The Two Phases of Christ's Return

[not an echo]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:05 AM, Diaste said:

On 4/16/2020 at 7:06 PM, R. Hartono said:

Very funny uriah, how can He comes as as thief if the Kings n armies of the world can prepare to battle Him at armageddon. ???????????

Because the thief in the night idea is one of suddenness, a surprise, not secrecy. 

Every pretribber misses this and refuses to deal with because it destroys the 'secret coming doctrine':

"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Hello Diaste (and all),

Having myself been raised under the tutelage of prevailing pre-trib rapture thought, my concept of Christ's coming for the Church was as you say, one of "secrecy".  We all saw this "first phase" of His return as being invisible, at least, invisible to the rest of the world, not to the Church.  Well, long ago, I came to see this a little differently.  In harmony with Scripture, I now see the first phase of Christ's return as being NOT visible to some, instead of INvisible.  By this I mean, not visible to anyone outside of Israel's hemisphere.  What I am getting at is easily illustrated by something all of us observe regularly.  Let me explain.

Because the earth is a sphere, the sun is not visible to everyone on the earth simultaneously.  For example, when it is noon in Israel, the sun is not visible to anyone in the United States, however, it is very visible throughout the hemisphere of which Israel is a part---and vice-versa.  So, while the sun is often NOT visible, it is never INvisible.  Of course, THE SON can be invisible if He wants to be!  Or, visible to some while at the same time invisible to others or whatever He wants!   But, a lot of what He wants or intends to do, is revealed in Scripture.  We just have to try to interpret it correctly.

The belief that Christ will return invisibly at the rapture has been based upon His return as a "thief".  However, Christ's returning as a thief does not have to mean that His return will be invisible.  No thieves have ever worked invisibly, but most do work in a manner where they won't be seen or where their being seen will be limited.  And, if they are seen or glimpsed, it is often not realized what they have done until it is too late.  According to what we find in Scripture, such will be the nature of the first phase of Christ's return (Matt. 24:42-44;  Lk. 21:34-36;  and I Thess. 5:1-4).

In years past, when I would try to imagine Christ returning as a thief to take His Church out of this world, my only concept was in tune with the common pre-trib view and without any consideration of the sphere shape of the earth.  I too envisioned Christians disappearing the world over and none of those left behind getting a glimpse of anything, much less a glimpse of Christ.  I too could see Christian's clothes settling in a ruffle as their bodies disappeared from within them or something falling that a Christian might have been holding at the time or vehicles that Christians were driving, suddenly being driverless, and what that would mean.  In other words, I never saw a problem scripturally with how things are commonly imagined or depicted.  Well, this is still the way I see things happening, at least on our side of the earth.  I mean, we have Scripture that things in this world are going to be shaken up.  We have Scripture that this is going to happen without warning.  And, we have Scripture that when it happens, it's going to happen very, very quickly.  Hence, the way I see things, what is commonly imagined is simply a matter of doing the math!  But, do we have Scripture that Christ is going to return invisibly at this time?  What we do have Scripture for is this:

When it is time, the Lamb will open the 6th Seal, whereupon He will suddenly return to the earth, but in the clouds over the land of Israel (Matt. 24:29-31, Acts 1:9-11, Rev. 6:12-17).  This will be His Sign Return, and barring a miracle to some other effect, it will not be possible for those left behind in our hemisphere to see this.  However, in Israel's hemisphere, even if it's high noon, I can envision everything suddenly brightening up intensely, like in a blink!  Concurrent with this, there will be a great sound of a trumpet, whereupon the resurrection will occur, followed immediately by the rapture of the Church.  Even though multitudes of Christians arguably most, will not be in Israel's hemisphere, the angels will gather them together so quickly that they too will see (and meet!) Christ within a twinkling of an eye!  At this same instant, 144,000 Jews (in Israel's hemisphere) will get at least a glimpse of Christ, a glimpse that apparently connects with their being converted.  They will be sealed, but left behind, evidently for the purpose of bearing testimony to the Lamb and warning everyone concerning the Antichrist during Daniel's 70th Week.

For all the rest left behind on Israel's side of the earth, many possibilities exist.  Many will be in or near the land of Israel, but others will be at the far reaches of its hemisphere.  Those who are outside and not facing in His direction at the instant of His appearance may not get the same glimpse of Him as those who are.  It's not hard to imagine everyone that sees His brightness having to shield and shut their eyes, and opening their eyes, He may already be gone!  Some will be inside at the time and may only see the flash of brightness in conjunction with everything else that will happen.  Outside of the 144,000, there's no telling how many will get a glimpse of Him but won't survive all that will happen long enough to tell about it.  Of those missing, some will be gone who were known to be Christians, along with some who were not know to be.  On the other hand, of those left behind, there will be those who were thought to be Christians, but were not---those who were merely religious but lost.

