We are still not getting it...... yet.

[Gideon]

1 hour ago, TheBlade said:

Hay Gids.. pray you and your family are blessed. Question.. I saw this I believe from you here "There will be no middle ground here. Goats on the left. Sheep on the right. And God says "Choose.". Not to derail..

How do you see that playing out? From what I read and understand Jesus comes sets foot on the earth and gathers the nations that just came out of the great tribulation. When He says never knew you.. for me they were never saved. Unless you believe the Church goes through the great tribulation. Why say it if it does not apply to us. Thanks

Let me mull on that a bit. LOL. 
 

First, who are those who the Lord spoke to in this manner? After all, they called Him Lord. They cast out devils. And I have to assume at some point they said the salvation prayer. This  makes us very nervous for these guys were truly shocked that they were rejected. They were not trying to fake their way into Heaven. They assumed all was well. It was not. 

I think part of the problem is we see salvation as an event. But the truth is, it is a walk. Initial faith is intended to lead to our good fight of faith, to our being established in the faith, to our enduring to the end, Amen? 

What do we do with the scripture that tells us that IF  we endure to the end we shall be saved. Hey, I thought we WERE saved??  What possible reason would there be for God to EVER put such a scripture in the Bible..... unless of course we are missing something that would explain it. 

Here is a good example. When the children of Israel went into the Promised Land, God told them that He HAD given them the land.... past tense.... done deal. He then tells them to go take the land. Whattt? Lord, why do I have to take it if you have already given it to me? 

Why? Because salvation is a walk. Our faith to get born again is small. God tells us now to grow in faith. But how many have been taught our salvation  is signed, sealed and delivered and thus they rest without taking the land, assuming it is already taken. 

In the end, they are like  the man with one talent who made no gain with it. What happened to that one? Saved or lost? The master had given Him the talent, like the others. but in the end, took back what He had given. Whoa. Initial blessing. No walk. No growth. No reward. 

Here is another. The parable of the sower. Good seed was cast on stoney ground and. on the ground with weeds, right? The same good seed that fell on the good earth. Both sprouted.  But what happened? On the stony ground, there was just surface stiff... no depth. No digging deep. On the weedy ground, the cares of this life choked out the life of the good seed. The result on both. No fruits were produced. 

Was that good seed that sprouted from God Yes, absolutely. In our analogy, was that one saved? Yes. But remember, our salvation is a walk, alive, growing.  Was that man saved at the end? No. Did he "lose" his salvation? From his perspective, maybe. From God's? He never knew him. 

Does that make sense?

But here is the bigger issue. If this is true, and it is,  where is the security of the believer? If we have a part in our salvation.... not works but continuing in Christ as Christ leads us higher, this terrifies us forc we know us and our penchant to stray.

How can we have real assurance that we are saved today, and will remain on that condition, enduringcall the way to the end?  And this brother is found in the message God has given me to share. You see, when we put off our old nature, reckoning ourselves dead to sin and self, and put on our new natures, the traitor has been cut out of us. Glory!

And as we yield ourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, we are assured that God will CAUSE US to obey Him..... always. 

Can we slip here? Absolutely. Remember little Ai after Jericho? But IF we slip, we get up, we repent and we again hoist up our shield of faith that God has guaranteed will quench ALL the fiery arrows of the enemy. Why did we slip? Our faith in His keeping power was small. But you know what? When we  recover from a slip, and come back  again believing we are new creatures.... our faith GROWS! 

This is the good fight of faith spoken of. To what end? Being established in the faith, rooted on the truth, unshakeable. 

What does this mean for is today? Yes, we are saved, but no we are not safe. And in these last days, God is awakening us to the place of safety He offers us. 

Here is my take on OSAS.

Once safe, always saved. 

When we willingly yield our old man up to God as a sacrifice, hating our carnality and weakness, and obey our God by reckoning it DEAD and no longer us, our traitor is gone. If we are given impenetrable armor, but there is a traitor within, we have no security. None. Right? Ahhhh, but get rid of the traitor, and God does the keeping, not us. SAFE and SAVED. ?

