Struggling With My Faith

[copenhagen]

I've been attending a local church for the past 8-9 years and while it's had it's share of "issues" I've been a pretty loyal member and financial sponsor. I volunteer semi-regularly but it's such a large church I wouldn't say I have many friends particularly close friends at the church. This is one of the larger and better churches in the area, but I'm considering cutting ties with them (not that they care considering it's size). 

1. in speaking with the assistant pastors, I don't often get the impression that they are true pastors. They seem more like underpaid, overworked, stressed out bureaucrats. The majority seem on the verge of burnout. Whenever possible, I avoid them. 

2. finances are an ongoing problem. They are constantly banging the drum for donations. I get that donations are necessary to keep the place operating, but it's like a constant harangue. I recently learned the pastor's wife was appointed to a paid position within the church, so now I realize why the lead pastor were pressing so hard for donations lol. 

My impression is that the larger the church, the more important finances become, to the point that it becomes the ONLY concern. I'm going to withdraw financial support for the time being while I re-assess my options. 

I would be happy to find a new church, perhaps a medium sized church would be preferable. 

 

 

[johnthebaptist]

5 minutes ago, copenhagen said:

I've been attending a local church for the past 8-9 years and while it's had it's share of "issues" I've been a pretty loyal member and financial sponsor. I volunteer semi-regularly but it's such a large church I wouldn't say I have many friends particularly close friends at the church. This is one of the larger and better churches in the area, but I'm considering cutting ties with them (not that they care considering it's size). 

1. in speaking with the assistant pastors, I don't often get the impression that they are true pastors. They seem more like underpaid, overworked, stressed out bureaucrats. The majority seem on the verge of burnout. Whenever possible, I avoid them. 

2. finances are an ongoing problem. They are constantly banging the drum for donations. I get that donations are necessary to keep the place operating, but it's like a constant harangue. I recently learned the pastor's wife was appointed to a paid position within the church, so now I realize why the lead pastor were pressing so hard for donations lol. 

My impression is that the larger the church, the more important finances become, to the point that it becomes the ONLY concern. I'm going to withdraw financial support for the time being while I re-assess my options. 

I would be happy to find a new church, perhaps a medium sized church would be preferable. 

 

 

I don't think a large church necessarily has more financial problems than a small church. Maybe the money isn't being wisely spent, maybe the congregation doesn't, or can't, give enough, or maybe the congregation is shrinking.

[copenhagen]

Fair points. I do believe the church tends to over-extend itself, hoping future donations will cover their costs, rather than taking a more conservative approach and spending only what they have. Part of it is generosity, part wishful thinking, and a lot of their strategy involves banging the drum shamelessly for more and more donations. It's getting tiresome.

Their latest hire in particular is completely ridiculous. He looks more like a bouncer at a shady club than a man of the cloth. Nonetheless, they have appointed him the title of "executive pastor of financial operations" lol. 

Edited February 14, 2020 by copenhagen

[Dennis1209]

19 minutes ago, copenhagen said:

I've been attending a local church for the past 8-9 years and while it's had it's share of "issues" I've been a pretty loyal member and financial sponsor. I volunteer semi-regularly but it's such a large church I wouldn't say I have many friends particularly close friends at the church. This is one of the larger and better churches in the area, but I'm considering cutting ties with them (not that they care considering it's size). 

1. in speaking with the assistant pastors, I don't often get the impression that they are true pastors. They seem more like underpaid, overworked, stressed out bureaucrats. The majority seem on the verge of burnout. Whenever possible, I avoid them. 

2. finances are an ongoing problem. They are constantly banging the drum for donations. I get that donations are necessary to keep the place operating, but it's like a constant harangue. I recently learned the pastor's wife was appointed to a paid position within the church, so now I realize why the lead pastor were pressing so hard for donations lol. 

My impression is that the larger the church, the more important finances become, to the point that it becomes the ONLY concern. I'm going to withdraw financial support for the time being while I re-assess my options. 

I would be happy to find a new church, perhaps a medium sized church would be preferable. 

 

 

Matthew 18:20 (KJV) For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

I would consider what Jesus said above to be a church. Far be it from me to criticize your church or you or offer advice, other than to point out a few things. I think many of us have been in the same boat so to speak.

As you mentioned; the church needs tithes and offerings to function, pay salaries, the bills and expand its programs, missionaries and community outreach. Is a church intended to be stagnate or grow? Neither us nor a church can expand or plan much without a dependable and stable source of income [tithes and offerings]. Pastor's have an awesome responsibility to the Lord and their congregations, they are held accountable to a higher standard and responsibility by the Lord.

Needless to say; pastors spend a lot of time preparing for their sermons, church activities, attending congregation needs such as; visiting the sick, shut ins, members of the community, retirement, convalescent and old folk homes, conducting funerals of loved ones, getting called up in the middle of the night because a church member had a heart attack or head on automobile collision and wasn't expected to live. Most pastors are vested spiritually and emotionally with their congregations and their brothers and sisters in Christ. It doesn't leave them a whole lot of time to spend with their families or to relax and unwind, they're as human as you and I with the same potential problems. They too need adequate vacation time, time off to be with their family, go on vacation and relax.

