Mary Was Just A Woman

[JohnS]

"Surely if the testimony of 2000 years does not effectively prove the Church of Rome to be the institution founded by our Savior on the Rock of Peter, then has the world no Church of Christ at all."

You didn't address all the Christians killed during the dark ages by the church of Rome. Is that part of the testimony?

superjew..."founded by our Savior on the Rock of Peter"

Do you really think that is just an irrelevant doctrinal difference?

or praying to Mary?

or confessing to a priest?

Every bit of it is to keep sinners away from a relationship with Jesus Christ.

I am not surprised when such charges are made against the Catholic Church. Jesus told us, "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master; it is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household" (Matt. 10:24

[Smalcald]

"Surely if the testimony of 2000 years does not effectively prove the Church of Rome to be the institution founded by our Savior on the Rock of Peter, then has the world no Church of Christ at all."

You didn't address all the Christians killed during the dark ages by the church of Rome. Is that part of the testimony?

superjew..."founded by our Savior on the Rock of Peter"

Do you really think that is just an irrelevant doctrinal difference?

or praying to Mary?

or confessing to a priest?

Every bit of it is to keep sinners away from a relationship with Jesus Christ.

I am not surprised when such charges are made against the Catholic Church. Jesus told us, "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master; it is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household" (Matt. 10:24

[Assisi]

"You didn't address all the Christians killed during the dark ages by the church of Rome. Is that part of the testimony?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is an equally well-documented fact that for hundreds of years those who maintained loyalty to Rome were persecuted, disenfranchised, and many times brutally murdered by good Bible-believing Protestants, simply because they were Catholic. The reigns of Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, and Oliver Cromwell saw the execution of thousands of Catholics, for no other reason than the fact that they were Catholic. Religious wars on the Continent such as the Thirty Year's War caused the death of thousands of others.

Add to this the loving kindness displayed by many of the Reformers and early Protestants towards each other (Luther's admonishment to the German princes to slay without mercy during the Peasant's Rebellion, Calvin's numerous brutal executions of various dissidents to his reign, the Salem witch trials, and others), and pretty soon the Protestants start to look just as ugly, vicious, brutal, and un-Christlike as the Catholics.

The "Dark Ages" (so-called because the period was one of upheaval and anarchy, and very little was recorded during it) lasted from approximately 500 AD to about 1000 AD. Religious strife was certainly present, but compared to the complete collapse of the Western Roman Empire, the breakdown of all trade, communications, law, and infrastructure, and invading waves of Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Vandals, Lombards, Huns, Burgundians, Thuringians, Suevi, Heruli, Quadi, Magyars, and Vikings, it was rather low on the list of reasons why the "Dark Ages" were such an unsavory era.

In order to see the terrible wrongfulness of the early Christians being charged with heresy, one needs to understand that they were God's messingers shedding forth the light of the Gospel into a dark world.

I agree that killing Christians being charged with heresy, was not a terribly good solution, at least seen from our perspective 1600 years later; but I'm not so sure about the "messengers shedding forth the light of the Gospel" aspect of it. The Kerinthians, Ebionites, Elchasaites, and Mandeanites were all Gnostic heretics, who believed in numerous gods including the Jewish God, and although they derived their doctrine from a Christian base, they denied the divinity of Christ. The Adoptionists and Modalists also denied Christ's status as the Son of God. The Montanists and the Manicheists believed that God and Satan were equal, locked in an eternal struggle, and that physical aspects of life such as eating and sex were evil. The Novatianists believed that there were some sins which could not be forgiven. The Monophysites and the Apollinarianists believed that Christ had no human nature---He was God, but not man.

Which of these teachings, in your view, represent the "light of the Gospel" that they were shedding forth? And after 476 AD, there was no Roman Empire west of Rumania. There was no government, no army, no police, and no order. The various barbarian tribes, unless they were Arians, were not Christians but worshippers of Thor and Freya. How did they link to the Church to maintain a religious monopoly?

[Assisi]

Do you really think that is just an irrelevant doctrinal difference?

or praying to Mary?

or confessing to a priest?

Every bit of it is to keep sinners away from a relationship with Jesus Christ.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Catholic adhear to Apostolic Tradition.

As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.

[JohnS]

Assissi,

Apostolic tradition. doctrines, dogmas...you have a wonderful grasp on all that(or maybe the apologist you quote).