I hope this has not confused you more, lol. 

Gids

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Gideon

[Alive]

You have contradicted yourself. In Christ did we die and rise in New Life or not.

To reckon a thing is not to make it happen. It is to realize that it did.

Past tense. Not reckoning a thing is not the same thing as undoing it.

At times it seems you do not apprehend the work of the Cross, resurrection and ascension.

This is a common error.

[Gideon]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

You have contradicted yourself. In Christ did we die and rise in New Life or not.

To reckon a thing is not to make it happen. It is to realize that it did.

Past tense. Not reckoning a thing is not the same thing as undoing it.

At times it seems you do not apprehend the work of the Cross, resurrection and ascension.

This is a common error.

Indeed we did. But like all things of God, it is according to our faith be it unto us. 

Remember the scripture that tells us "but it did not profit them, not being mixed with faith  in them that heard it"?  We can either willingly believe it to be true that we are dead and our loves are hid with God on Christ, and find real safety, or simply accept it as a fact and remain in our lower nature, which gives great opportunity to satan to lead us astray.c

There is one thing God has asked us to do as our part in salvation. No, it is not working for our salvation, but yes, it is something we MUST do.

What is it? We must believe that new nature is OUR possession and then PUT IT ON. This is the shield ofcfatih and armor that keeps us safe when satan comes tempting because here God does the keeping. He is the one who promises to cause us to obey Him. 

Here we are not only saved, but safe.  Do we not want that? 

blessings, 

Gids

[Gideon]

12 minutes ago, Abby-Joy said:

Just a thought, @Gideon... those who Jesus said, "Depart from me, you who work iniquity, for I never knew you." They began quoting all the works they did in His name. It stands to reason that they had good works (and they should have), but they began to trust in their own goodness rather than trust in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. I think even of Peter's example of getting out of the boat, walking on the water...starting out, eyes on Jesus ...but as soon as his eyes diverted from Jesus, he began to sink. Or Paul's words ..."Having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect in the flesh?"

We can never trust in our own goodness. And yet, we can trust that if we abide in Christ, He will finish the good work He began in us. There should be works that glorify the Father. That's where He's taking us ...but our eyes have to be fixed on Him, we must abide in Christ, and His Words abide in us...endure till the end. Amen. 

I'm really blessed by your posts.

God bless you,

Abby

(PS ...I think I rambled a bit. I hope it made some sense. Haha!) 

I think you hit on  something important. You mentioned that they began to trust in their own works. Does that mean there was a time they did not? They  were saved, but ended up not safe? 

Do you  see this dovetailing in with the importance of putting on the new man. If the traitor, our old nature, is kept alive by our refusal to reckon it dead,  it is entirely  possible to start out well, but end up rebuilding what Jesus destroyed.

Does that make sense? 

I remember an old pastor of mine, when asked if he believer in rhe security of the believer, said this:

"Absolutely! Just stay a believer."

And how can we be assured we will do so  without falling back into a legalistic salvation by works? By our new nature being put on! 

Gideon

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Gideon

[Alive]

7 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Indeed we did. But like all things of God, it is according to our faith be it unto us. 

Remember the scripture that tells us "but it did not profit them, not being mixed with faith  in them that heard it"?  We can either willingly believe it to be true that we are dead and our loves are hid with God on Christ, and find real safety, or simply accept it as a fact and remain in our lower nature, which gives great opportunity to satan to lead us astray.c

There is one thing God has asked us to do as our part in salvation. No, it is not working for our salvation, but yes, it is something we MUST do.

What is it? We must believe that new nature is OUR possession and then PUT IT ON. This is the shield ofcfatih and armor that keeps us safe when satan comes tempting because here God does the keeping. He is the one who promises to cause us to obey Him. 

Here we are not only saved, but safe.  Do we not want that? 

blessings, 

Gids

DO you understand that the Cross is history for a born again saint?

