Mary Was Just A Woman

[apothanein kerdos]

Well I think the hierarchy of the Catholic Church has often gotten very off track. But I don't see them or their teachings as a tool of Satan or inherently evil. Some are just plain wrong headed.

But in fact they are much more biblically based than some of the mainline Protestant denominations which are now marrying gays, ordaining women, denying the physical resurrection of Christ, preaching universal salvation, etc, the heresy in these churches would certainly put them in a category of Mystery Babylon as much as the Catholic Church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. While we must be aware that there is a falseness in the Catholic church and that many of the doctrines they consider essential aren't really essential nor true, we must walk away from condemning them as a whole. Especially calling them the Mystery of Babylon or the Whore of Bablyon. For one, any religion that doesn't claim Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savoir (the Catholics do claim Him) is part of the Mystery of Babylon in some way, after all, all false religions come from it. NO religion in our modern time, however, is the Whore of Babylon in Revelation...that is a religion established by the antichrist himself.

[halifaxchristian]

Well I think the hierarchy of the Catholic Church has often gotten very off track. But I don't see them or their teachings as a tool of Satan or inherently evil. Some are just plain wrong headed.

But in fact they are much more biblically based than some of the mainline Protestant denominations which are now marrying gays, ordaining women, denying the physical resurrection of Christ, preaching universal salvation, etc, the heresy in these churches would certainly put them in a category of Mystery Babylon as much as the Catholic Church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. While we must be aware that there is a falseness in the Catholic church and that many of the doctrines they consider essential aren't really essential nor true, we must walk away from condemning them as a whole. Especially calling them the Mystery of Babylon or the Whore of Bablyon. For one, any religion that doesn't claim Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savoir (the Catholics do claim Him) is part of the Mystery of Babylon in some way, after all, all false religions come from it. NO religion in our modern time, however, is the Whore of Babylon in Revelation...that is a religion established by the antichrist himself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Super Jew, I already posted a thread showing why MYSTERY BABYLON must be HISTORICAL and ALREADY present on earth NOW. I can find it and reprint it if you desire. I do not reject your statement that other religions denying Christ are ALSO Mystery Babylon in a spiritual sense. However, the Pope in Rome sits on the throne that is called by John the "MOTHER" of the abominations of the earth. Islam and all false religions are the children of the Vatican and I believe that Revelation 17 and 18 leave no doubts as to this identity being true.

I don't leave churches, fellowship, and denominations for fun. I do so only if I believe they are inherently evil. That is why I left the RCC.

You don't have to believe me, but if you knew me, you would.

God bless.

[halifaxchristian]

Ex-secret Vatican spy with the Jesuit Order (Society of Jesus) Roberto Alvera, who was assassinated by agents of Rome, details how the rise of Islam was supported both financially and ideolically by the Pope and his cardinals, in his short book Alberto: The Prophet, published by Chick Publications. Islam was a tool of the Vatican used to plunder and destroy the Jews and conquer Jerusalem for the "Vicar of Christ". Islam, to this very day, hates the Jews (as historical Catholicism did and does), proclaims some sort of "Jesus", upholds the virgin birth, and is waiting for the "second coming of Christ" who will be the antichrist. Satan has strategically placed Catholic doctrines in the Quran, in order to prepare the world, muslims included, for his One World (Universal/Catholic) religion based in the City of Seven Hills.

God bless.

[Smalcald]

Well those are interesting speculations, but of course have no hard basis in Holy Scripture.

I just don't think God would use an organization such as the Roman Catholic Church as He has, to both provide us with the organization for the first Churches, to decide what books will be in the Cannon of the New Testament, to provide us with so many of the early great saints who have essentially defined how we even think about Holy Scripture today people like Saint Augastine, St. Benedict, St. Francis, the Desert Fathers, I mean these guys all contributed greatly to the first Churches, and then have that organization be from Satan. We have a world wide Christian Church because of the evangelization efforts of the Catholic Church, sometimes of course they did it in the very wrong way, but no one can argue that they did not have a fervor for spreading the word and conversions. Consider Columbus. I am not saying that in the end times the Church won

[apothanein kerdos]

Well I think the hierarchy of the Catholic Church has often gotten very off track. But I don't see them or their teachings as a tool of Satan or inherently evil. Some are just plain wrong headed.

