:7-13 like I told you, the 1260 EVENT !! Its the most important Prophetic uttering as per understanding end time events !!

Exactly, it all revolves around time, times and half a time, 1260 days. That is the wrath of God.

Dan 12

⁷ And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

But what happens before the 1260 days?

Dan 12

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

We can tell there is war in heaven. We can tell the abomination of desolation has been set up and we can tell Christ has shown up because we see a harvest. This occurs before the 1260 days.

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God Bless brother.....

And you brother.

 

[XRose]

A TRUE Christian needn't be concerned about the Last Days as if they die during Tribulation or are raptured at the moment Jesus appears they are guaranteed being on Earth with Jesus when the dust settles.

The Jews, Catholics, Muslims and all other pagans are the ones to be worrried about The Return of Jesus.

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by XRose
spelling

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

LOL. What you call a barrier, I call understanding. Why does God say I don't know you to the foolish virgins? Why does God say He will come in an hour that you think not? What happens when He comes and finds the servant not doing what is expected?

Matt 24

⁵¹ And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

Does that sound like those that are not ready when He comes are going to be some kind of Remnant Church. No. The remnant is the seed of the woman. That is the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. The things that you are saying about the Remnant Church are not correct, as proven by the Word of God.

Again, citing scriptures when you have the TIMING CONFUSED avails nothing in the end because you are confusing the Rapture and the Second Coming. Citing scriptures about the Rapture then pointing to the Second coming is not going to work out no matter how many times you try and cite them.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Talk about the traditions of men. I don't know how many times I've heard the Romans. Let's fix that.

Dan. 9:26....................................26 and the people {The people of the King of the North that will destroy the third temple} of the prince that shall come {The 7th King} shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Again, the Temple was Destroyed in 70 AD......The people {Romans/Europeans} of the the prince {Anti-Christ} that SHALL COME {2000 years later during the 70th week Prophecy} shall destroy the Temple [in 70 AD]. The PROPHECY lasts from 500 some odd years BC till Jesus' death, and there was ONE WEEK LEFT in the Prophecy, you aren't denying this right? So the Prophecy STRETCHES from 500 BS to Jesus..............the temple is destroyed and then.............2000 years later the Anti-Christ fulfills the final Prophetic uttering's of the 70 weeks Prophecy.

That is of God, not men. 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The week is the 70th week of Daniel.

 

It is Jeremiah's Prophecy. Daniel was reading the book of Jeremiah when Gabriel visited him.

Daniel 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans. 2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. 3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: {{{{ We know that Gabriel shows up later on here........ suffice it to say. }}}} it is indeed the 70th week, in the END TIMES.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

No, the coming 7th king, who will be a King of the North, will confirm an agreement for 7 years.

 

Yes, hes born in Greece which is in the European Union. Read Dan. 8.

Dan. 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

So he comes out of the Northwest !! He travels SOUTH....EAST and towards Israel, so he comes out of the Northwest !! Greece !! Europe. {Cassander}

Only Greece resides in the FOURTH BEAST thus only Greece can be the area where he arises from, because he has to ARISE out of both Kingdoms at the SAME TIME.........The Fourth Beasts Head AND One of the Four Generals Kingdoms. 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

In the midst of the week, DAY 1185 he causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease.

 

He "CAUSES" like Hitler CAUSED concessions by threatening invasion, England and France returned land won from Germany in WW2 and the even gave in to other demands. The 1185 makes no sense when we understand he doesn't go forth Conquering until the 1260, UNLESS he does it like Hitler did, BEHIND THE SCENES. And that is exactly what happens brother. Who could cause this EVENT YOU CITE as the 1185 {its actually the 1230}  to come to pass if its not {and its not} the Anti-Christ bringing it to pass at the 1230 {1290} ? Well who is over the Temple {when its built} ? The High Priest of Israel, that's who.

The High Priest of Israel will be the FALSE PROPHET and Rev. 13 tells us the Beast out of the earth/land causes..CAUSES..all men to worship the Beast or DIE. So the False Prophet at the 1290 which happens on day 1230 out of 2520 days LEAVING 1290 days until THESE WONDERS END at the Second Coming. The 1335 which happens on day 1185 out of 2520 days is the BLESSING or when the Two-witnesses show up. 

