Behold Posted May 24, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alive said: I disagree, although it really doesn't matter in any functional way. :-) Guilt is what exists from God's point of view because of transgression...Jesus blood covers it and his Righteousness becomes ours. Sometimes semantics can get in the way of agreement. - If we are the Righteousness of God IN Christ, how can we still feel guilty? "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Guilt comes to a believer because they are walking in the wrong mind. Wrong Believing....= not walking in the Spirit. Right believing = not walking "in the flesh", = no guilt......no guilt trips.....no obsession to be repenting and confessing, to try to free themselves from "guilt". Guilt is not a spiritual condition, its a FEELING that is rectified by the "flesh" act of trying to do something to feel better before God. That is wrong believing, and not "walking in the Spirit", where "there is >NOW< no condemnation". Guilt, joy, love, hate, envy, fear, ........ are emotional feelings. = " The Flesh". Righteousness is not a feeling, its a Spiritual State of permanent Holy Existence... "In Christ". Edited May 24, 2020 by Behold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted May 24, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.95 Reputation: 7,797 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Behold said: Lets read Hebrews 10 instead, as i like to keep our Salvation in the New Testament, where Jesus actally died on the Cross. If you read Lev 26, you will see where the apostle quotes part of a verse to the Corinth church. It is ALL relevant. And to finish this pointless discourse: Christ died from (before) the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8 - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted May 24, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: JUSTIFICATION is God's word for NOT GUILTY. And this word is EVERLASTING. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted May 24, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: If you read Lev 26, you will see where the apostle quotes part of a verse to the Corinth church. It is ALL relevant. And to finish this pointless discourse: Christ died from (before) the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8 - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world He didnt die before he was manifested in the flesh, so, be careful there... You are speaking of the "foreknowledge" of God who knows all things from the beginning to the end. So sure, before you were born, God knew you would be reading what im typing., yet i didnt type it before i was born, @Justin Adams...God only knew i would... Edited May 24, 2020 by Behold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted May 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.53 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2020 35 minutes ago, Behold said: WE don't inherit guilt. Guilt is an emotion, its not a spiritual condition. What we inherited from Adam was a spiritual death, that has to be resurrected by the One who says...."I AM the RESURRECTION, and THE Life". Feeling guilty is an emotion; but objective guilt, before God, is real, whether you feel it or not. This is why the Lord Jesus Christ bore his people's sin and punishment, on the cross. James 2:10 (WEB) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. This is why salvation is not, and never has been, by trying to keep the law. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah_ Posted May 24, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 791 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 881 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2020 19 minutes ago, David1701 said: Feeling guilty is an emotion; but objective guilt, before God, is real, whether you feel it or not. Agreed. Guilt is both an objective fact (as when someone is guilty of committing an offence) and a subjective feeling (a guilty conscience). Normally we feel guilty when we are guilty, but the fact and the feeling don’t always go together! “On your clothes is found the lifeblood of the innocent poor… Yet in spite of all this you say, ‘I am innocent.’” (Jeremiah 2:34,35) Genuine guilt is a good thing (just as pain is - usually - a good thing), because it warns us that something is wrong and needs to be put right. But we need to respond to it in the right way. “Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.” (II Corinthians 7:10) Both Peter and Judas were smitten by guilt for their sins against Jesus on the night of His arrest; but the outcome in these two cases was very different. Peter repented and was restored (Luke 22:60-62), while Judas (apparently believing that there was no way back for him) committed suicide (Matthew 27:3-5). The burden of a guilty conscience can make life unbearable - but if it pushes us towards confession, restitution (if appropriate) and repentance, the problem is resolved (Psalm 32:5). For many people, this has been the route to their salvation. However, just as there is ‘psychosomatic’ pain (pain that arises not from injury or disease but from malfunction of the nervous system) there is also such a thing as false guilt. It’s possible to feel guilty over doing something that is actually not sinful, or to carry on feeling