But in fact they are much more biblically based than some of the mainline Protestant denominations which are now marrying gays, ordaining women, denying the physical resurrection of Christ, preaching universal salvation, etc, the heresy in these churches would certainly put them in a category of Mystery Babylon as much as the Catholic Church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. While we must be aware that there is a falseness in the Catholic church and that many of the doctrines they consider essential aren't really essential nor true, we must walk away from condemning them as a whole. Especially calling them the Mystery of Babylon or the Whore of Bablyon. For one, any religion that doesn't claim Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savoir (the Catholics do claim Him) is part of the Mystery of Babylon in some way, after all, all false religions come from it. NO religion in our modern time, however, is the Whore of Babylon in Revelation...that is a religion established by the antichrist himself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Super Jew, I already posted a thread showing why MYSTERY BABYLON must be HISTORICAL and ALREADY present on earth NOW. I can find it and reprint it if you desire. I do not reject your statement that other religions denying Christ are ALSO Mystery Babylon in a spiritual sense. However, the Pope in Rome sits on the throne that is called by John the "MOTHER" of the abominations of the earth. Islam and all false religions are the children of the Vatican and I believe that Revelation 17 and 18 leave no doubts as to this identity being true.

I don't leave churches, fellowship, and denominations for fun. I do so only if I believe they are inherently evil. That is why I left the RCC.

You don't have to believe me, but if you knew me, you would.

God bless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No need to, the Bible specifically states that it will be founded by the Antichrist and destroyed by the antichrist. It is both a religious and a political ideal, the two being seperate. The Catholic church is both political and religious, however the burdens are mixed, the leader of one issue takes care of the other issue. In the Mystery of Babylon there is a false prophet to handle the religious affairs and the Antichrist to handle the political affairs. It also only occurs during Tribulation. So please, save it, I don't need to hear further accusations against my Catholic brethren. I can actually debate them with their own history and scripture, and do not need to restort to condemning them.

[halifaxchristian]

Well those are interesting speculations, but of course have no hard basis in Holy Scripture.

I just don't think God would use an organization such as the Roman Catholic Church as He has, to both provide us with the organization for the first Churches, to decide what books will be in the Cannon of the New Testament, to provide us with so many of the early great saints who have essentially defined how we even think about Holy Scripture today people like Saint Augastine, St. Benedict, St. Francis, the Desert Fathers, I mean these guys all contributed greatly to the first Churches, and then have that organization be from Satan.  We have a world wide Christian Church because of the evangelization efforts of the Catholic Church, sometimes of course they did it in the very wrong way, but no one can argue that they did not have a fervor for spreading the word and conversions.  Consider Columbus.  I am not saying that in the end times the Church won

[halifaxchristian]

Well I think the hierarchy of the Catholic Church has often gotten very off track. But I don't see them or their teachings as a tool of Satan or inherently evil. Some are just plain wrong headed.

But in fact they are much more biblically based than some of the mainline Protestant denominations which are now marrying gays, ordaining women, denying the physical resurrection of Christ, preaching universal salvation, etc, the heresy in these churches would certainly put them in a category of Mystery Babylon as much as the Catholic Church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. While we must be aware that there is a falseness in the Catholic church and that many of the doctrines they consider essential aren't really essential nor true, we must walk away from condemning them as a whole. Especially calling them the Mystery of Babylon or the Whore of Bablyon. For one, any religion that doesn't claim Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savoir (the Catholics do claim Him) is part of the Mystery of Babylon in some way, after all, all false religions come from it. NO religion in our modern time, however, is the Whore of Babylon in Revelation...that is a religion established by the antichrist himself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Super Jew, I already posted a thread showing why MYSTERY BABYLON must be HISTORICAL and ALREADY present on earth NOW. I can find it and reprint it if you desire. I do not reject your statement that other religions denying Christ are ALSO Mystery Babylon in a spiritual sense. However, the Pope in Rome sits on the throne that is called by John the "MOTHER" of the abominations of the earth. Islam and all false religions are the children of the Vatican and I believe that Revelation 17 and 18 leave no doubts as to this identity being true.

I don't leave churches, fellowship, and denominations for fun. I do so only if I believe they are inherently evil. That is why I left the RCC.

You don't have to believe me, but if you knew me, you would.

God bless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No need to, the Bible specifically states that it will be founded by the Antichrist and destroyed by the antichrist. It is both a religious and a political ideal, the two being seperate. The Catholic church is both political and religious, however the burdens are mixed, the leader of one issue takes care of the other issue. In the Mystery of Babylon there is a false prophet to handle the religious affairs and the Antichrist to handle the political affairs. It also only occurs during Tribulation. So please, save it, I don't need to hear further accusations against my Catholic brethren. I can actually debate them with their own history and scripture, and do not need to restort to condemning them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"...I will tell thee the MYSTERY of the Woman, and the of the Beast that carrieth her...the beast that WAS, and IS NOT, and YET IS."-The Apostle John, in Revelation 17:7,8

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which WE HAVE PREACHED unto you, let him be accursed."-Galatians 1:8

Super Jew, have fun with your "brethren". I'd like to see you calling them "brethren" during Hitlers reign. I'm sure your people would be proud...