Now, tell me about Jesus. You have said the pope is head of the church,the priest hears the confession, Mary intercedes for grace...what position is left for the Lord Jesus Christ?

Can you tell me the role of Jesus in your life?

[halifaxchristian]

Nothing I can say, nor any Scriptures I can quote, will change any of your opinions of the Satanic, oops, I mean, Catholic (Universal deception) Church...respectively, there are more hard heads on this forum than a construction site. Let the evil be evil still. I know that there are people out there who read my statements and know that there is truth to it. Perhaps they will seek themselves and come to know the truth. Only the Holy Spirit gives increase, not Michael (Me), Apollo, or even Paul. All I can do as a faithful follower of Christ is plant the seed...God will lead me to good ground. The fruits and harvest will come, but I fully expect to see thorns and tares along the way. God bless you in your journeys.

Michael.

"Come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins...for her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath REMEMBERED HER INIQUITIES."-Rev.18:4,5

Edited July 28, 2005 by Ovedya

[halifaxchristian]

"Surely if the testimony of 2000 years does not effectively prove the Church of Rome to be the institution founded by our Savior on the Rock of Peter, then has the world no Church of Christ at all."

You didn't address all the Christians killed during the dark ages by the church of Rome. Is that part of the testimony?

superjew..."founded by our Savior on the Rock of Peter"

Do you really think that is just an irrelevant doctrinal difference?

or praying to Mary?

or confessing to a priest?

Every bit of it is to keep sinners away from a relationship with Jesus Christ.

I am not surprised when such charges are made against the Catholic Church. Jesus told us, "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master; it is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household" (Matt. 10:24

[halifaxchristian]

"IT IS THE BOUNDEN DUTY OF EVERY CHRISTIAN TO PRAY AGAINST ANTICHRIST, AND AS TO WHAT ANTICHRIST IS, NO SANE MAN OUGHT TO RAISE A QUESTION. IF IT BE NOT THE POPERY IN THE CHURCH OF ROME THERE IS NOTHING IN THE WORLD THAT CAN BE CALLED BY THAT NAME. IT WOUNDS CHRIST, ROBS CHRIST OF HIS GLORY, PUTS SACRAMENTAL EFFICACY IN THE PLACE OF HIS ATONEMENT, AND LIFTS UP A PIECE OF BREAD IN THE PLACE OF THE SAVIOUR...IF WE PRAY AGAINST IT, BECAUSE IT IS AGAINST HIM, WE SHALL LOVE THE PERSONS, THOUGH WE HATE THEIR ERRORS, WE SHALL LOVE THEIR SOULS, THOUGH WE LOATHE AND DETEST THEIR DOGMAS."

-C.H. SPURGEON

Edited July 27, 2005 by halifaxchristian

[Fiosh]

"IT IS THE BOUNDEN DUTY OF EVERY CHRISTIAN TO PRAY AGAINST ANTICHRIST, AND AS TO WHAT ANTICHRIST IS, NO SANE MAN OUGHT TO RAISE A QUESTION.  IF IT BE NOT THE POPERY IN THE CHURCH OF ROME THERE IS NOTHING IN THE WORLD THAT CAN BE CALLED BY THAT NAME.  IT WOUNDS CHRIST, ROBS CHRIST OF HIS GLORY, PUTS SACRAMENTAL EFFICACY IN THE PLACE OF HIS ATONEMENT, AND LIFTS UP A PIECE OF BREAD IN THE PLACE OF THE SAVIOUR...IF WE PRAY AGAINST IT, BECAUSE IT IS AGAINST HIM, WE SHALL LOVE THE PERSONS, THOUGH WE HATE THEIR ERRORS, WE SHALL LOVE THEIR SOULS, THOUGH WE LOATHE AND DETEST THEIR DOGMAS."

-C.H. SPURGEON

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As one who has worshiped and adored Jesus Christ with my RC brothers and sisters in RC churches throughout the U.S. I must say that this statement would be laughable, if it wasn't so hateful.

The RCC specifically, directly, and emphatically REJECTS SATAN AND ALL HIS LIES in our Baptism rite and in our liturgy, twice each year.

My brother, you are sadly mistaken about my church.

Peace,

Fiosh

[halifaxchristian]

"IT IS THE BOUNDEN DUTY OF EVERY CHRISTIAN TO PRAY AGAINST ANTICHRIST, AND AS TO WHAT ANTICHRIST IS, NO SANE MAN OUGHT TO RAISE A QUESTION.