Behold Posted April 21, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, iamlamad said: Sorry, I have no problem with God's grace: it is the only way anyone can come to God and be born again. Neither am I at odds with the blood of Christ that took away the sins of the world. What is happening here is you are cherry picking the scriptures and not looking at the other side of the coin. You are trying to make Hebrews Ch 4,6, & 10 teach traditional LEGALISM. I'll tell you what.... If you agree that a born again believer can't lose the Grace of God (their salvation) then you have shown me that you understand Grace. Do you agree that a born again believer can't lose the Grace of God ? (their salvation)? As unless you can admit this, publicly, then you are a proven and called out teacher of Legalism. = Bottom line. And if that is so, then that is why you only look for verses that you can then reconstruct contextually into self saving - Grace denying - Cross rejecting Theology.= (Legalism) So, prove me wrong. Tell me that you believe in Eternal Security and that being born again can not be changed or undone, and that a born again person cannot "lose" the Grace of God (Salvation)... and following that, we can talk more about the NT, np. Let us know. Edited April 21, 2020 by Behold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted April 22, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.86 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2020 14 hours ago, iamlamad said: What you are missing: EVERY born again person gets born again by the grace of God through faith and confession as shown by Paul in Romans 10. Some think that is all there is, but God's word is very plain: we cannot live for the devil after we are born again and hope to live in heaven for eternity. Why do you refuse to believe Paul? We are not allowed to cherry pick scriptures we like and ignore the rest. 1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, If a born again person makes a habit of fornicating, they are a fornicator. Don't think otherwise! If they repent they are covered. If they repent a hundred times they are covered. But it is possible a born again person can get so into sin they just quit repenting. Once we are born again, we are to walk in the Spirit, not live after the flesh. Galatians 5: 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Always know, my friend, there are two sides to every coin. God expects mature Christians to walk by the spirit. Have you never read about God taking people to hell and showing them how real hell is? Some have been allowed to talk with people there. They found out born again people ended up in hell. How could such a thing be? It is simple: they cherry picked the scriptures. Some thought there was a difference between big sins and little sins - as if being a thief was too little of a sin for God to notice. Don't EVER think a born again person that has unforgiveness and is unwilling to let go of it is going to end up in heaven. God has made it clear, if WE don't forgive others, then God is not going to forgive us. This is the other side of the coin. It is what God demands of His born again children. A baby Christian can get away with things a mature Christian cannot. One person can be in sin in one area and get away with it, but another cannot. God looks on the heart. Another thing: God has given us a conscience: it is the voice of our born again spirit. But when God is trying to get us to let go of a sin, many think it is just their conscience bothering them! Imagine that! The Holy Spirit is in the human spirit, so when He speaks, it is to our human spirit, not to our conscious mind. You speak of dangerous: what is dangerous is for a born again believer to live against his or her conscience! This has NOTHING to do with how people GET born again: by faith through faith. It has to do with obeying Jesus who saved us once we ARE born again. I am so weary and frankly, bored , to have to deal with Modern-Day Judaizers That add to Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace with their “ Lucky Repentance Saves” perversion Of God’s Word.Confused, poorly taught people that lack the Faith to Trust in the Grace Of God and just INSIST on adding works to the Finished Work Of The Cross, have taken a good thing like Repentance and turned it into Leaven.”Leaven is Anything one adds to the Gospel .....Anything That trues to add Human Merit to Salvation..... I have seen many Legalists come and go here at Worthy.Paul never told us Gospel Believers to try to persuade Legalists......he never said to beg or argue with them.....he never even told True Believers to Pray for those who have been deceived— thinking that there is ANYTHING that needs to be added to “Nothing But The Blood.” Paul said to throw them out of the Church.Period.The following is a copy of what I posted to our previous Gospel “ Perverter” ( Paul’s term, not mine) Margo.As said , I am tired of arguing what should be obvious to anybody with God’s Spirit in them every other week.Enjoy the following excerpt of an old Post to Margo .....it is meant mainly for Newbies — I try to grab them with the Truth before they get ruined by those that say “ Lucky Repentance” trumps Grace in God’s Plan Of Salvation.... Repentance is not “ Lucky” unless the term is used in the manner that the Legalists use it......Two 100% equal Believers have given in to temptation and checked out some very racy pictures on the internet.Both died instantly with heart- attacks at their computers.One guy had the “ good luck” to say a real fast prayer saying he was sorry for sinning and he went to Heaven.The other man? Well, he did not have the same Luck. He did not say he was sorry for sinning and went straight to Hell. So there is your “ Lucky Repentance” for you. It turned out Faith meant nothing, Grace was a lie and the Blood Of Jesus was good, but just not adequate to cover all sins. It all came down to who was “ Lucky” Repentance -Wise. There must have been some type of printing error in my Bible......mine did NOT say, “ By “Repentance” thou art saved, not by Works, lest any man should boast” My Bible said “ By Grace thou art saved.......” Grace is a non- existent word in the ugly World Of Leaven and Legalism.....It’s all about Repentance in the nick-Of-time, i.e. “ Lucky” Repentance .....I don’t think God will have anything to do with it....HIS Way is Grace......Grace Plus Nothing.....best get with The Plan..