guilty for a particular sin even after it has been confessed and forgiven. False guilt is a parasite, eating away at our Christian assurance and paralysing our relationship with God. It can be much harder to deal with than true guilt, because someone suffering from false guilt often gets no relief from confession and repentance; they have become imprisoned in a vicious cycle of guilt, shame, and feelings of unworthiness. In such a situation, we need to recognise that our heart (ever deceitful!) is lying to us. “If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and He knows everything.” (I John 3:20) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted May 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.86 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2020 I don’t have a dog in this fight......it just that some stuff popped into my head that I thought I would throw out there to see if anybody wanted to comment about.... “ It was in sin that I was conceived....” “ We were born dead in sins and iniquities....” We are not Sinners because we sin....We sin because we are Sinners 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Crocker Posted May 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,621 Content Per Day: 1.09 Reputation: 3,243 Days Won: 7 Joined: 04/08/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1973 Share Posted May 24, 2020 27 minutes ago, Deborah_ said: Agreed. Guilt is both an objective fact (as when someone is guilty of committing an offence) and a subjective feeling (a guilty conscience). Normally we feel guilty when we are guilty, but the fact and the feeling don’t always go together! “On your clothes is found the lifeblood of the innocent poor… Yet in spite of all this you say, ‘I am innocent.’” (Jeremiah 2:34,35) Genuine guilt is a good thing (just as pain is - usually - a good thing), because it warns us that something is wrong and needs to be put right. But we need to respond to it in the right way. “Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.” (II Corinthians 7:10) Both Peter and Judas were smitten by guilt for their sins against Jesus on the night of His arrest; but the outcome in these two cases was very different. Peter repented and was restored (Luke 22:60-62), while Judas (apparently believing that there was no way back for him) committed suicide (Matthew 27:3-5). The burden of a guilty conscience can make life unbearable - but if it pushes us towards confession, restitution (if appropriate) and repentance, the problem is resolved (Psalm 32:5). For many people, this has been the route to their salvation. However, just as there is ‘psychosomatic’ pain (pain that arises not from injury or disease but from malfunction of the nervous system) there is also such a thing as false guilt. It’s possible to feel guilty over doing something that is actually not sinful, or to carry on feeling guilty for a particular sin even after it has been confessed and forgiven. False guilt is a parasite, eating away at our Christian assurance and paralysing our relationship with God. It can be much harder to deal with than true guilt, because someone suffering from false guilt often gets no relief from confession and repentance; they have become imprisoned in a vicious cycle of guilt, shame, and feelings of unworthiness. In such a situation, we need to recognise that our heart (ever deceitful!) is lying to us. “If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and He knows everything.” (I John 3:20) Yes that’s correct, Amen sister. Jesus was moved by compassion and love when he healed the sick. He wasn’t moved by feeling sorry for them or by guilt. Yes sometimes guilt can work in bringing you unto and into repentance but once it brings you there and unto it must drop off in order for there to be a true conversion. Some souls in the churches are prematurely reaped before their hearts were truly ready for conversion. This is why someone is seemingly saved but falls away. These souls didn’t manifest a true conversion at the time because that church prematurely reaped these souls through guilt, condemnation, and persuasive words before the heart of that soul was ready. This false process of reaped souls prematurely can damage these souls and cause a hardness of their heart to build up because of this false salvation in them that wasn’t real to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted May 24, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.95 Reputation: 7,797 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: It was in sin that I was conceived.... You mom may have been a sinner, but that does NOT mean her baby was. Her baby had to learn sin from its surroundings and its penchant for selfish behavior. Edited May 24, 2020 by Justin Adams spell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Crocker Posted May 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,621 Content Per Day: 1.09 Reputation: 3,243 Days Won: 7 Joined: 04/08/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1973 Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Justin Adams said: You mom may have been a sinner, but that does NOT mean her baby was. A Propensity to sin or towards it is different from actual sin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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