Fine Linen is the Righteousness of Saints

[Uriah]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Bible is ONE COLLECTIVE Book of God. God even tells us how to STUDY the scriptures.....

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

So, what you are really saying is you can't argue the points so you just want to play hide the ball.  I did not skip anything, I just PROVED to you and everyone else who are being spoken of in Revelation chapters 4 & 5. So don't give me that excuse brother because you can't overcome the SCRIPTURAL PASSAGES I pointed out. 

You don't DEBUNK ANYTHING, you run and hide from the facts, you dodge everything because you have been defeated. Buts then you want to PLAY PRETEND that you are to worthy to make an effort.......RIGHT, you were proven wrong on the facts and thus you DODGE. It's obvious whats going on here. 

If I was was defeated in such a manner on all points, I would do what you did also, or come to the understanding I was in error. There are NO COUNTERPOINTS you can make, that's for sure. Its the Church in Heaven BEFORE the Seals in Rev, 4 and 5, and that's a FACT.

If you truly want to discuss something, like with one topic at a time and actually answer things in my replies-fine. But if you send long rambling journyings  to things off the topic, sorry I won't play pinball posting.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Well then, you have no out, its VERY CLEAR that Rev. 17:12 can not be the Jews. Thus it can ONLY be the Gentile Church. Its like something a 5th grader could deduce from the salient facts brother. They 1/3 {Woman/Israel/Jews} who flee CAN NOT BE The Remnant, because of what the Scripture says.

Rev. 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

How much clearer does this have to be, I think an intellectual man like you knows full well it can not be THE WOMAN {1/3 who are fleeing} because the Dragon/Satan/Anti-Christ WENT AWAY from trying to get at these people because he couldn't get at them, THE EARTH HELPED HER just like in Egypt, so he WENT to attack the REMNANT who keep the Commandments of God AND have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.  This CAN NOT BE the 2/3 Jews who NEVER REPENT and do not Flee Judea, if you can show me ANYWHERE in the bible where people who do not accept Jesus have the TESTIMONY of Jesus I might change my mind, but until then you are just swimming upstream. So, THE REMNANT can't be the Jews, and the facts back that up 100 percent. Thus it can ONLY BE the Remnant Church. The Rapture is Pre Trib, it doesn't matter what ANYONE THINKS. I show the facts and you turn a blind eye. 

Again, if you can answer, up to this point you have not; where are you getting these fractions?

This seems like you don't hear your words:

You say, "They 1/3 {Woman/Israel/Jews} who flee CAN NOT BE The Remnant, because of what the Scripture says." 

Then you post scripture, "and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,"

But I think I finally get your point. You're right. The ones who flee to safety are NOT the remnant. Sorry if I was blowing that off. My mistake. I was making a point that didn't address that and I fully agree with you on this that the ones who flee are protected and not the remnant. My point was in saying the remnant are of the woman who flees and that remnant is spiritual Israel and not this thing called the church. It's clear the woman who flees is Israel ergo, her seed is Israel, spiritual Israel.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

just like I did the Remnant above, you know it can't be the Jews because I have proven it, admitting that is always the hard part. 

The woman is Israel. 

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

So, why is it that upon DECONSTRUCTION those in Rev. 7:9-17 can't be those seen in Rev. 6, Seal #5 under the Altar? Well, one must lean to DECONSTRUCT FIRST, if the narrative put forth {like the 144,000 Jewish Preachers} doesn't fit, then you must deconstruct and then RECONSTRUCT. So, what are the pertinent facts {facts are all that matter} that proves this? 

For starters, SEE ABOVE, I prove that the Church/Bride is seen in Rev. 4 and 5 BEFORE the Seals are opened. So Rev. 7:9-17 would be the exact SAME PEOPLES, because the exact same verbiage is used a we saw In Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9-10.

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

So, the DESCONSTRUCTION of the Rev. 7:9-17 understanding for e started right here, the Holy Bible CLEARLY SAYS via Jesus own words that those seen under the Altar as having died during this 70th week of troubles, MUST WAIT until their fellow brothers have died also in just such a manner as they have.....Psstt, it means they must wait for the Anti-Christ 42-month reign of terror to be FULFILLED !! A little SEASON !! So, those seen in Rev. 7:9-16 CAN NOT be the ones seen under the Altar in Rev. 6:9-11. This is further backed up by the Revelation 20:4 verses that STATES SPECIFICALLY those who died during this 70th week period of TROUBLES are Judged AFTER Jesus returns with us the Church in Rev. 19, this verse also was used by me to DESCONSTRUCT this erroneous tradition.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them{Church will JUDGE}: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