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted April 22, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: I am so weary and frankly, bored , to have to deal with Modern-Day Judaizers That add to Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace with their “ Lucky Repentance Saves” perversion Of God’s Word.Confused, poorly taught people that lack the Faith to Trust in the Grace Of God and just INSIST on adding works to the Finished Work Of The Cross, have taken a good thing like Repentance and turned it into Leaven.”Leaven is Anything one adds to the Gospel .....Anything That trues to add Human Merit to Salvation..... I have seen many Legalists come and go here at Worthy.Paul never told us Gospel Believers to try to persuade Legalists......he never said to beg or argue with them.....he never even told True Believers to Pray for those who have been deceived— thinking that there is ANYTHING that needs to be added to “Nothing But The Blood.” Paul said to throw them out of the Church.Period.The following is a copy of what I posted to our previous Gospel “ Perverter” ( Paul’s term, not mine) Margo.As said , I am tired of arguing what should be obvious to anybody with God’s Spirit in them every other week.Enjoy the following excerpt of an old Post to Margo .....it is meant mainly for Newbies — I try to grab them with the Truth before they get ruined by those that say “ Lucky Repentance” trumps Grace in God’s Plan Of Salvation.... Repentance is not “ Lucky” unless the term is used in the manner that the Legalists use it......Two 100% equal Believers have given in to temptation and checked out some very racy pictures on the internet.Both died instantly with heart- attacks at their computers.One guy had the “ good luck” to say a real fast prayer saying he was sorry for sinning and he went to Heaven.The other man? Well, he did not have the same Luck. He did not say he was sorry for sinning and went straight to Hell. So there is your “ Lucky Repentance” for you. It turned out Faith meant nothing, Grace was a lie and the Blood Of Jesus was good, but just not adequate to cover all sins. It all came down to who was “ Lucky” Repentance -Wise. There must have been some type of printing error in my Bible......mine did NOT say, “ By “Repentance” thou art saved, not by Works, lest any man should boast” My Bible said “ By Grace thou art saved.......” Grace is a non- existent word in the ugly World Of Leaven and Legalism.....It’s all about Repentance in the nick-Of-time, i.e. “ Lucky” Repentance .....I don’t think God will have anything to do with it....HIS Way is Grace......Grace Plus Nothing.....best get with The Plan..... What the bible does NOT say: "By grace will you go to heaven, through faith." The intent of the scripture is that people are BORN AGAIN (Greek Sozo) by grace through faith. We are to form doctrine from ALL scripture, not cherry picked scriptures. The truth is plain in scripture; John Calvin's doctrine was and is bogus. God with His great mercy has taken people to SEE both heaven and hell. And then come back and tell others. Some have been allowed to talk with some in hell, and find out why they are there. These stories are eye opening to say the least. You can ignore these personal testimonies if you choose. Just remember, so of the scripture is "personal testimony." Some of the people Jesus allowed them to speak to were born again people on earth that were foolish after they were born again. One lady, for example: Jesus told the person He was escorting to hell that this lady imagined that there was a difference between big sins and little sins. She was a thief: she had a friend that worked at a pharmacy, and when she needed medicine, she would ask her friend to steal for her. Jesus said He worked on her for over a year to get her to repent of stealing and causing another to steal, but she thought it was just her conscience bothering her. She died suddenly in a car accident. (You would probably say she was unlucky!) Jesus had no other choice but to send her to hell. His word was out: thieves don't go to heaven. The moral of this story is, there is no such thing as a "little" sin. You would like to cherry pick "by grace are you saved, through faith" and IGNORE other scriptures that are not so easy. Is it "unlucky" that God works with one person to quit smoking and another smoker to quit fornicating? Paul was wise: He kept his conscience unscared and clean. Since a person's conscience is the voice of their spirit, a born again person's conscience is the human spirit with the Holy Spirit! It is very dangerous for a believer to make a practice of going against their conscience. The ten commandments are written in a believer's heart! A believer cannot sin without their conscience bothering them. But if a believer continues to sin and ignore their conscience, their conscience will get seared and it will not bother them so much. When a believer practices sin and quits repenting they are in a very dangerous place. How can I explain this any clearer? God forgives MANY sins that are not confessed because a believer walking for the most part in the Spirit still might sin and not recognize it (anything not of faith is of sin). What did John write? "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." The other side of this coin is: THERE ARE DEAL BREAKERS! What is a "deal breaker?" It is when a believer chooses to practice a sin God has said will prevent someone from entering heaven. 