Your closest friendnt Posted May 11, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 11, 2020 16 minutes ago, Cornelius10 said: It is because the Coats of skin that God gave Adam and Eve, is the Flesh. Before the Fall they existed in a Spiritual Realm. Look at all the passages that say we fight against the flesh, the Flesh is sinful, etc.. If they were in the flesh before the fall, then the flesh would not be sinful, it would be how God created us perfect in the Garden. But the Flesh is sinful, God created coats of skin. You need to take the responsibility to also say why you do not believe Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit.... You cannot say something for arguments shake, like you have never read how God created the world... The desire of the flesh or the need to be a mother or to want to eat this kind of food...these needs of the physical body are not sinful... God told Eve you will have those desires in due time...because as of yet she did not have them...it was not the time yet for that... Genesis 3:16 16 To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” **God said to Eve...your desire. WILL BE FOR YOUR HUSBAND... He said "will be", because as if yet Eve did not have this desire...of motherhood...or was mature in that area... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 11, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.20 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Cornelius10 said: It is because the Coats of skin that God gave Adam and Eve, is the Flesh. Before the Fall they existed in a Spiritual Realm. Look at all the passages that say we fight against the flesh, the Flesh is sinful, etc.. If they were in the flesh before the fall, then the flesh would not be sinful, it would be how God created us perfect in the Garden. But the Flesh is sinful, God created coats of skin. If I may ... the flesh is sinful because of the fall, but that does not mean there was no flesh before the fall. May I ask why you think Adam and Eve were spiritual beings from creation to the fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 11, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, OneLight said: If I may ... the flesh is sinful because of the fall, but that does not mean there was no flesh before the fall. May I ask why you think Adam and Eve were spiritual beings from creation to the fall? OneLight, what do you mean by flesh..in the above context.... Do you mean the physical body of man...the flesh and the bones his inner parts, and all that part of man that decays upon death? Including the bones... Do you mean the needs of the flesh or our bodies... When Paul said the man of flesh...he was referring to the Jews of the old Covenant....who were without the spirit of God as of right....the believers of Jesus Christ.. Are the spirituals, having the guidance of the Holy Spirit within... Genesis 3:16 19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” Edited May 11, 2020 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 11, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.20 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 11, 2020 13 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: OneLight, what do you mean by flesh..in the above context.... Do you mean the physical body of man...the flesh and the bones his inner parts, and all that part of man that decays upon death? Including the bones... Do you mean the needs of the flesh or our bodies... When Paul said the man of flesh...he was referring to the Jews of the old Covenant....who were without the spirit of God as of right....the believers of Jesus Christ.. Are the spirituals, having the guidance of the Holy Spirit within... Genesis 3:16 19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” In this case, man. Everything changed after the fall, both natural and spiritual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 11, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 11, 2020 5 hours ago, OneLight said: In this case, man. Everything changed after the fall, both natural and spiritual. Is not quite clear, how the spiritual change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 12, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2020 6 hours ago, Cornelius10 said: Why are you saying this about me? You have taken the position that Adam and Eve were in the spirit... If in the spirit it make sense to conclude that as being in the spirit without bodies they cannot eat anything at all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 12, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2020 46 minutes ago, Cornelius10 said: Jesus Ate after the Ressurection. Yes he did, but he had first a body and then he died and then resurrected from the dead to his body...Amen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 12, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Cornelius10 said: If we understood all the ways of God we would be above Jesus in the hierarchy, as Jesus does not know the day or hour, Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. I do think so... Jesus spare his disciples from this controversy... *No servant is greater than his master... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gershom_young Posted May 14, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 109 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 54 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) On 5/11/2020 at 4:15 AM, Your closest friendnt said: think of Moses who was not circumcised till very late in his adult life...and he grew up guess where?? And he was taught what and by whom.... Scripture doesn't support this claim. Exodus 2:2 And the woman conceived, and bare a son [Moses]: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months. The Israelites circumcised their males at 8 days old. Moses was 3 months when he was hidden. Exodus 2:5-6 And the daughter of Pharaoh came down to wash herself at the river; and her maidens walked along by the river's side; and when she saw the ark among the flags, she sent her maid to fetch it. And when she had opened it, she saw the child: and, behold, the babe wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews' children. The daughter of Pharaoh saw that Moses was a Hebrew child when she opened the ark. How could she tell, if not by his circumcision? The Egyptians practiced circumcision much later than 8 days. Exodus 4:24-26 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him. Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision. Zipporah circumcised her son, not her husband. I'm sure she would have been capable of circumcising her husband also, if he needed it, but one needs only be circumcised once, and Moses was already done at 8 days old. If Moses were uncircumcised, wouldn't God have brought it up before? And even if He did only bring it up then (at the lodging place), wouldn't the LORD have continued seeking to kill Moses until Zippy snipped the foreskin from Moses also? Edited May 14, 2020 by Gershom_young 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 14, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Gershom_young said: Scripture doesn't support this claim. Exodus 2:2 And the woman conceived, and bare a son [Moses]: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months. The Israelites circumcised their males at 8 days old. Moses was 3 months when he was hidden. Exodus 2:5-6 And the daughter of Pharaoh came down to wash herself at the river; and her maidens walked along by the river's side; and when she saw the ark among the flags, she sent her maid to fetch it. And when she had opened it, she saw the child: and, behold, the babe wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews' children. The daughter of Pharaoh saw that Moses was a Hebrew child when she opened the ark. How could she tell, if not by his circumcision? The Egyptians practiced circumcision much later than 8 days. Exodus 4:24-26 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him. Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision. Zipporah circumcised her son, not her husband. I'm sure she would have been capable of circumcising her husband also, if he needed it, but one needs only be circumcised once, and Moses was already done at 8 days old. If Moses were uncircumcised, wouldn't God have brought it up before? And even if He did only bring it up then (at the lodging place), wouldn't the LORD have continued seeking to kill Moses until Zippy snipped the foreskin from Moses also? Hello Gershom_young, where have you been hiding... You have let context speak for you, this is amazing as only a very few people can have such an independent mind and are able to express their thoughts with context... You have help me with my response as I had considered exactly the same scriptures... So let's walk those scriptures together... "The daughter of Pharaoh", said: This is a Hebrew child... She must have been a well educated princess as she grew up in the palace and having the best teachers...most probably Egyptian Priests... She also must have known about Pharaoh's orders regarding the Hebrew newborns...the midwives who helped with the births had orders from Pharaoh to kill the male new born upon birth.... As you can see we have a situation where many of the seed of Jacob died without the circumcision...that will trigger perhaps a theological question...just an observation at this time... You brought up the eight days till the circumcision day...I think this is address the ceremonial clean and unclean problem...as both the mother and the infant would have to wait for seven days to pass till they were considered clean....this also seems to be a blessing among the seed of Abraham a promise from God that none of the seed of Abraham the blessing going to Jacob from Isaac will die at birth...or between those eight days...none of his seed will die uncircumcised...so Abraham will loose none of his seed... We are face with the question how the Princess understood that the baby was a Hebrew and also we have to look into whether the mother had circumcised the baby or not.... Exodus 2:2 And the woman conceived, and bare a son [Moses]: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months. There is nothing in this passage to suggest anything about the baby being circumcised or not in the specific... we have the custom of circumcision which was done in eight days... so day one pass and the mother not only could not get herself to kill the baby, she Kept him, and she had eight days till the circumcision day to think what she is going to do with him and how to hide him... Did the mother did away with the circumcision to protect the baby...or did she not....I take it that it is not clear about this matter... About the Princess...was she childless, was she not married....did she long to be a mother and she could not... Did she prayed to her fertility Gods asking them for their help... If this is the case then when she shaw the baby did she think that her prayers were answer and her Gods wanted her to take his baby....did she saw the baby as a gift from God...the answer to her prayers.... Did Pharaoh's sister recognise that the baby is a Hebrew from the cloths that was rap up.. Or knowing the Pharaoh's decree she perceive that a Hebrew could not get to kill the baby and put him on the river.... It looks like they were not concern about crocodiles...maybe were not any that time... In the Jewish tradition I think he was recognized by the clothing ... Or why would an Egyptian woman would do that... Moses is a name given not by his mother but by the Pharaoh's daughter... Moses grew up in the Palace as an Egyptian... As the Son of Pharaoh's daughter he must have been educated in the Egyptian customs and religion...he must have been exposed to the Egyptian way in all aspects of life.... The Egyptians that time had the Priest and the Temple and their worship very much like the Hebrew set up later on... Moses was exposed and the people to have the priesthood separated from the statehood... The priest in Egypt were a nation within a nation...very much like later the Levites were... Moses got to know the Egyptian Gods and their powers and what they can do.... The Priests of Egypt they were also the diviners and advisors of Pharaoh... I have to agree that is not clear about the circumcision...but I have to consider as to why Moses was relax with the circumcision about his son...is it because himself was not circumcised according to the Jewish customs...as he did not grow under this observance the way his brother Aaron had.. .as he grew around Egyptian religious customs...the Egyptian occult.. I have to agree that the scriptures is silence in his matter...and why is it to downplay.... And why Moses was introduced as an Egyptian to his Midian father in Law.. Who did not have the custom of circumcision.... Moses did not grew up as a Hebrew... And was that time as a man without a country...an adapted member of his Midian family...so it makes sense that he followed the customs of his wife...till God intervene and ask that he wants his son to be his an Hebrew the same for Moses... Any way that was a good exercise and just remember in the dessert they were not circumcised...and still considered God's Nation... Thank you... PS Do you see anything else..please put it forwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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