The Anti-Christ is not doing anything BEFORE the 1260 event, and Israel could not flee 30 days AFTER the beast takes over !! 

The False Prophet and Anti-Christ have TYPES in Antiochus and Jason whom Antiochus APPOINTED as High Priest, and Jason tried to Hellenize the Jews, leading to the Maccabean Revolt.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

They are not worshiping Jesus in the Temple. They are burning a sacrifice to God as they did in the past. Blindness is only partly removed from Israel at the time of the fullness of the Gentiles coming in. The nation of Israel does not have their blindness removed at this time. They go through the wrath of God. Their blindness will be removed after the wrath of God begins. However, the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth will have their blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and will be caught up prewrath. Which is proven by the 1st fruits 144,000. There will be a harvest, and it will be the 12 tribes.

 

They will be when they REPENT...........Before the Day of the Lord.........like the bible says they do. Malachi 4:5-6 says they repent BEFORE the DOTL which is the 1260 Event. Zechariah chapters 12, 13 and 14 PROVE they repent BEFORE the Conquering of Israel. Zechariah 12:10 says they MOURN for the one they pierced. Zechariah 13:1 says ON THAT DAY, God opes a FOUNTAIN {Jesus' blood} for SINS & UNCLEANNESS. Zechariah 13:8-9 says 1/3 will REPENT and that 2/3 will not repent and will perish !! THEN.............AFTER ALL THAT WE JUST READ.........THEN......In Zechariah 14:1-2 The Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem. All the zeal in the world without knowledge avail little. So they REPENT BEFORE the DOTL !! Thus they are worshiping Jesus BEFORE the 1260 event which is the DOTL's beginning. 

So whom told you its a MEAT SACRIFICE ? Men's Tradition that's who, once I realized this I knew instinctively God would never mention a PROFANE, EVIL Sacrifice to Daniel via Gabriel, God is speaking about THE SACRIFICE being taken away, thus its a PROFANE ACTION, you can't profane the Temple by taking away an already PROFANE MEAT SACRIFICE !! Come on !!

Israel as a NATION SEES AGAIN. Not every Jew, but enough of them see that God calls them His again. Blindness is gone, Israel will DWELL with God for 1000 years and vice versa. Once again, your TIMING being off cause you not to see what I see. 

2 hours ago, The Light said:

I never said that the sacrifice will be ceased at the beginning of the week. I said the covenant will be confirmed at the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel. The rider on the white horse then goes forth conquering and to conquer. The sacrifice is ceased on Day 1185, which is in the midst of the week.

 

The White Horse is what I was referring as per to you being wrong about........He GOES FORTH in the Middle of the week, not at the beginning.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

The white horse is the 7th king, a King of the North. There are 8 kings.

 

There are 7 Kings the 8th King is Aollyon a Demon who is currently locked in the bottomless pit, hes the Scarlet Colored Beast with NO CROWNS, go take another look, see if you can see any CROWNS in Rev. 17. 

3 hours ago, The Light said:

You got your shoe horn out again, forcing things to fit where they do not go. The word says the 1st seal is opened and the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

Rev 6

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

² And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Which means he RENEGED on his AGREEMENTS which is what Covenant means. So hes not Conquering whilst still pretending to be in AGREEMENT !! Thee Conquering ENDS the agreements !! You don't think the people hes suddenly Conquering are going to still consider the agreements valid do you? 

3 hours ago, The Light said:

You got your shoe horn out again, forcing things to fit where they do not go. The word says the 1st seal is opened and the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

Rev 6

1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

² And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

you can't CONFIRM a Covenant on day 1185, you confirm it on DAY 1 of the 2520 days of the week !! Thus you get 3.5 years a FALSE PEACE followed by 3.5 years of Troubles during the Anti-Christs reign, whilst God's Wrath is also falling.

The King of the North is the European Anti-Christ who MUST be born in Greece and come to power in the E.U.

3 hours ago, The Light said:

I'm afraid that you do not understand Gods plan. Do you really think God is not going to keep His word?

John 10

¹⁶ And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

I didn't say God would not Harvest/Gather the Jews unto His barn. I stated your Rapture idea was in error. Only the Church is Raptured. Jesus raises the Jews up at the VERY END to stand in their lots. After his RETURN !!