Meanwhile, on our side of the earth, in our hemisphere, those who are left behind will be left shaking their heads---in my thinking, as commonly depicted---left to experience the aftermath of the opening of the 6th Seal and what will happen once the 7th Seal is opened, which will happen the same day.  For those in Israel's hemisphere, however, things will be somewhat different, for we can only imagine what the sign appearance of Christ will be like, even if it's but a glimpse.  But, Jesus and John give us a little insight---Jesus, in Luke's account of His Olivet Discourse (Lk. 21:25-27), and John, in his account of the 6th Seal (Rev. 6:15-17).

What all the day of the rapture entails will be immense.  Suffice it for now to say, when the dust settles from it all, 144,000 sealed Jews and a multitude of unsaved people will be left behind who will witness the rise of the Antichrist---and things are not going to be good.

"But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day:  we are not of the night, nor of darkness.  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others;  but let us watch and be sober" (I Thess. 5:4-6).

Edited February 2, 2023 by not an echo

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, Uriah said:

And, no, He doesn't need His wife to fight for Him. She is the one for whom He brings His armies to rescue!

I think the same thing. The husband is not bringing His wife to battle. 

Matt 26:53.

"Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?"

Already has a rather large and powerful standing army ready to go.

[douggg]

On 4/14/2020 at 11:56 PM, not an echo said:

29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 30  And then shall appear THE SIGN of the Son of man in heaven:  and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

Look on my chart, down in the lower right hand corner.   I have annotated Matthew 24:29.   Matthew 24:30a.    Matthew 24:30b.    It will save you about 50 years of your time.

 

[Diaste]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:05 PM, R. Hartono said:

No Angels found riding a horse unless its the Rodeo Angels ???????

No evidence for does not suggest it's false or incorrect, however....

"The armies (strateuma: an expedition, an army, a company of soldiers) of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses."

"Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? (A standing army in heaven already exists)"

"Behold, the Lord is coming with myriads of His holy ones (hagios: sacred, holy)"

Since angels are ' holy ones' and are already organized as an army, and there around 50-70 thousand mentioned in Matt 26, this idea of angels making up the army has more evidence than an army of translated believers.

 

 

[Diaste]

On 4/17/2020 at 10:48 PM, not an echo said:

 

For all the rest left behind on Israel's side of the earth, many possibilities exist.  Many will be in or near the land of Israel, but others will be at the far reaches of its hemisphere.  Those who are outside and not facing in His direction at the instant of His appearance may not get the same glimpse of Him as those who are.  It's not hard to imagine everyone that sees His brightness having to shield and shut their eyes, and opening their eyes, He may already be gone!  Some will be inside at the time and may only see the flash of brightness in conjunction with everything else that will happen.  Outside of the 144,000, there's no telling how many will get a glimpse of Him but won't survive all that will happen long enough to tell about it.  Of those missing, some will be gone who were known to be Christians, along with some who were not know to be.  On the other hand, of those left behind, there will be those who were thought to be Christians, but were not---those who were merely religious but lost.

Meanwhile, on our side of the earth, in our hemisphere, those who are left behind will be left shaking their heads---in my thinking, as commonly depicted---left to experience the aftermath of the opening of the 6th Seal and what will happen once the 7th Seal is opened, which will happen the same day.  For those in Israel's hemisphere, however, things will be somewhat different, for we can only imagine what the sign appearance of Christ will be like, even if it's but a glimpse.  But, Jesus and John give us a little insight---Jesus, in Luke's account of His Olivet Discourse (Lk. 21:25-27), and John, in his account of the 6th Seal (Rev. 6:15-17).

 

"Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn over him. So it is to be. Amen."

There is a lot more to this than you propose. EVERY EYE will see Him. 

And even those who pierced Him? So those who nailed Him to the cross and the one who speared Him are alive till He returns? Or they will be resurrected at His return? 

The earth is depicted in scripture set on a foundation. Pretty sure the world's idea on...everything that matters...is incorrect.

Divine prophecies mixed with pseudo-science and a heap of rhetoric do leave an impression.

[Eddy Crocker]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

"Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn over him. So it is to be. Amen."

There is a lot more to this than you propose. EVERY EYE will see Him. 

