Are the U.S. and Trump the Ones Restraining?

[Revelation Man]

On 12/4/2020 at 11:26 PM, kingdombrat said:

I firmly believe Yeshua is going to return and take those who are alive and those who have already died as Believers in what we understand to be known as the [Rapture].   But I don't believe it is pre-Trib for the fact none of the Apostles and Church Fathers mentioned such a thing.   

In fact, we know that John was released from Patmos when the man who put him there died (Titus Flavius Domitianus) and Trajan released him.   and we know that John spent his remaining years overseeing the Church at Ephesus where he furthered Polycarps and others Discipleship.   And this was years well after he had written what is known today as the Book of Revelation's.   He had ample time to pass down when this [Rapture] would take place especially if it was (pre-Trib).   And from Polycarp's notes to the Church Fathers who followed, there was no belief in what you are trying to claim as [Scripture].

To be honest, I don't get how any Christian can read the bible and not see the Pre 70th week Rapture. It's just common sense, Paul told us it was a SECRET (Musterion) which means Mystery, but in reality it mean a Secret by God's Silence on the subject. Its definition says "God closes the MOUTH".

A deep study of the word would prove this. For starters, the Second Coming of Jesus CAN NOT BE a Surprise, we know that the Beast rules EXACTLY 1260 days. So, how can Jesus' Second Coming be a surprise like the Scriptures say? It can't be. And not understanding the Jewish (especially the Galilean version) Wedding traditions keeps one in the dark as per to what Jesus was speaking about in all of his Wedding parables. For starters, the father of the groom would send him to go get the Bride at the "Midnight hour" usually, thus all the Wedding guests (10 Virgins) need to keep Oil in their lamps and they need to be full, thus the Groom would blow the Shofar/Trump, where all the Guests who were EXPECTING the Wedding would jump up, get their Lamps out, and head to the wedding. If you did not make the Wedding before it started, you were not allowed in, you were SHUT OUT for the 7 Day Event!!

So, the whole Wedding theme is about the Pre 70th week Rapture, where Jesus is sent by the Father, and when he comes he Shouts for his Bride as if it were a LOUD TRUMP, and thus we hear his voice and we go to meet the Lord in the air, just as Rev. 14:14 describes the Harvest of the Church. We are therefore in the Fathers Mansion (Wedding Chambers) for 7 years, just like the Jewish Bride and Groom spend 7 days in the Bridal Chambers before the Marriage Supper. 

Matthew 24:36 But of (1)that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the (2)days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as (3)in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then (4)shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: (5)for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

1.) Jesus doesn't know exactly when the Father is going to send him for his Bride, common sense tells us this CAN NOT BE the Second Coming, Jesus can watch the 70th week events play out and he knows how to count, the Beast has EXACTLY 1260 days to rule on this earth. Not one day more. This is not when God sends him for His bride. 

2.) So, this Jesus showing up is compared to Noah and the Great Flood. Thus its before the Wrath starts.

3.) They were EATING, DRINKING, PARTYING, and giving in Marriage until the FLOOD CAME !! Now, do you think this will be the case when Jesus' Second Coming comes? I don't, there will be over 4 Billion Deaths by that time, NO ONE will be eating, drinking, partying, they will be more akin to those DROWNING in the flood, just before Jesus returns at the Second Coming. The above describes those living in the pre 70th week Rapture Church Age which we are now living in. LOOK AT THEM, can't you see these clowns? I do, they are the smug TV Journalists, the smug Atheists, the people like Bill Gates and George Soros, the Hollywood Types. You see, it doesn't mean as soon as the Rapture happens, the Wrath falls, it means their fates have been sealed, but they don't yet realize it, just like when Noah was shut up in the Ark, and then it began to rain, I bet they laughed for the first 4 or 5 days of rain, but then it hit them, WOW..........Noah was right. The Floods came later, not on the first day, or even the 5th day probably. So, they knew not when the Rapture happened that they would be facing the Wrath of God shortly, thus they were happy go lucky, laughing at all of our warnings unto them. Then it started to "RAIN" in reality, but they did not realize what was about to befall them until much later, even though there fate was sealed.

4.) One is TAKEN and another is LEFT is speaking about the Rapture. Some will be Raptured and some will not. 

5.) Watch for you do not know when your Lord (Jesus) will come. That can only be the Pre 70th week Rapture. We know when the Second Coming happens, exactly 1260 days after the Beast comes to power.

These truths go on and on, but I am in a but of a hurry this morning. 

God Bless.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Guest kingdombrat]

46 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

To be honest, I don't get how any Christian can read the bible and not see the Pre 70th week Rapture. It's just common sense, Paul told us it was a SECRET (Musterion) which means Mystery, but in reality it mean a Secret by God's Silence on the subject. Its definition says "God closes the MOUTH".