It's VERY CLEAR here that the ones under the Altar in Rev. 6:9-11 are JUDGED HERE, and it is CLEARLY SPECIFIED that the only ones who live and reign ON EARTH with Jesus during his 1000 year reign are the one who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast and were thus KILLED for not taking the Mark of the Beast. So, those at Seal #5 who were told they must WAIT a little season, are seen to have been JUDGED in Revelation chapter 19, AFTER the Second Coming, s they can not be the ones seen in Heaven on Rev. 7:9-17 can they? You see, you guys are going by passed down TRADITIONS, I am allowing God via the SCRIPTURES {which is far more IMPORTANT} to show me the facts. 

So, after DECONSTRUCTION, we have to understand, those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 can not be those seen under the Altar at the 5th Seal, its just not possible, so then I had to figure out why we can not see who those in Rev. 7:9-16 really are and why we were having so much trouble seeing who they actually were. After understanding the Church is in Heaven in Rev. 4 and 5 it was pretty evident those seen in Rev. 7 were also the Church/Bride in Heaven. But why did John/Jesus use the Great Tribulation I wondered, then it hit me, the problem was with US........Men's Traditions......Not with the words Jesus used, we DEMAND God/Jesus to use that phrase of Great Tribulation ONLY with the 70th week troubles, but Jesus himself told the Disciples that we would have CONTINUAL TRIBULATION in this world, so there will be tribulation from the time Jesus gave the Church the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, all the way to the Rapture, then there will be the 70th week troubles and there will be one period that is of course GREATER than all other periods of tribulation in history, BUT, the severity is not the only thing that can be GREATER..........the two periods, one 2000 some odd years and one 7 years can be measured also can't it? Thus, the 2000 some odd year period which will end with the Rapture, better known as the Church Age, is a GREATER PERIOD than the 7 year 70th week period. So, no one is CHANGING ANYTHING, that's all in your limited way of thinking on this. There is a Great Tribulation Period John/Jesus is referring to as per the "CHURCH AGE" which is 2000 years compared to the 70th week which is 7 years. 2000>7 can not be argued, its a FACT............................2000>7 is a factoid, it is GREATER THAN 7. And, there is a time of GREAT TROUBLES like never seen before, the two do not have to be MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE to each other. 

Now, which should I think it is ? The one it CAN NOT BE because as I described in Rev. 6:9-11 and in Rev. 20:4 why it CAN NOT BE those people under the Altar, or the 2000 some odd year Church Age TRIBULATIONS which CAN BE a fact, because 2000 is GREATER than 7 !! There is only ONE CHOICE, God can't lie sir. 

 

I'll swing the axe on this later. Gotta get going.

 

[Revelation Man]

On 6/26/2020 at 3:35 AM, Diaste said:

??

The remnant is mentioned in Rev 12 only in some translations, and in Rev 12 the term 'remnant' is not accurate. It's "And the dragon was enraged at the woman, and went to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."  And in Rev 12 the Woman is Israel. The rest of her children then are seed of Israel, the Seed of Abraham, those in Christ. These are the ones who heard the Gospel that started with a Jew, in Israel, heard first by Jews, the preached first by Jews, then delivered to the rest of the world by a bunch of Jews; to give the world hope and allowing the grafting in of all those that would believe in to the Olive Tree that is Israel. 

Had to leave off here.........important sleep was calling me, I sleep like 18 straight hours which is odd for me, I usually sleep 3 to 4 hours a day, yes that's odd also, but I have never needed much sleep, I used to work 6 days a week 18-20 hours a day at times. SO ONWARD.

The Word means REMNANT, the Children portion doesn't come from the word Remnant but from the word SEED, and we can go over that later brother. We KNOW what the seed is also.

#3062 λοιποί loipoy {loy-poy'} masculine plural of a derivative of G3007; TDNT - n/a; adv

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) remaining, the rest 1a) the rest of any number or class under consideration 1b) with a certain distinction and contrast, the rest, who are not of a specific class or number 1c) the rest of the things that remain

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Masculine plural of a derivative of G3007; remaining ones:—other, which remain, remnant, residue, rest.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

So, there s just no question it means Remnant of whatever is being spoken of, if the word SEED means Jesus, and in this case it does, then it means the rest or remaining portion of said SEED {Jesus' Children if you will}. If you want to say there will be more Christians on earth than in Heaven then the REST of Jesus' Children/Church could e more and still be the Rest, I think will all know the 2000 year portion of the Church age will have more Christians than the 70th Week {Assuming my Rapture time-line is correct, which it is}. 