And even those who pierced Him? So those who nailed Him to the cross and the one who speared Him are alive till He returns? Or they will be resurrected at His return? 

The earth is depicted in scripture set on a foundation. Pretty sure the world's idea on...everything that matters...is incorrect.

Divine prophecies mixed with pseudo-science and a heap of rhetoric do leave an impression.

When scripture seems to contradict itself then that means our interpretation is wrong. Scripture doesn’t contradict itself when this is interpreted as spiritual eyes.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation.

1 Thessalonians 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

The kingdom comes without physical observation and the thief is not seen until it’s too late. When scripture says every eye shall see him whom they have pierced has to mean every spiritual eye shall see him.

People stumble over the words in the Bible because they interpret them literally and they are only used to elevate our eyes towards the spiritual reality.
 

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you

John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

Mathew 16:28 I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mathew 24: 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Acts 2:11 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams

we are living in the last days because we don’t know when we are going to die. It’s appointed unto man once to die then the resurrection and the judgment.

we are either going to be raised now while we are living by dying to the Adamic nature or when our bodies die.

This resurrection is a rapture that takes place now when our eyes are open to see the fields ripe to harvest (past tense). This is only future for those that don’t have eyes to see and ears to hear. 
The Antichrist spirit is the spirit that says that he is not come in the flesh. Notice the scripture doesn’t say has come or is Coming. IS COME is a present reality now. If your interpretation is future of his coming or rapture then you simply are manifesting this Antichrist Spirit that passes the buck to a future moment.

Its more spiritual to fall short so you can pat yourself on the back for your efforts or your pursuit of to try to obtain or go after it. We tend to like the pursuit after as a spiritual barometer of how spiritual we think we are in our own eyes.

True humility is not to fall short. Pride is what falls short and doesn’t obtain. Flesh doesn’t like a finished work because flesh can’t be justified by its works to go after it.

[not an echo]

On 4/16/2020 at 10:50 AM, Ruth Also said:

I enjoy end-time discussions, but it comes down to practicality to me.  Regardless of the time, the important controllable factor is ARE WE DOING what He told us to do, or are we playing around without seriousness.  There are lots of indicators, and those are good, but the most important question is what are we doing?  Are we going to be found doing as He wanted?  

Hello Ruth Also (and all),

I appreciate your heart concerning this.  It has been a concern of mine as well.  Consider:

Some who believe that a pre-trib interpretation is wrong suggest that it is also dangerous, in that the Church, if it thinks that it won't be going through any of Daniel's 70th Week, will be unprepared, if it does.  Whatever the case, this would represent a temporal concern of a few years at most.  However, if the way I am seeing things is correct, a much more serious concern---an eternal one---would relate to the lost.  For example, there seems to be a mentality with some that if a lot of people end up missing one day, it may be that the rapture has indeed occurred, and that those who find themselves left behind will still have a chance to be saved, as long as they don't succumb to taking the mark of the beast.  But, the possibility of the United States (and the rest of the Western Hemisphere) being destroyed on that day suggests that this chance will be minimal, if even existent, for those left behind over here.  See my thread, The First Four Trumpets  (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/249206-the-first-four-trumpets/).  When I think of our nation and how God has shed His grace on it, it would not surprise me if those left behind over here---those who have continued to reject God and His grace---are immediately doomed.  I think of Sodom and Gomorrah and how our nation is often compared to those wicked cities.  On the day God judged those cities, the angels delivered Lot and his daughters, whereupon the cities were totally destroyed.  This may be what is in store for our nation (and what is in our hemisphere) on the day of the rapture.  Consider what Abraham beheld after God judged Sodom and Gomorrah, from Genesis 19:

 27  And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:

 28  And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

For that one who may be reading this who is lost (or unsure), if you have thought that there will still be a chance to be saved if you find yourself left behind one day, there is no assurance of this, especially if you are on the United States' side of the earth.  As Paul told the Corinthians, "behold, now is the accepted time;  behold, now is the day of salvation" (II Cor. 6:2b).