A deep study of the word would prove this. For starters, the Second Coming of Jesus CAN NOT BE a Surprise, we know that the Beast rules EXACTLY 1260 days. So, how can Jesus' Second Coming be a surprise like the Scriptures say? It can't be. And not understanding the Jewish (especially the Galilean version) Wedding traditions keeps one in the dark as per to what Jesus was speaking about in all of his Wedding parables. For starters, the father of the groom would send him to go get the Bride at the "Midnight hour" usually, thus all the Wedding guests (10 Virgins) need to keep Oil in their lamps and they need to be full, thus the Groom would blow the Shofar/Trump, where all the Guests who were EXPECTING the Wedding would jump up, get their Lamps out, and head to the wedding. If you did not make the Wedding before it started, you was not allowed in, you were SHUT OUT for the 7 Day Event!!

So, the whole Wedding theme is about the Pre 70th week Rapture, where Jesus is sent by the Father, and when he comes he Shouts for his Bride as if it were a LOUD TRUMP, and thus we hear his voice and we Go to meet the Lord in the air, just as Rev. 14:14 describes the Harvest of the Church. We are therefore in the Fathers Mansion (Wedding Chambers) for 7 years, just like the Jewish Bride and Groom spend 7 days in the Bridal Chambers before the Marriage Supper. 

Matthew 24:36 But of (1)that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the (2)days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as (3)in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then (4)shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: (5)for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

1.) Jesus doesn't know exactly when the Father is going to send him for his Bride, common sense tells us this CAN NOT BE the Second Coming, Jesus can watch the 70th week events play out and he knows how to count, the Beast has EXACTLY 1260 days to rule on this earth. Not one day more. This is not when God sends him for His bride. 

2.) So, this Jesus showing up is Compared to Noah and the Great Flood.

3.) They were EATING, DRINKING, PARTYING, and giving in Marriage until the FLOOD CAME !! Now, do you think this will be the case when Jesus' Second Coming comes? I don't, there will be over 4 Billion Deaths by that time, NO ONE will be eating, drinking, partying, they will be more akin to those DROWNING in the flood, just before Jesus returns at the Second Coming. The above describes those living in the pre 70th week Rapture Church Age we are now in. LOOK AT THEM, can't you see these clowns? I do, they are the smug TV Journalists, the smug Atheists, the people like Bill Gates and George Soros, the Hollywood Types. You see, it doesn't mean as soon as the Rapture happens, the Wrath falls, it means their fates have been sealed, but they don't yet realize it, just like when Noah was shut up in the Ark, and then it began to rain, I bet they laughed for the first 4 or 5 days of rain, but then it hit them, WOW..........Noah was right. The Floods came later, not on the first day, or even the 5th day probably. So, they knew not when the Rapture happened that they would be facing the Wrath of God shortly, thus they were happy go lucky, laughing all of our warnings unto them. Then it started to "RAIN" in reality, but they did not realize what was about to befall them.

4.) One is TAKEN and another is LEFT is speaking about the Rapture. Some will b e Raptured and some will not. 

5.) Watch for you do not know when your Lord (Jesus) will come. That can only be the Pre 70th week Rapture. We know when the Second Coming happens, exactly 1260 days after the Beast comes to power.

These truths go on and on, but I am in a bit of a hurry this morning. 

God Bless.

It's not that we do not see the 70th week, it's that we follow the Words Christ Himself spoke in Matthew 24.

[existential mabel]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You can call it REBELLION all you want to, that was not what Paul stated, you can say it 1 billion times, that only means you don't understand THE FACTS of the verse 1 billion times. You have partook in the KJV mistranslation and RUN WITH IT. The verse means DEPARTURE and it only means REBELLINION to those of you who ASSUME its a Departure of the Faith, and of course the KJV translators (English Church of King James day) was taking a swipe at the RCC, hinting that they were not of the Faith, when Paul never states that, because there was no RCC, of course, and he is speaking about the Church DEPARTING this earth, thus there was no need to FEAR.  the Church of England tortured people, just like the RCC did back in the day, so lets not buy into their squabble and change the scriptures meaning. 

Its common sense that the verse chapter is about the Church Departing. You can call it whatever you want to, when you get to Heave you will see you were in error. So, in essence, you are off kilter, of course you are always off kilter on all things Rapture because you don't get it tbh. But one day you will get it. 

 

God Bless.

can you let me know what version you are referring to  as i have no idea which version you are meaning many thanks

[Diaste]

On 12/5/2020 at 5:42 AM, Justin Adams said:

I think this has been 'personified' by a doctrine or dogma.

I think it is like sand bags being placed to forestall a flood. When the sandbags are removed, then the flood can continue.