With a big church, it stands to reason a pastor and his assistant(s) can't spend quality time with each and every member / attendee that he would like to. That awesome responsibility, emotional investment, listening to church members marital and blushing private problems with counseling, and personal burdens incurred; I would think that's a leading cause of "burn out" and frequently happens. 

Is your church preaching the Gospel truth, does everything center around the Person of Jesus Christ and what He did for us, does their theology and doctrines align with Bible scripture? If so, I personally would consider it a blessing from God. As so many churches in the recent past have conformed to political correctness, preach the prosperity Gospel, condone and support things the Lord calls an abominations, preach replacement theology, etc.

Have you taken a look at the 'big picture'? 

[copenhagen]

Good points, Dennis. For the most part yes, the lead pastor sticks to scripture. He'll occasionally delve into some of the more controversial aspects of gospel, but I've seen people walk out in these instances. He has to be careful or else he risks a drop in attendance and donations.

The pastor's wife has taken on a more prominent role this past year. It seems like almost all of her assistants and co-instructors and staff she works with are women, I'm afraid it's taking on a quasi-feminist vibe. It concerns me. I might be overly concerned, but it's a suspicion at this point.

I'm guessing the church will be forced to become more politically correct and will de-emphasize (ignore?) controversial aspects of christian teaching in order to pay it's considerable expenditures. 

I've never sought counseling from this church. I don't know how it could be of high quality. Not from the pastors anyway. They are stretched too thin as it is. Several of them don't handle stressful situations well, but otherwise are hard workers and devoted to the church. They are doing everything that's required and then some, but not very gracefully or with tact. 

Real world problems.

In all honesty, I'm very ready to leave this church. The pastry and coffee breakfast is still a big draw though. Yeah I said it. 

[john1]

1 hour ago, copenhagen said:

finances are an ongoing problem.

Luke chapter 12 verse 15

Then he said to them, "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions."
 

A lot of pastors quote malachi chapter 3 they miss malachi chapter 2

malachi chapter 2 verse 7

⁷ “For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the Lord Almighty and people seek instruction from his mouth.

I don't find pastors who know the bible good enough to satisfy me.

[Blood Bought 1953]

I have this theory that the underlying problem could be with the Message being preached.Are the Preachers preaching religion under the guise of Christianity or are they preaching The Gospel Of Grace and LIVING it?When I am exposed to Preachers that preach Jesus Plus Nothing and Salvation by the Pure Grace Of God— One would have to forcibly “ hold me back” from giving. God  desires  “ hilarious” givers, those that give from the heart .A Heart Of  Love and Gratitude.Not Those who give begrudgedly.May as well keep the money in your pocket.If a church can’t pay its bills because they have no “ cheerful” givers— let it fall. The problem is NOT with the people —- there is something wrong with the Message.More than likely, a Legalistic, Accursed Gospel is being taught by a “ SELF- Chosen” Preacher as opposed to a “ GOD-Chosen” Preacher.Just my theory, but I think it’s a good one.

[Coliseum]

21 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

I have this theory that the underlying problem could be with the Message being preached.Are the Preachers preaching religion under the guise of Christianity or are they preaching The Gospel Of Grace and LIVING it?When I am exposed to Preachers that preach Jesus Plus Nothing and Salvation by the Pure Grace Of God— One would have to forcibly “ hold me back” from giving. God  desires  “ hilarious” givers, those that give from the heart .A Heart Of  Love and Gratitude.Not Those who give begrudgedly.May as well keep the money in your pocket.If a church can’t pay its bills because they have no “ cheerful” givers— let it fall. The problem is NOT with the people —- there is something wrong with the Message.More than likely, a Legalistic, Accursed Gospel is being taught by a “ SELF- Chosen” Preacher as opposed to a “ GOD-Chosen” Preacher.Just my theory, but I think it’s a good one.

I am always reminded of the pastor who shared with his congregation one holiday, standing-only evening how he had loved them for the past 35 years and who knew they loved him, who went to the prisons and "set the captives" free, who prayed at the hospitals for the sick, and who adopted a dozen or so abused children---and then, in that same breath, announced the most astonishing thing I had ever heard: "But tonight, I stand here and tell you I am saved." Is it possible? Yeah, I think so. Two months ago, you preached on grace, and I heard you, and that is when my heart changed. I think that there are many that without understanding, believe with every right intention they are saved. But in the end, no man is unless it is from God. So you could be right; it may be the message---preached by a preacher who humbly believes he is saved. We are priests, yet we are burdened with telling the truth---even to them; God knows which of them will hear it. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Coliseum

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

....I heard somewhere that John Wesley realized and confessed  that he had been preaching for many years before he became Saved.....he is not alone .....