Edited February 2, 2023 by not an echo
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[Eddy Crocker]

11 minutes ago, not an echo said:

Hello Ruth Also (and all),

I appreciate your heart concerning this.  It has been a concern of mine as well.  Consider:

Some who believe that a pre-trib interpretation is wrong suggest that it is also dangerous, in that the Church, if it thinks that it won't be going through any of Daniel's 70th Week, will be unprepared, if it does.  Whatever the case, this would represent a temporal concern of a few years at most.  However, if the way I am seeing things is correct, a much more serious concern---an eternal one---would relate to the lost.  For example, there seems to be a mentality with some that if a lot of people end up missing one day, it may be that the rapture has indeed occurred, and that those who find themselves left behind will still have a chance to be saved, as long as they don't succumb to taking the mark of the beast.  But, the possibility of the United States (and the rest of the Western Hemisphere) being destroyed on that day (see my thread, The First Four Trumpets) suggests that this chance will be minimal, if even existent, for those left behind over here.  When I think of our nation and how God has shed His grace on it, it would not surprise me if those left behind over here---those who have continued to reject God and His grace---are immediately doomed.  I think of Sodom and Gomorrah and how our nation is often compared to those wicked cities.  On the day God judged those cities, the angels delivered Lot and his daughters, whereupon the cities were totally destroyed.  This may be what is in store for our nation (and what is in our hemisphere) on the day of the rapture.  Consider what Abraham beheld after God judged Sodom and Gomorrah, from Genesis 19:

 27  And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:

 28  And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

For that one who may be reading this who is lost (or unsure), if you have thought that there will still be a chance to be saved if you find yourself left behind one day, there is no assurance of this, especially if you are on the United States' side of the earth.  As Paul told the Corinthians, "behold, now is the accepted time;  behold, now is the day of salvation" (II Cor. 6:2b).

When we interpret the book of Revelation externally according to what we call end time signs: we make ourselves a wicked and adulterous nation that seeks after signs as scripture says in Mathew 12:39.

True believers produce signs for the unbelievers to follow. Believers don’t follow after signs.

The very first verse shows how to interpret it in Revelation 1:1 which says.,,

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation means an unveiling of Jesus Christ. Where is Christ revealed? Externally? I Don't Think So! 
Know ye not that the Kingdom is within you. I’m sorry to say we are not seeing Christ being revealed according to and after signs in the flesh realm. He already came in the flesh. No need to know him in that realm because it’s contrary to this scripture found in....

2 Corinthians 5:16-18 

¹⁶ Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more
Why would we need to know him in the flesh? It’s a hinderance to the all things becoming new in us after the Spirit revealed in next verse.....

 

2 Corinthians 5:17

¹⁷ Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Everyone who try’s to interpret The Book of Revelation According to signs will be wrong and is that adulterous nation that seeks after signs. You can’t go wrong to interpret it spiritually because that’s where Christ is revealed from within and not from without.

[not an echo]

On 4/17/2020 at 10:34 AM, Uriah said:

On 4/17/2020 at 12:35 AM, not an echo said:

Hello Uriah, 

Consider:  Your child is a preteen, living in the States on the base, and you are a five-star general.  You are serving in a far distant land.  You have always reassured your child that if it looked like an invasion of the States was about to happen, you would return for him prior to this---to not be overly concerned about any rumors.  Not knowing how long it will be before you return, you would quite naturally want to prepare him for some of the things that would lie ahead for him in his future.  You might tell him that life is full of both sunny and rainy days, but that it takes such for the flowers to grow.  You might tell him that he will encounter lots of different kinds of people in his life, some who will make good friends and some who will not, so to be careful.  You might tell him that he will be faced will having to say "Yes" or "No" to all kinds of temptations and that however it may seem at the time, things will always turn out better if he says "No."  And, because he is a preteen, you might explain to him some things about puberty and love and so forth.  But, with all of this information, he would have nothing upon which to base the time of your return.  However, when the things began to come to pass that you had spoken of, it would be reinforced for him that Dad sure knew what he was talking about!  Well, later you receive intelligence that an invasion of the States is brewing.  You send letters to keep your son informed, always with the reassurance that you will return for him before such an invasion takes place.  The way everything is shaping up, this invasion will be climaxed by the battle of all battles.  You write your son a final letter, letting him know how everything is shaping up.  Just before you tell him about this battle of all battles, you say, "Now son, be ready and packed, cause when I come to get you, I'm gonna be making quick work of it.  Just like a thief when he's making off with the valuables!"

I can almost envision your son showing his friends about this that is fixing to happen.  I can see them, looking at that part about you telling him to be ready and packed because of how you are gonna be whisking him away.  And, I can see them saying, "So, he's gonna wait till the day of the battle to come to get you?"  Hopefully, your son would be able to say something like this:  "NO, NO, he's gonna come get me before the invasion!  Here, just look at the other letters he's sent me!"

Hello not an echo,

You have produced a fine example of man's reasoning, but let's look at scripture: (often repeated) The only two examples Jesus used from the O.T. were Noah and Lot.