This is important. DO you understand what it means to be ‘In Christ’ of the Father?

[Coliseum]

1 minute ago, Gideon said:

I think you hitvon something important. You mentioned that they began to trust in there own words. 

I see the following when they recited to the Lord all they did.

Again...
"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles"?'

In effect saying, "Look what we did for you. Now, give us what we deserve." Applause. Acclamation. Praise. "Look at our works and our performance. 'Pay us.'"

[Gideon]

27 minutes ago, Coliseum said:

I see the following when they recited to the Lord all they did.

Again...
"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles"?'

In effect saying, "Look what we did for you. Now, give us what we deserve." Applause. Acclamation. Praise. "Look at our works and our performance. 'Pay us.'"

Agreed. But.... did they start out that way? The day they recited the sinners pray, was that their mindset? So, if it was not, and they fell into works, would this sin also not be covered by the blood? 

Something to think about. 

 

And those who did not ever fall into legalism, if they believed, were saved, but did not one thing with that gift, and their faith was simply that initial prayer of faith,  how are they different from the servant who made no gain? 

What was his end? What he had been given was taken back by the master. Therefore, where is the fine line between legalism and using grace but not ever growing in  it? 

Gracec taken for granted is no different than working for ones salvation. Heither one has their heart on closeness to the Father. Our job is to find the sliver of light between the two where we DO have a  part in staying saved, and yet we are promised we will be caused tp do it?  

That sliver of light is called the new creature, and even now, God is beginning to open our eyes to the truth of who we are. Praise you Lord. 

Gids 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Gideon

[Alive]

Can you explain what happened to one who was put into CHrist?

A history lesson.

[Coliseum]

1 minute ago, Gideon said:

Agreed. But.... did they start out that way? The day they recited the sinners pray, was that their mindset? So, if it was not, and they fell into works, would this sin also not be covered by the blood? 

Something to think about. 

Gids

 

ey 

I never accepted "the sinner's prayer," signing a ledger, or waving one's hand as necessarily something attached to one's salvation---although it can be sincere. Many say what they want, but in their heart, do they believe it. One of the most honest things, IMO, I heard recited for us in the Bible was from the father who brought his son to Jesus for healing:  

"But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us." "'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes."
Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!" What an astonishing statement!

He was willing to come to terms---and quickly. Yet impetuous Peter, who walked on water almost drowned because he lost his focus. Did that mean he did not believe?

When we examine what both Mary and Martha said to Jesus concerning Lazarus, both uttered exactly, word for word, the same statement, yet Jesus wept over the words Mary used, and was angry with those same words Martha used: "I am the resurrection." Yet Jesus loved them both with a kind of love he did not have for others. Did Martha not believe? Did she change her mind, as the father of the sick boy did?

So who knows in another man's heart except Jesus what is stored there? Yet, I believe in every one of those situations, they believed, and were saved. Why? Because we are flawed, blemished, and tainted in everything we think, say, and do---and those things change. They are fluid. The only thing that remains the same is change.

 

[Gideon]

Guys, thank you so much for your input. After 10 pages,  I think we have all had an opportunity to express ourselves.

One final thing before I request this post be closed. Regardless of whether or not you see what I am sharing, my words are not spoken to judge or to disparage. What I see, I see, and will not lie about it to get myself off the hot seat. 

My reason for posting is simply to share what God has asked me to share.  I may not do it with  skill, and often may come across in a manner that is not my intent. But I want you to know my purpose is to bless, not to tear down. Sometimes that is a hard place to walk in when seeing the message  requires dissatisfaction with the status quo. Sometimes I overstep my bounds with how I word things and ruffle feathers that are not needing to be ruffled.

So I ask your forgiveness in my presentation, and I look to the Lord to allow me more skillfully and with more kindness share the amazing truth of clothing ourselves with our new nature, giving us full protection from the enemy who never rests.

blessings to all, 

Gideon