Salvation...Can it be lost???

[halifaxchristian]

What do you guys think and please show Scriptural support.

[Guest lyricalprophet]

listen... the Bible says once you have asked the Lord to take your sins from u and u get saved its final you r sealed into the Lambs book of life so if anyone tells you other

whys there wrong. Look at it this way once you r born from your mothers woomb you cant go back in.

Edited August 29, 2005 by lyricalprophet

[NITE OWL]

I looked over some of this thread and there's really nothing I can add to what's already been said.

I don't believe in OSAS. But that's just me. There's nothing in the scriptures that support this belief. I know a lot have been mentioned but I still stand by my beliefs.

Read the scriptures for what they say, not what you want them to say. Think outside the box.

Anyway...that's all I have.

Have a good one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, nite owl...as the saying goes...all good things must come to an end.

I respectively disagree...and yes...the Scriptures support this belief.

In fact, the more I study the issue, the more I find the anti-OSAS belief heretical and dangerous.

But for the sake of keeping the peace, I will stop here. God bless you brother!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Pilgrim7]

Halifax,

All you need to do is ask the Holy Spirit who will lead you into all truth. No one who just hears the Gospel is clean escaped from the world. There are many, many who just hear, but don't escape. My brother you seem to be a very sincere Christian and it is not my purpose to argue with you or impugne your understanding of Scripture, but I agonized with the Holy Spirit over this and also assembled every Scripture that I could find and the Spirit convinced me through the word of these things. Let us look at the parable of the sower.

Mt 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. (to become unfruitful means that he was fruitful at one time)

13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. (He continues in the word and continues bearing fruit)

The last three all received the seed, the gospel, the good news, Jesus. The first two who received the seed, allowed the world, their sin, their carnal nature to choke out the word, choke out Jesus. This is a perfect example of the churches today. You see none of the hearers were predetermined. None of them were good ground to begin with for all are the slaves to sin before Jesus comes in, but the good ground chose to not allow the word to be choked out. They continued in the faith and did not fall away. The did as Peter told them, the added to their faith so that they would not fall away, they made their calling and election sure. You see we are save by a living faith, not an irrevocable decree of God. This faith is to grow into a mighty tree. This faith needs to be fed and nourished through communion with God and obedience to the word. Any one with true saving faith knows what happens to that faith when they commit willful sin. They lose their hold on God.

If they continue in willful sin, they harden their heart and their faith degenerates to a mere theory, a collection of empty words with no power to overcome sin.

I have seen it happen. At one point in my life it almost happened to me.

God bless you brother,

Dennis

[halifaxchristian]

Halifax,

All you need to do is ask the Holy Spirit who will lead you into all truth.  No one who just hears the Gospel is clean escaped from the world.  There are many, many who just hear, but don't escape.  My brother you seem to be a very sincere Christian and it is not my purpose to argue with you or impugne your understanding of Scripture, but I agonized with the Holy Spirit over this and also assembled every Scripture that I could find and the Spirit convinced me through the word of these things.  Let us look at the parable of the sower.

Mt 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. (to become unfruitful means that he was fruitful at one time)

13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. (He continues in the word and continues bearing fruit)

The last three all received the seed, the gospel, the good news, Jesus.  The first two who received the seed, allowed the world, their sin, their carnal nature to choke out the word, choke out Jesus.  This is a perfect example of the churches today.  You see none of the hearers were predetermined.  None of them were good ground to begin with for all are the slaves to sin before Jesus comes in, but the good ground chose to not allow the word to be choked out.  They continued in the faith and did not fall away.  The did as Peter told them, the added to their faith so that they would not fall away, they made their calling and election sure.  You see we are save by a living faith, not an irrevocable decree of God.  This faith is to grow into a mighty tree.  This faith needs to be fed and nourished through communion with God and obedience to the word.  Any one with true saving faith knows what happens to that faith when they commit willful sin.  They lose their hold on God.