Uriah, this is not merely an "example of man's reasoning".  It is an illustration based solidly upon Scripture.  The same as Jesus used earthly stories to teach us spiritual truths (parables), we, as his followers, often do the same.  We just call them illustrations.  Important to remain mindful of is this:  Even a poor illustration that is in harmony with Scripture must be regarded above an accepted interpretation that is not.

A little sidebar:  I love reinforcing that Jesus never has stopped speaking in parables.  When we walk with Him, as His first disciples did, we will find that He always has something to teach us, by using examples from the world around us.

On 4/17/2020 at 10:34 AM, Uriah said:

Matt 24:37-39- “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. “For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 17:28-  Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

Rev 15:8- The Temple was filled with smoke from God’s glory and power. No one could enter the Temple until the seven angels had completed pouring out the seven plagues.

Rev 19:1,7&8- And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God:.......Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

In each case with Noah and Lot, God's people remained UNTIL THE DAY that the judgment of God came down from above.

In Rev 19 the chapter starts with people in the sky shouting for joy.THAT IS THE RAPTURE!  THEN it says it is time for the wedding, NOT 7 or 3.5 yrs. earlier. NOW she is given the white clothing to wear. 

In summary,  the reasoning we come up with to avoid scriptural truth fails. 

If I am understanding you correctly, you see the rapture as occurring in conjunction (some way) with Christ's return for the Battle of Armageddon.  If this is so, your interpretation is in serious conflict with Scripture and the very examples of it that you are using.  As I see it, for the rapture to not occur until this late in The Revelation would be tantamount to Noah not getting aboard the ark until the 40th day of rain.  Similarly with Lot and his daughters, only with them, it would have been raining "fire and brimstone."

Edited February 2, 2023 by not an echo

[not an echo]

51 minutes ago, Eddy Crocker said:

1 hour ago, not an echo said:

Hello Ruth Also (and all),

I appreciate your heart concerning this.  It has been a concern of mine as well.  Consider:

Some who believe that a pre-trib interpretation is wrong suggest that it is also dangerous, in that the Church, if it thinks that it won't be going through any of Daniel's 70th Week, will be unprepared, if it does.  Whatever the case, this would represent a temporal concern of a few years at most.  However, if the way I am seeing things is correct, a much more serious concern---an eternal one---would relate to the lost.  For example, there seems to be a mentality with some that if a lot of people end up missing one day, it may be that the rapture has indeed occurred, and that those who find themselves left behind will still have a chance to be saved, as long as they don't succumb to taking the mark of the beast.  But, the possibility of the United States (and the rest of the Western Hemisphere) being destroyed on that day (see my thread, The First Four Trumpets) suggests that this chance will be minimal, if even existent, for those left behind over here.  When I think of our nation and how God has shed His grace on it, it would not surprise me if those left behind over here---those who have continued to reject God and His grace---are immediately doomed.  I think of Sodom and Gomorrah and how our nation is often compared to those wicked cities.  On the day God judged those cities, the angels delivered Lot and his daughters, whereupon the cities were totally destroyed.  This may be what is in store for our nation (and what is in our hemisphere) on the day of the rapture.  Consider what Abraham beheld after God judged Sodom and Gomorrah, from Genesis 19:

 27  And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:

 28  And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

For that one who may be reading this who is lost (or unsure), if you have thought that there will still be a chance to be saved if you find yourself left behind one day, there is no assurance of this, especially if you are on the United States' side of the earth.  As Paul told the Corinthians, "behold, now is the accepted time;  behold, now is the day of salvation" (II Cor. 6:2b).

When we interpret the book of Revelation externally according to what we call end time signs: we make ourselves a wicked and adulterous nation that seeks after signs as scripture says in Mathew 12:39.

True believers produce signs for the unbelievers to follow. Believers don’t follow after signs.

The very first verse shows how to interpret it in Revelation 1:1 which says.,,

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Hello Eddy Crocker,

It makes me cringe that anyone might think that I am seeking after signs or a follower of signs.  Not sure what you may have seen in my posts that has led you to have this concern, if I am understanding your response correctly.  I most assuredly understand Christ's return for the Church as being imminent, and because I see this as happening with the opening of the 6th Seal, I see His opening of this seal as being imminent as well.  According to Scripture, there are signs that will occur concurrent with this event, but these will be witnessed by those left behind.  Perhaps the following sentence will clarify for you (and any) that I am not looking for, or seeking, any sign:  I believe Jesus can come for the Church, of which I'm most grateful to be a part, before I push Submit Reply