So, it wouldn't matter via the LARGER PORTION of the Jews brother,l the 1/3 CAN NOT be touched by Satan so he gets ANGRY after the REST OF THE CHILDREN, so even if we used you moniker to describe them, the REST OF THE CHILDREN still do not have the TESTIMONY of Jesus, and you know this, the 2/3 did not Repent and will thus be CUT OFF just like Zechariah 13:8-9 says, and hes ANGRY that he can't get at the 1/3 so the REST OF THE CHILDREN can't be them, it can still ONLY be the Gentile Church. You see brother, swapping word around doesn't change the facts at all. You know I am right on this, yet you just can;t admit it, because it destroys your Rapture theory or understanding. So, it is what it is. 

The CHILDREN portion would come from THE SEED, lets look at what the SEED really means.

 ............remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God,..............

Gal. 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

So, the Remnant of her SEED.........Means the Remnant of Israels {Abraham} SEED, which is Jesus Christ, and thus the Remnant of His mostly Gentile Church, it has nothing to do with Jews who Repented AFTER the Rapture, they are designated the 1/3 who are PROTECTED in Petra, the 2/3 are designated as those who will be CUT-OFF, only the Gentiles who repent AFTER the Rapture can thus be the ones spoken about, who are NOT PROTECTED in Petra and who DO HAVE the Testimony of Christ Jesus. It can be none other. These are the REST OF THE CHILDREN of Jesus Christ THE SEED of Abraham/Israel who is the HER in the sentence. 

The reason REST or REMNANT is used is because the OTHERS have been Raptured, of course.

On 6/26/2020 at 3:35 AM, Diaste said:

Not my timing. I just read and repeat.

 

You repeat men then because God says no such thing.

On 6/26/2020 at 3:35 AM, Diaste said:

Where are you getting these fractions?

I will show you here, but allow me to walk through Israel's repentance AND the TIMING THEREOF, its very important. This shows us EXACTLY when the Jews repent, AND when the DOTL is in Juxtaposition to that repentance. {COFFEE'S GOOD Brother, I love you guys in spite of my tonal voraciousness at times, its just my nature brothers. I am no nonsense type of guy. I say what I mean, even after I go back and try to change things, it is what it is, its just me, God made us all unique. 

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened {Blood of Jesus} to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

NOTICE The very next verse begins the Day of the Lord in Zechariah 14:1-2, so the Jews REPENT BEFORE the DOTL just like Malachi 4:5 says, Elijah will be sent back BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord to TURN Israel back unto God lest a curse falls on them. So, we see Israel REPENT.......IN THAT DAY.........The day when they turn back unto God, and the FOUNTAIN of Jesus' Blood is released for SINS and for UNCLEANNESS. God then states that 2/3 {TWO PARTS} shall be CUT-OFF and die, but the THIRD PART {1/3} shall be left therein, or PROTECTED and thus not CUT-OFF and die. Good says He will Refine them, TRY THEM, and they {1/3} shall call on my name and I will hear them {This means he Protects them, in Petra} and He calls them His people and the 1/3 call God their God  again, which can only mean they ACCEPT Jesus as their Messiah just like Zechariah 12:10 clearly says they do.

NOW LOOK AT THE VERY NEXT VERSE !!

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

So, 1/3 flee by this time, thus they are in Petra when the DOTL arrives, that is the day God's Wrath starts being  sounded/poured out on mankind, IMHO, the USA is pretty much destroyed by an asteroid on April 13, 2029. The Anti-Christ sees this as his cue to go forth conquering, and does so, here he gathers a bunch of nations against Israel and they Conquer Jerusalem. THEN verses 3 and 4 show Jesus will show up to avenge this defeat 3.5 years later.

Zechariah 14:3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

So, 1/3 of the Jews REPENT BEFORE the DOTL just like Malachi 4:5-6 says. God then Protects them, but the 2/3 who reuse to REPENT are thus CUT-OFF just like Zechariah 13:8-9 says. 

[Revelation Man]

On 6/26/2020 at 4:08 AM, Diaste said:

Proof? You saying it means nothing. I see nothing that proves ch 19 is a full 7 years or any particular time frame. 

Wheat and tares are not mentioned in ch 14, firstfruits yes. Grapes. Blood. You're mixing metaphors in an attempt to prove something that doesn't exist. 