The truth hurts.

Edited July 29, 2005 by halifaxchristian

[Smalcald]

Well as far as Hitler goes, many Protestant Churches in Germany supported that regime just as some of the Catholic leaders did.

Hitler however had the goal of driving all religious faith out of Nazi Germany. I am surprised that you use that as an argument Halifax, it is one I have often heard from anti-Christian atheists, about how Hitler was a Christian and look how horrible Christianity is, etc. This of course was untrue, and the more we know about Hitler today, the more we are finding how he despised the Catholic Church and was working to drive it out, along with all religious faith.

I think a more apt example would be the work of the Catholic Church in Eastern Europe opposing the communists, and their work today in the Churches in China opposing that regime.

Who knows what may come in the end? One of the signs of the anti-Christ and his church will be apostasy, will be a denial of the authority of scripture and a denial of the authority of Christ as God and Savior. All who deny Christ, as John says are part of the anti-Christ. Now when I look around at the apostasy within our Christian Churches today, I don't see the Catholic Church as leading that problem.

Who knows someday maybe they will, maybe my denomination will, I don't know, but I am not ready to make those kind of broad generalizations now, based on speculative readings of Revelation, which are not clear.

[halifaxchristian]

Well as far as Hitler goes, many Protestant Churches in Germany supported that regime just as some of the Catholic leaders did.

Hitler however had the goal of driving all religious faith out of Nazi Germany.  I am surprised that you use that as an argument Halifax, it is one I have often heard from anti-Christian atheists, about how Hitler was a Christian and look how horrible Christianity is, etc. This of course was untrue, and the more we know about Hitler today, the more we are finding how he despised the Catholic Church and was working to drive it out, along with all religious faith.

I think a more apt example would be the work of the Catholic Church in Eastern Europe opposing the communists, and their work today in the Churches in China opposing that regime.

Who knows what may come in the end? One of the signs of the anti-Christ and his church will be apostasy, will be a denial of the authority of scripture and a denial of the authority of Christ as God and Savior.  All who deny Christ, as John says are part of the anti-Christ.  Now when I look around at the apostasy within our Christian Churches today, I don't see the Catholic Church as leading that problem.

Who knows someday maybe they will, maybe my denomination will, I don't know, but I am not ready to make those kind of broad generalizations now, based on speculative readings of Revelation, which are not clear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hitler was a Catholic. Adolf said:

"I reject taht book by Rosenberg. It was written by a Protestant. It is not a party book...as a CATHOLIC I never feel comfortable in the evangelical church or its structures...as for the Jews, I am just carrying on with the SAME POLICY WHICH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS ADOPTED FOR FIFTEEN HUNDRED YEARS, when it has regarded the Jews as dangerous and pushed them into ghettos, etc., because it knew what the Jews were like. I don't put race above religion, but I do see the danger in the representatives of this race for CHURCH AND STATE, and perhaps I am doing CHRISTIANITY (CATHOLICISM) A GREAT SERVICE."-From The Secret History of the Jesuits, by Paris, page 163.

Franz von Papan, Nazi party embassador to Germany (Papal Nuncio), boasted:

"The Third Reich is the first power which not only recognizes, but puts into practice, the high principles of the PAPACY."-From the Der Voelkischer Beobachter publication, Jan.14, 1934

Puritan Cotton Mather, 1663-1728 declared:

"The oracles of God foretold the rising of an antichrist and in the POPE OF ROME, all the characteristics of that antichrist are so marvellously answered that if ANY WHO READ THE SCRIPTURE DO NOT SEE IT, THERE IS A MARVELLOUS BLINDNESS UPON THEM."-From The Prophetic Faith of our Fathers, vol.3, p.113

[apothanein kerdos]

First, the Catholic Pope during the time of Hitler was wrong and was a horrible person. He didn't speak out against HItler until he was sure he wouldn't get killed for it.

However, this doesn't defeat the fact that many German Catholics hid Jews during the time of Hitler (Schindler being one of them). Many Catholics risked life and limb, and many died, to hide Jews. As did Protestants. Hitler himself wasn't really a Catholic. True aryan doctrine teaches that man has evolved without God being involved and in fact that the Aryan is superior due to nature, not God. Most Aryan's will claim a religion but hardly hold to it or its basic tennets. Should I condemn Martin Luther? His book, "OF Jews and their Lies" was quoted by Nazis. Martin Luther, a protestant, that encouraged the killing of Jews. So be careful where you point your finger.

So please, don't try to accuse the Catholic chruch of something not all of them are guilty of.