1 Corinthians 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Another verse tells us "all liars" will have their place in the lake of fire. My friend, these are DEAL BREAKERS. God has given us a great deal: walk in the light and our sins are cleansed by His blood. But the word of God is plain: a believer can BREAK this good deal! If a believer insists on practicing sin, without repentance, they are in a very dangerous place. Like you said, a sudden heart attack could pick them off. Satan is will aware of such people: without a doubt his demons were involved in the temptation to sin. When a believer is out from under the blood covenant, they can be picked off by the devil. "Impossible," someone will say! There is another story: a married pastor was committing adultery with a younger lady of his congregation. It was found out. The Pastor's wife was FURIOUS with him. That means she in no way had forgiven him. She ended up shooting herself and killing herself. Yes, she went to hell. NO ONE with unforgiveness is going to get into heaven: that is scripture! We are not allowed to cherry pick the scriptures we like and ignore the rest! You can continue to ignore these scriptures if you choose. It is up to you. The truth is, OSAS doctrine had caused people to end up in hell. NO ONE can con God. He knows our every thought and intent of our heart. As long as a believer's heart is on repentance for sins, with "Godly sorrow," God will go through hell with them, so to speak, trying to get them set from from sin; but sin, when practiced enough, can cause someone to get to the place where they give up and quit repenting. They have been deceived by sin. They are in a very dangerous place. Edited April 22, 2020 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted April 22, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2020 20 hours ago, Behold said: You are trying to make Hebrews Ch 4,6, & 10 teach traditional LEGALISM. I'll tell you what.... If you agree that a born again believer can't lose the Grace of God (their salvation) then you have shown me that you understand Grace. Do you agree that a born again believer can't lose the Grace of God ? (their salvation)? As unless you can admit this, publicly, then you are a proven and called out teacher of Legalism. = Bottom line. And if that is so, then that is why you only look for verses that you can then reconstruct contextually into self saving - Grace denying - Cross rejecting Theology.= (Legalism) So, prove me wrong. Tell me that you believe in Eternal Security and that being born again can not be changed or undone, and that a born again person cannot "lose" the Grace of God (Salvation)... and following that, we can talk more about the NT, np. Let us know. God's grace is very powerful, but it cannot go beyond His written word. It is that simple. Again, very simple: ENTER God's grace and His call by an act of our own human will. ("Whosoever WILL") A born again person can chose to LEAVE by an act of their own will. God's grace will not override a human will. He created us as free moral agents with the right of choice. OF COURSE He will not override that choice. "Grace" does not equal "salvation." Millions are UNWILLING: very same Grace of God, but a different WILL. We must form doctrine from EVERY verse, not just selected ones we like. TULIP is bogus and not scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted April 22, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, iamlamad said: God's grace is very powerful, but it cannot go beyond His written word. It is that simple. Again, very simple: ENTER God's grace and His call by an act of our own human will. What you wrote is your imagination, = That has nothing to do with the New Testament or the Blood Atonement or The Cross, or Truth. We dont enter God's grace by our "will"..... any more then you can walk thru a brick wall by your effort. The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have no idea what the Grace of God is, or actually provides, or... what it actually means to be born again. LIsten, We enter God's family because God accepts our FAITH, to then SAVE US by His GRACE. "Saved by GRACE > THROUGH FAITH".. "Your faith is accepted then counted as RIGHTEOUSNESS". Your "WILL" has nothing to do with any of that. Edited April 22, 2020 by Behold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted April 22, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.86 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2020 5 hours ago, iamlamad said: God's grace is very powerful, but it cannot go beyond His written word. It is that simple. Again, very simple: ENTER God's grace and His call by an act of our own human will. ("Whosoever WILL") A born again person can chose to LEAVE by an act of their own will. God's grace will not override a human will. He created us as free moral agents with the right of choice. OF COURSE He will not override that choice. "Grace" does not equal "salvation." Millions are UNWILLING: very same Grace of God, but a different WILL. We must form doctrine from EVERY verse, not just selected ones we like. TULIP is bogus and not scripture. God's grace is very powerful, but it