Well, I have given you all the PROOF YOU NEED, I can't make you see it. The FACTS are in evidence. The Church has not Married the Lamb yet in Rev. 19 because they have not received their White Robes, BUT in Rev. 4 and 5 we see the Church has on their White Robes already. Raptured............7 years late we return.........in between we are watching Jesus OPEN THE SEALS in Rev. 4 and 5. Its crystal clear brother. 

As, per the Wheat and the Tares, what does Jesus' parable tell us? That the Jews {Not Gentile Church} will grow with the Wicked Tares until the VERY END. Thus, in verse 14 we see a Mid Chapter Soliloquy, where the Church is Raptured by Jesus himself from upon a CLOUD !! So, during the midst of the END TIME HARVEST CHAPTER, that shows the Wheat and the Tares {unless Jesus was lying } we see a Rapture Harvest where Jesus himself THRUSTS in the Sickle.

Rev. 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. {RAPTURE by Jess}

The Above is clearly Jesus Rapturing the Church himself, now look at the Wicked Tares below...The Angel thrusts in the SICKLE !!

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

So, in verse 1 we see Jesus landing on the Mt. of Olives, he thus rescues the 1/3 who Fled to Petra, and will GATHER the Wheat into his barn. The Wicked Tares are cast into the Wine-press of Gods Wrath in verse 17, but in the MIDDLE of the Chapter we are told what happened to Church, Jesus TAKES US from upon a CLOUD, meaning he calls us to Heaven to be with Him in His Fathers Mansion, thus we will Marry the Lamb, and then return with him. 

The WHEAT grows with the TARES until the very end, so of course Israel are the Wheat and the TARES are the Wicked men of earth. You not understanding these parables is on you brother. 

On 6/26/2020 at 4:08 AM, Diaste said:

This is said twice right after this,

 

It sure is, Jesus HARVESTS the Church, not an Angel, thus Jesus calls us home with a SHOUT just like Rev. 4:1 says.

On 6/26/2020 at 4:08 AM, Diaste said:

Since is it "Then..." the two angels that come out of the Temple follow the Son of Man in order and in conjunction. This is the exact moment of Matt 24:30-31. Jesus appears, gathers His people and then destroys  the rebels. Two harvests at the same time, one harvest of believers and the other of death. Not 7 years apart. It only adds up to 7 years in your mind not by proof of the scriptures.

 

You do know what a SOLILOQUY is right ? So, men can use soliloquies in Movies/Plays but God can't use a soliloquy in the bible? Really? So, if Rev. 14 is THE HARVEST Chapter, and it is, them how would you tell the story? I think, since everything in Revelation past Rev. 4:1 is THE HEREAFTER, and all three Harvests needs to be told, God using a soliloquy to tell about the Three Harvests is perfect symmetry, he tells first about the Wheat...........then tells about the Pre 70th week Rapture by Jesus in the midst of the End Time story.........then God tells us about the Wicked Tares being BOUND UP in Bundles {Grave} to be burned 1000 years later at the Second Death. The bible is a story about Israel, so we are told about the Jews saved from Petra {144,000 which means 2-4 million Jews} and the Wicked Tares being Slain and placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath. In the middle of the Chapter, the author says, here is what happened to some other Jews who were apart of the Church, they were Raptured by Jesus.

It is 7 years, because the Rapture is INCLUDED, thus everything you understand/see is in error because of that one WRONG TURN. 

On 6/26/2020 at 4:16 AM, Diaste said:

None of which answers this:

"So all these times we see hagios it's the saints of God, the church of Jesus Christ, the set apart ones in the righteousness of Christ.

So then this one mention must be the same group, yes?

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them." - Rev 13:7

Again, God's vocabulary isn't bound by the way you, I or others see things, He can use verbiage the way He sees fit. Right? 

But tbh, I dont even get your point here, the ones hes making war with here are those in Christ, these are the Martyrs under the Altar that get killed by Satan/Anti-Christ during his 3.5 year Rule, because they refuse to take the Mark of the Beast, he will no doubt kill Jews also, and they are called Saints in Daniel, but this is John and hes talking as you say about those who refuse to take the Mark of the Beast for the Most part. But in Rev. 17, we have a DIFFERENT POINT OF EMPHASIS, that was my point, we have Saints being Jews ad Martyrs being the Christans of Jesus Christ, and the reason is the Harlot's MURDERS is referring to Murders of ALL TIME.........Thus the Saints there are Jews who were killed by the Harlot {False Religions} down through the Ages, you know many Prophets were killed, some by Jews who worshiped False gods, and some Jews by the Babylonians, as they tried to kill Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery flame, but failed because of Jesus. Amen. 

