Weddings of Ancient Israel.

[Matthew Umbarger]

I have to say this: the only places that I have found that talk about the bridegroom coming as a surprise are Christian sources, so I am a bit skeptical.

[Matthew Umbarger]

On 8/16/2005 at 9:27 PM, sail2awe said:

Dr Luke,

 

First, thank you for looking into this with me. Please forgive the length, lots at stake in this understanding imo, and I still don't understand this yet. brings several questions to mind, if you or anyone can help reconcile the differences, that would be a tremendous help. Let me explain why and bring forth some issues:

 

Are we in agreement that in the OT, Israel is the only called out nation of covenant, she is likened as a wife of devorce, and a bride to be, her relationship to the Lord is as that of marriage? And in Revelation?

Can we also agree that Israel's blessing is in the earth, and therein lies the hope of their calling?

 

Re; Marriage supper, is it Israel, the sheep of the OT, and specifically the overcomers of Rev 2 and 3 who are in view?

If I understand correctly, you are saying everyone is the bride. Am I getting that right?

 

If both Israel and Gentiles are both the bride, are you saying we gentiles are really spiritual Israel?

Are the priests who reign with Christ the bride, if so, who shall be subject under them?

Who are the guest at the wedding?

not to mention how rude it would be to give an inviation to the bride, Rev 19:7 says the bride is already present, v 9 continues, 'Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God'.

 

This seems to suggest more than one group? considering we have priests reigning 'on the earth' Rev 5:10, the blessed guests, the marriage supper, the bride of the Lamb. Possibly even two spheres of activity, earthly and heavenly. Of that city, called the bride, the Lambs wife we find it has the names of the apostes, the names of the tribes and comes to the earth:

 

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

 

Abraham was appearently showed this city:

Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

I just wanted to bring into view this heavenly city is the holy Jerusalem, and bears the mark of Abraham, covenant promise, and strictly Hebrew in charactor.

 

The Verses You Shared:

In looking to the chapters in which these verses lie, and it seems to me that the subject is written to the Jews, reiterating one of Paul's messages of reinforcement they are one body who "is joined unto the Lord" and as Jews, reminded of what Peter said, "who am I that I should w/stand God", that being one body together unto the Lord, that the spirit of so doing "is one spirit". Paul is showing them of what sort of place Corinth is, that they should not engage in various carnal acts that were prevelent there. And it was really really pagan pagan bad at Corinth. In this context, marriage is discussed with the Jews. There is no indication this portion of the letter was written for the gentiles, recalling it is written to the Jew first, then to the gentile. Thus NT structure of Acts period letters alternate the addressee, Jew first, then Gentile.

 

Lets review that Paul is speaking to the Jews here, that they not go to law against one another.

It begins before ch6, supporting clear distinctions - lets just get one verse, as the remainder flow into ch6:

1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

< Gentiles had no law as the one mentioned next>

1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

1Co 6:2 the world shall be judged by you

Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? <only Israel had angelic contact and message>

1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments ... in the church. <of course here, the church is the synagogue>

1Co 6:5 I speak to your shame...between his brethren?

1Co 6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. <These are Jews only here>

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? Paul says the same thing in Rom 12:5, So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

<These Jews here are not, as far as I can tell, the same as being the church which is His body, who has blessings in the heavenly places, far above all that Paul writes to after Acts are they? What do you think?>

 

1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. <Paul is telling these Jews something of their relationship to the Pagan gentile believers. Remember, the Jews are having to do alot of changing to accept thier position changing to allow gentiles to know of what they consider thier God. Appearently, they were worst than the gentiles were, so these were no means using law for what is righteous, but against one another for gain>

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. <HE JOINED-IS ONE SPIRIT. that they are joined to the Lord in one spirit and one body, being 'members in particular' <1Co 12:27>. That is not the HS here, it is the spirit of those joined together>

 

Paul then gives a discourse which continues to the following ch., giving the summation here, reminds these Jews of their relationship and future promise to be again betrothed unto the Lord:

 

1Co 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

Referrencing:

Isa 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

Deu 22:19 ...she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.

 

Moving forward there are 3 things I want to look at:

 

1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

1Co 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

1Co 7:24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

 

I believe that the words hope and calling are intiment in their relation:

 

during Acts, the Jew first:

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling

hope of Israel <various places>

after Acts, one body

The eyes of your understanding must first be enlightened <Eph1.18>

 

Clearly the question is raised, can the church spoken of in the prison ministry, who will be seated with Chirst in the heavenly places <eph2.6> and called 'His body', be the same church as they of OT promise who are 'the bride', called Israel, who have an inheritance 'in the earth'.

 

 

That is exactly what we are trying tofind out. Or me, being I am the one asking.

 

Eph1 ::a note---speaks of a church in the singular and never in the plural <so do all prison epistles> of a gentile church thus:

 

'all spiritual blessings in heavenly places. v3

'chosen in Him from before the foundation of the world' v4

'adoption...by Jesus Christ to himself' v5

made us accepted in the beloved' v6

according to the riches of his grace v7

<super> abounded toward us v8

made known unto us the mystery of his will v9

in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth v10

we <this gentile church> have obtained an inheritance 11

sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise v13

until the redemption of the purchased possession v14

in my prayers v16

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation v17

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints <holiest of all> v18

what is the exceeding greatness of his power v19

set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places v20

Far above all v21

gave him to be the head over all things to the church v22

Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all. 23

 

So this boils down for me, to understand how these two different things can possibly be the same thing:

**those who since Moses have been instructed and do know their hope and calling, an earthly inheritance given throught the OT, called since the foundation of the world, seen as priests ministering the word of the Lord in the earth, pertaining to covenant promise and blessings

 

**those who must pray to know their hope of his calling, an heavenly inheritance given only in the prison epistles, chosen before the foundation of the world, called the church which is His body and seen seated with Christ far above all with all spiritual blessings w/out covenant.

Deuteronomy 18:16 talks about the "yom ha-qahal," the Day of the Assembly, on which God gave His Torah to Israel gathered around Mt. Sinai to receive His Word. The word "qahal" is translated as ekklesia in the Greek Septuagint. This is the word we translate "Church."

So, the Assembly of Israel and the Church are the same thing. No distinction. Gentile Christians are grafted onto Israel, Christ's Bride.