3 hours ago, The Light said:

I'm afraid that you do not understand Gods plan. Do you really think God is not going to keep His word?

John 10

¹⁶ And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The 1/3 are PROTECTED the 2/3 will perish. The REMNANT is the Church not the Jews. It ain't changing no time soon.

3 hours ago, The Light said:

Sorry brother, but the Jews that are protected through the wrath of God are not harvested at this time. Instead they remain on the earth.

Those in the harvest, The twelve tribes across the earth are harvested BEFORE the wrath of God. Here we see at the end of the harvest, the wrath of God BEGINS.

Rev 14

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

It's the same harvest we see in Rev 6, just before the wrath of God begins.

It's the same harvest we see in Matt 24, just before the wrath of God begins.

The Jews are not Raptured unless they are a part of the Church/Bride. They are raised at the end. no one is Harvested in Rev. 6, bad understanding.

3 hours ago, The Light said:

Sorry brother, but the Jews that are protected through the wrath of God are not harvested at this time. Instead they remain on the earth.

Those in the harvest, The twelve tribes across the earth are harvested BEFORE the wrath of God. Here we see at the end of the harvest, the wrath of God BEGINS.

Rev 14

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

It's the same harvest we see in Rev 6, just before the wrath of God begins.

It's the same harvest we see in Matt 24, just before the wrath of God begins.

I am not worried about New York now, I understand the coming END TIMES. 

3 hours ago, The Light said:

Exactly, and that is why there will be a harvest of the Church, pretrib and a harvest of the Jew across the earth (NOT THOSE IN THE NATION OF ISRAEL). Here is why the Church will be raptured 1st.

Hos 9

¹⁰ I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

God saw the fathers of the Jews as the 1st ripe in the fig tree at her 1st time. (The fig tree has two harvests. Hmmm). So God saw the Jews fathers as the first fruits of the 1st harvest, but they served other gods. Since the Jews served other gods, the Jews would NOT be the 1st harvest. They will be the second harvest, and that will be a pre wrath harvest.

A harvest doesn't equate to a Rapture however. Only the Church is Raptured. 

3 hours ago, The Light said:

I have never run across them. Not saying they are not there, I just don't see this posted. And I am right on the timing as it can be PROVEN. As I said, I already know the things that your are posting. Nothing you have posted, except the scriptural backup to the Petra Bozrah, has taken me unaware. Of course I have heard the Petra idea, just didn't know where the Biblical support was. I understand why the things that you are posting are wrong.

 

Your timing on the dates have you out of step brother, so much so that I am confused at how you can mix up the dates so easily. 

3 hours ago, The Light said:

Why not just take God at His word? It all fits together perfectly if you would only accept what God says and put things where God says they go, instead of grabbing your shoe horn to get that shoe that doesn't fit in place.

 

Because God/Jesus speaks to us in Riddles and told us why in the Parable of the Wheat and Tares.

3 hours ago, The Light said:

Exactly, and that is why there will be a harvest of the Church, pretrib and a harvest of the Jew across the earth (NOT THOSE IN THE NATION OF ISRAEL). Here is why the Church will be raptured 1st.

Hos 9

¹⁰ I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

God saw the fathers of the Jews as the 1st ripe in the fig tree at her 1st time. (The fig tree has two harvests. Hmmm). So God saw the Jews fathers as the first fruits of the 1st harvest, but they served other gods. Since the Jews served other gods, the Jews would NOT be the 1st harvest. They will be the second harvest, and that will be a pre wrath harvest.

He goes forth in the Middle of the Week....this seems to be a futile  conversation tbh.

3 hours ago, The Light said:

The 144,000 are FIRST FRUITS. First fruits are a guarantee of a harvest. There will be a harvest of the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth because the Father found the first fruits acceptable and redeemed them from the earth.

Rev 14

³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

⁴ These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

They are the Jews who Flee Judea.

3 hours ago, The Light said:

The 6 seals are the 70th week, the tribulation period, the 70th week of Daniel. Then the 7th seal is open and the wrath of God begins. That lasts for a time, times and half a time, 1260 days. There is a difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God. You have not proven anything.

The Seals open the Judgments of God that lasts for 3.5 years. 

God Bless....its nap time.