cannot go beyond His written word. It is that simple. God’s Grace “ IS” very powerful, and of course it can’t go beyond His written Word. So what does His written Word say? “ Where sin abounds, Grace abounds that much more.” Grace sure is unfair, isn’t it? That’s why it is called “ Grace”— UNMERITED Favor. God’s Ways are not our ways. Grace is NOT fair......and sinners like you and I should get on our knees and thank God that it isn’t ! If not for the Power Of God's grace.... you and I and everybody else would be going to Hell Without any Hope.Yes, Grace is not fair—- get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted April 23, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.86 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2020 If a born again person makes a habit of fornicating, they are a fornicator. Don't think otherwise! If they repent they are covered. If they repent a hundred times they are covered. But it is possible a born again person can get so into sin they just quit repenting. A “ Born Again person who makes a habit of Fornicating” is a Forgiven Fornicator...He May or May not know it , but if he “ does not judge himself” and stop his sinful behavior, God will not hesitate to Chastise a Carnal Believer and get him in line.If a foolish Believer chooses to ignore God’s chastening hand , God may decide to take him Home years prematurely .He is still a Believer— His Salvation is secure because God’s Grace trumped his sins.He is one of the types that Paul says will make it, but he will make it like a man who escaped a fire by the skin of his teeth....He will suffer loss when rewards are passed out to those who were wise and lived lives that were pleasing to God—— those who discovered the secret of obedience— Love. A side product of Resting in the Gospel Of Grace ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted April 23, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2020 22 hours ago, Behold said: What you wrote is your imagination, = That has nothing to do with the New Testament or the Blood Atonement or The Cross, or Truth. We dont enter God's grace by our "will"..... any more then you can walk thru a brick wall by your effort. The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have no idea what the Grace of God is, or actually provides, or... what it actually means to be born again. LIsten, We enter God's family because God accepts our FAITH, to then SAVE US by His GRACE. "Saved by GRACE > THROUGH FAITH".. "Your faith is accepted then counted as RIGHTEOUSNESS". Your "WILL" has nothing to do with any of that. What you are showing us all is that you choose certain scriptures over others, and then ignore the other scriptures. Can you use logic? What does the Word of God say? "He is not willing that ANY should perish." Then consider the words of Jesus, that BROAD is the way to destruction and MANY find their way down this road and are lost. This PROVES conclusively that the human will is involved when anyone moves toward Christ. People CHOOSE to come or they CHOOSE not to. The human will is the very reason that so many people are lost. Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. Luke 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. Make no mistake here: people get born again because they CHOOSE to by an act of their WILL. At the same time, MORE people choose NOT to because they WON'T. Again it is an act of the human will. LIsten, We enter God's family because God accepts our FAITH, to then SAVE US by His GRACE. This is TRUTH. We could add to this truth: God gives us the Faith that He then accepts. However, there is something just as true that is not mentioned: Someone must be WILLING to come to Jesus to be born again. And again, the vast majority just WON'T. I believe I am going to believe the written Word of God rather than your TAKE on the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted April 23, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, iamlamad said: What you are showing us all is that you choose certain scriptures over others, and then ignore the other scriptures. Im not ignoring the verses you are posting. Im just ignoring how you are trying to teach them incorrectly. See, until you are in agreement with the Blood Atonement and the Finished work of Jesus on the Cross. Until you are in agreement with "justification by Faith". Until you are in agreement with "the GIFT of Righteousness" Then you are not in agreement with God. Once you get there, then we can dialog in unison. But not until. Edited April 23, 2020 by Behold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted April 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Behold said: Im not ignoring the verses you are posting. Im just ignoring how you are trying to teach them incorrectly. See, until you are in agreement with the Blood Atonement and the Finished work of Jesus on the Cross. Until you are in agreement with "justification by Faith". Until you are in agreement with "the GIFT of Righteousness" Then you are not in agreement with God. Once you get there, then we can dialog in unison. But not until. I agree, a born again person is justified by faith. But before that they had to be willing to come to Jesus. Most are not willing. I agree, a born again person gets to wear Jesus' robe of righteous, but first they must be willing to come to God. Sadly, most people in the world are NOT willing, even though God is not willing that they perish. Therefore, all who end up on the broad way that leads to destruction are going against the will of God. Edited April 24, 2020 by iamlamad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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