So, God can use verbiage anyway He likes, its up to us to determine what it means. 

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, Uriah said:

If you truly want to discuss something, like with one topic at a time and actually answer things in my replies-fine. But if you send long rambling journyings  to things off the topic, sorry I won't play pinball posting.

You are defeated, I understand. Its like a man playing Chess who has one Knight vs. a Queen, two Rooks and a Bishop accidentally knocking the board over. OPPS. 

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

You are defeated, I understand. Its like a man playing Chess who has one Knight vs. a Queen, two Rooks and a Bishop accidentally knocking the board over. OPPS. 

Yep, you did make a mess. God bless, bro. TYL.

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, Uriah said:

Yep, you did make a mess. God bless, bro. TYL.

I made him go silent folks, you can always tell when the debate is lost, they always go silent. I wouldn't argue a point, then get defeated and cower behind excuses like "IT WAS TOO LONG".........at least come up with something like my dogs at the vet, I am too stressed out. 

You can't out debate me on the bible because I don't just play pretend brother, I have been preaching this word for nigh 35 years. 

[Diaste]

On 6/27/2020 at 6:16 AM, Revelation Man said:

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened {Blood of Jesus} to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Not too convincing since this:

"Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered," - Zech 13:7

is quoted by Jesus here:

This very night you will all fall away on account of Me. For it is written:

‘I will strike the Shepherd,

and the sheep of the flock will be scattered." - Matt 26:31

and here:

“You will all fall away, for it is written:

‘I will strike the Shepherd,

and the sheep will be scattered.’" - Mark 14:27 

so the fulfillment of this was before the cross. And the rest could have been fulfilled in 70 AD or from 1939-44. 

[Diaste]

On 6/27/2020 at 7:06 AM, Revelation Man said:

Again, God's vocabulary isn't bound by the way you, I or others see things, He can use verbiage the way He sees fit. Right? 

But tbh, I dont even get your point here, the ones hes making war with here are those in Christ, these are the Martyrs under the Altar that get killed by Satan/Anti-Christ during his 3.5 year Rule, because they refuse to take the Mark of the Beast, he will no doubt kill Jews also, and they are called Saints in Daniel, but this is John and hes talking as you say about those who refuse to take the Mark of the Beast for the Most part. But in Rev. 17, we have a DIFFERENT POINT OF EMPHASIS, that was my point, we have Saints being Jews ad Martyrs being the Christans of Jesus Christ, and the reason is the Harlot's MURDERS is referring to Murders of ALL TIME.........Thus the Saints there are Jews who were killed by the Harlot {False Religions} down through the Ages, you know many Prophets were killed, some by Jews who worshiped False gods, and some Jews by the Babylonians, as they tried to kill Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery flame, but failed because of Jesus. Amen. 

So, God can use verbiage anyway He likes, its up to us to determine what it means.

That misses the point and the question goes unanswered yet again. I'll ask a related question. I have asked this several times and only one person of pretrib epistemology even tried to respond:

"If the pretrib church avoids the 70th week because the 70th week is the wrath of God and 'we are not appointed to wrath', then how can any believers in Jesus Christ be in the 70th week?"

[Diaste]

On 6/27/2020 at 7:06 AM, Revelation Man said:

You do know what a SOLILOQUY is right ? So, men can use soliloquies in Movies/Plays but God can't use a soliloquy in the bible? Really? So, if Rev. 14 is THE HARVEST Chapter, and it is, them how would you tell the story? I think, since everything in Revelation past Rev. 4:1 is THE HEREAFTER, and all three Harvests needs to be told, God using a soliloquy to tell about the Three Harvests is perfect symmetry, he tells first about the Wheat...........then tells about the Pre 70th week Rapture by Jesus in the midst of the End Time story.........then God tells us about the Wicked Tares being BOUND UP in Bundles {Grave} to be burned 1000 years later at the Second Death. The bible is a story about Israel, so we are told about the Jews saved from Petra {144,000 which means 2-4 million Jews} and the Wicked Tares being Slain and placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath. In the middle of the Chapter, the author says, here is what happened to some other Jews who were apart of the Church, they were Raptured by Jesus.

It is 7 years, because the Rapture is INCLUDED, thus everything you understand/see is in error because of that one WRONG TURN. 

You don't know.

Soliloquy: "an act of speaking one's thoughts aloud when by oneself or regardless of any hearers, especially by a character in a play."  But you do this quite a lot, make it up as you go. The above is a very good example of that.