one.opinion Posted May 3, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, enoob57 said: According to Scripture death and curse began at the fall and that is why I say evolution is not compatible with the Scriptures.... Let’s have a look at those scriptures in full context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 3, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,229 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,485 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Just now, one.opinion said: Let’s have a look at those scriptures in full context. Rom 5:14-15 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted May 3, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 25 minutes ago, enoob57 said: 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. Would you agree that the free gift in verse 15 is eternal life? The rest of Romans 15 supports this conclusion: 16 And the gift is not like the one man’s sin, because from one sin came the judgment, resulting in condemnation, but from many trespasses came the gift, resulting in justification.[e] 17 If by the one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive the overflow of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. 18 So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one righteous act there is justification leading to life for everyone. 19 For just as through one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 The law came along to multiply the trespass. But where sin multiplied, grace multiplied even more 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace will reign through righteousness, resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. We know that this eternal life (that we receive through faith in Jesus Christ alone) is not meant for our physical bodies, but speaks about a spiritual realm of reality. This physical existence is transient and dust in the wind that we will one day be rid of when we our time in this realm is finished. I believe it is appropriate to conclude that the death described in verse 14 is also of a spiritual level, because it is leading up to the discussion of life on a spiritual level. I further believe it is inappropriate to assume that teaching on spiritual life and death should confirm idea of physical life/death at the initiation of God's creation. When we look at the whole context of Romans 5, we see a very different story being told. I will not pretend that I know this for a fact, but it seems like the most clear interpretation of Romans 5 to me. But... If I'm wrong, this still does not support the idea that other living organisms never died before Adam's sin. Please explain why you find these 2 arguments to be in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 3, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,229 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,485 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 3, 2020 God does not sanctify death as it was used for judgment against sin... Gen 2:1-3 2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. KJV now for you to remain where you are you must say that God sanctified death when He alone is life and there is no death in Him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted May 3, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.52 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted May 3, 2020 To answer the OP--No, I do not think it is tenable. There are a great many reasons for this, but one of them is 'kind'. Everything after its own 'kind'. This is a fundamental of God's Creation and has very important spiritual connections. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted May 3, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Alive said: To answer the OP--No, I do not think it is tenable. There are a great many reasons for this, but one of them is 'kind'. Everything after its own 'kind'. This is a fundamental of God's Creation and has very important spiritual connections. “Kind” is a rather ambiguous term with no way to precisely define it. There is certainly no Biblical reason to assume that kinds cannot change over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted May 3, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 2 hours ago, enoob57 said: God does not sanctify death as it was used for judgment against sin... If the death punishment is a spiritual one (which I argue is most consistent with Romans 5), then there is no reason why physical death could not be sanctified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 3, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,229 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,485 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 3, 2020 24 minutes ago, one.opinion said: If the death punishment is a spiritual one (which I argue is most consistent with Romans 5), then there is no reason why physical death could not be sanctified. You cannot put death of any form with God John 14:6-7 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. KJV Oh you can do it ... just not Biblically! Spiritual death is separation from God and physical death is part of the curse of God upon His Creation.... John 1:1-4 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. KJV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted May 3, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.52 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted May 3, 2020 25 minutes ago, one.opinion said: “Kind” is a rather ambiguous term with no way to precisely define it. There is certainly no Biblical reason to assume that kinds cannot change over time. After its own kind relates to a static condition. The logic applied to what you say means an ape turns human—Adam—this is not what the Creation speaks in multiple ways. Just as He fixed the heavenly bodies in their respective circuits, so He fixed every creature in its kind. The types and shadows and illustrations that we learn about CHrist and the New Creation are grounded in that fundamental....and much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted May 3, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.10 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Spiritual death is separation from God and physical death is part of the curse of God upon His Creation.... God is not hesitant to require death. If you review his instructions to the Israelites as they begin to enter the Promised Land, that is quite clear. God never exhibits any difficulty with animal death, either. Psalm 104:21 - The young lions roar for their prey and seek their food from God. We can agree that God's nature did not change due to the Fall. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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