Learn a lesson from the Great Awakening ...

[George]

8 hours ago, OneLight said:

Still, the subject of our initial discussion remains unanswered.  When you get the chance, I would like to know your thoughts about the wild branch question.

The oracles of God were given by and through the Jewish people.

Rom 9:3-5  For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.  They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.  To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. 

... the Gentiles were "brought into the promises" through the blood ...

Eph 2:11-16  Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.  But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.  For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility  by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,  and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 

Eph 3:5-6  which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.  This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 

The wild branches ... who were outside the covenants of promise ... through the Cross ... God's plan of RESTORING people from every nation, tribe and tongue could take place.

God's plan all along was to restoration of all that was lost ... the mystery was so great that ...

Eph 3:9-11 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,  so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.  This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, 

even the angels didn't understand the GREATNESS of the plan of God from eternity past was to restore people from every nation, tribe and tongue.

The wild branch ... those outside the promises ... now were able to ACCESS those promises through Jesus ... and the same path for all ... as Paul so stressed ... to the Jew first, and also to the Greek -- the plan of salvation through Jesus Christ!

So from eternity past ... God had a plan to restore people from every tribe, nation and tongue ... He purposed (though He also knew who did not accept as well) that all would come to salvation ... that He sent His Son to die for the ENTIRE world ... that everyone had access to those promises as it was opened to all ... and yet, through unbelief ... they can be broken off of those promises that He laid out for the entire world which was provided through the lineage of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

God bless,

George 

[OneLight]

7 hours ago, George said:

The oracles of God were given by and through the Jewish people.

Rom 9:3-5  For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.  They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.  To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. 

... the Gentiles were "brought into the promises" through the blood ...

Eph 2:11-16  Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.  But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.  For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility  by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,  and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 

Eph 3:5-6  which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.  This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 

The wild branches ... who were outside the covenants of promise ... through the Cross ... God's plan of RESTORING people from every nation, tribe and tongue could take place.

God's plan all along was to restoration of all that was lost ... the mystery was so great that ...

Eph 3:9-11 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,  so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.  This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, 

even the angels didn't understand the GREATNESS of the plan of God from eternity past was to restore people from every nation, tribe and tongue.

The wild branch ... those outside the promises ... now were able to ACCESS those promises through Jesus ... and the same path for all ... as Paul so stressed ... to the Jew first, and also to the Greek -- the plan of salvation through Jesus Christ!

So from eternity past ... God had a plan to restore people from every tribe, nation and tongue ... He purposed (though He also knew who did not accept as well) that all would come to salvation ... that He sent His Son to die for the ENTIRE world ... that everyone had access to those promises as it was opened to all ... and yet, through unbelief ... they can be broken off of those promises that He laid out for the entire world which was provided through the lineage of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

God bless,

George 

Thank you for taking the time explaining the differences between the natural olive branch and the wild olive branch.  I appreciate the effort, I really do, but this I already knew.  I also respect that you are often all over the beards in many discussions, plus everything else you do outside of Worthy.  I just wanted you to know this. 

Now that we know we both agree  about the Law vs Grace, and how Paul through explaining about those in Israel who did and did not believe by example of the Olive Tree, can we now get back to verse 22 where we read "Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. "

Notice there is a condition placed on the wild olive branch through the word "if" - "if you remain in His goodness".  Simple enough to understand that the wild olive branch has an option here, as does God.  Lets acknowledge what they are so there is a focal point.

• option 1: if you remain in His goodness, God will not cut you off
• option 2: if you do not remain in His goodness, God will cut you off

Can we both agree that the wild olive branch is grafted in only because of our salvation through Jesus, so we can say that the wild olive branch is saved?  

Back to the condition.  If the wild olive branch does not remain in His goodness.  What does that mean?  It has to mean something very important if the result could lead to them being cut off from the Olive Tree, losing their connection with spiritual Israel. There is only one why this could ever happen and that is if the wild olive branch decided not to remain in His goodness by turning from their faith in Christ, resulting in them being cut off by their unbelief; a belief that brouhgt them to salvation in Christ is no longer in their heart.

Do you agree or will you offer another explanation how and why a saved person is cut off f it took salvation as the reason to be grafted in.