If they continue in willful sin, they harden their heart and their faith degenerates to a mere theory, a collection of empty words with no power to overcome sin.

I have seen it happen.  At one point in my life it almost happened to me. 

God bless you brother,

Dennis

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey dennis, thankyou for your reply. Let me start with the parables above. I have heard many different interpretations of the "sower" from both sides of the fence and there are very satisfactory answers that support OSAS.

One theory, which is more of a personal conviction, is this: Remember that I do not deny that some seeds become unfruitful. That is the whole point of this discussion...Can people who "fall away" lose salvation??? I do not believe the Scriptures say this, nor the above parable. One would have to read his own conclusion into the text to come to such a doctrine. It may seem logical to you, but this does not mean that it is true. Yes...some seeds are choked out...exactly like I was...but God knows how to purge those whom are His. And that is the point of this discussion. I don't mean to sound rude...just want to give my honest opinion here.

As for the 2 Peter phrase:

"...They allure through the lusts of the flesh those that were clean escaped from them who live in error."-verse 18

Notice that it doesn't say that they were "clean escaped" from sin...or even from error itself...BUT...from those who "live in error". I believe that Peter was merely saying that people who hear the Gospel message have escaped the corruption that is in the world by that knowledge...and need to grab hold of it by faith.

Obviously the "clean escaped" above were not saved, because Peter even says:

"For it had been better for them not to have KNOWN (not accepted) the way of righteousness, than, after they have KNOWN IT, to TURN (not accept) from the holy commandment..."-verse 21

Can it be said of those who were once saved that they turned from the holy commandment? I don't believe so.

Let's both pray over it my brother...God bless!!!!

[halifaxchristian]

"For God so loved the World that he gave his only Son, so that all who believe in Him shall have eternal Life"....John 3:16

Do they have a different translation in Canada or something???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well...I read the KJV...but the answer is no. Christians believe in Jesus Christ in their spirits...unfortunately the flesh is weak, and sometimes believers walk in the flesh. But God purges them...and abides faithful even when we are not.

[other one]

"For God so loved the World that he gave his only Son, so that all who believe in Him shall have eternal Life"....John 3:16

Do they have a different translation in Canada or something???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you look at KJV you will see that it says that those who believe should not perish. The greek says might not perish. The later translations changed that one word to shall instead of should and it adds much too much to the verse.

It does not say that if you believe you will be saved, it really says that if you believe you might/may not perish, It is not as definitive as it sounds in later translations....... and it does matter......

se

[other one]

Like I'm gonna pay attention to someone quoting Greek who doesn't even know how to spell it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When you have been here for a while and have a few thousand posts, you will find that many here have typing mistakes and almost everyone over looks them for the time involved in correcting everything. Spend two or three hours a day here for a year or two writing and researching things and a mispelled word here and there really doesn't matter much..... at least to most of us.

[Joy in the Journey]

Like I'm gonna pay attention to someone quoting Greek who doesn't even know how to spell it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When you have been here for a while and have a few thousand posts, you will find that many here have typing mistakes and almost everyone over looks them for the time involved in correcting everything. Spend two or three hours a day here for a year or two writing and researching things and a mispelled word here and there really doesn't matter much..... at least to most of us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've only been here 6 weeks or so and whilst I am somewhat of a stickler for spelling, grammar, etc. on myself; I mess up too at times. And it certainly doesn't mean that just because you make one ( or even several ) spelling mistakes that you're ignorant. I overlook them as well other one Really, it means nothing. I knew what you meant when you typed "greak"

God bless you my friends,

Tim

[Pilgrim7]

Halifax,

Thanks for you gracious and thoughtful reply. I totally agree with you as to us both praying about this. I have no axe to grind, just concern for souls who have used it, OSAS, to become lax and lukewarm. I am not interested in desputing this but believe we shold both go on to the full stature of Jesus Christ.

Phil 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [i do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

God bless you and keep you my brother,

Dennis