Although God is in charge of it all, the 'he' in the passage should be rendered an 'it'.

Just like the sandbags idea. When IT is taken away... etc.

Agree.

I feel it was rendered like it is for a couple reasons. 

Since I know our Father is in complete control of the information He supplies it's possible it's a test of our diligence. 

I also don't think the way it appears in the translation is wrong, it's just murky; not easy to discern and not at all as it appears on the surface, eg.,

NKJ

"He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way."

In the greater context 'taken out of the way' has to mean 'the restraining influence removed.' A little odd as the removal of that influence is actually an 'emergence'.

'He' is taken out of the way of being a roadblock to the return of Jesus, by 'rising on the world stage'. 

Amazing stuff.

 

 

 

[Diaste]

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You can call it REBELLION all you want to, that was not what Paul stated, you can say it 1 billion times, that only means you don't understand THE FACTS of the verse 1 billion times. You have partook in the KJV mistranslation and RUN WITH IT. The verse means DEPARTURE and it only means REBELLINION to those of you who ASSUME its a Departure of the Faith, and of course the KJV translators (English Church of King James day) was taking a swipe at the RCC, hinting that they were not of the Faith, when Paul never states that, because there was no RCC, of course, and he is speaking about the Church DEPARTING this earth, thus there was no need to FEAR.  the Church of England tortured people, just like the RCC did back in the day, so lets not buy into their squabble and change the scriptures meaning. 

Its common sense that the verse chapter is about the Church Departing. You can call it whatever you want to, when you get to Heave you will see you were in error. So, in essence, you are off kilter, of course you are always off kilter on all things Rapture because you don't get it tbh. But one day you will get it. 

 

God Bless.

Here is the Greek:

"3μή τις ὑμᾶς ἐξαπατήσῃ κατὰ μηδένα τρόπον: ὅτι ἐὰν μὴ ἔλθῃ ἡ ἀποστασία πρῶτον καὶ ἀποκαλυφθῇ ὁ ἄνθρωπος τῆς ἀνομίας, ὁ υἱὸς τῆς ἀπωλείας,"

The word above in bold is:

ἀποστασία,n  \{ap-os-tas-ee'-ah}
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy 

It has nothing to do with a mistranslation. Nothing you, or anyone else,  will do or say can change that.

 

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 12/5/2020 at 3:21 AM, Diaste said:

I know this is an older post but I just wanted to say I come to the same conclusion by study of the Greek. I think "comes into being" here is most accurate in light of other scriptures. 'Emerge' captures the sense of the Greek as well.

Any thoughts on why the Scriptures all seem to have it rendered thus:

"but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way." ?

Because of the context. Literally it may be read "come to be out of the midst," but the context indicates a removal, i.e., "it is caused to be taken out..."

Or to put it another way, the context indicates it doesn't come/take itself out voluntarily.

[WilliamL]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

In the greater context 'taken out of the way' has to mean 'the restraining influence removed.' A little odd as the removal of that influence is actually an 'emergence'.

'He' is taken out of the way of being a roadblock to the return of Jesus, by 'rising on the world stage'. 

He is taken out of the midst/way so that the Son of Perdition/Man of Sin can arise, who then is taken out when Jesus returns.

So the topic question remains to be answered: are 1) the one, and 2) the thing restraining 1) Trump and 2) the United States?? That is, those who restrain the "parousia" (2:9) of the Son of Perdition? Who is himself then removed at the Parousia (2:1, 8) of the Lord?

Because I think there is widespread agreement, among Trump-lovers and -haters both, that the present administration is the remaining force in the world that is hindering the global elite from establishing their U.N.-centered global government.

Which, in my opinion, will likely be the 7th head of the Beast who will only "continue for a short time." Rev. 17:10

 

[Revelation Man]

On 12/5/2020 at 12:27 PM, existential mabel said:

can you let me know what version you are referring to  as i have no idea which version you are meaning many thanks

 

Is the Falling Away a false teaching ? 

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500s — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

 

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1500 some odd years.

[Revelation Man]

23 hours ago, Diaste said:

Here is the Greek:

"3μή τις ὑμᾶς ἐξαπατήσῃ κατὰ μηδένα τρόπον: ὅτι ἐὰν μὴ ἔλθῃ ἡ ἀποστασία πρῶτον καὶ ἀποκαλυφθῇ ὁ ἄνθρωπος τῆς ἀνομίας, ὁ υἱὸς τῆς ἀπωλείας,"

The word above in bold is:

ἀποστασία,n  \{ap-os-tas-ee'-ah}
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy 

It has nothing to do with a mistranslation. Nothing you, or anyone else,  will do or say can change that.

apostasia

A1.     Forsake [Verb] kataleipo a strengthened form of leipo, "to leave," signifies
(a) "to leave, to leave behind," e.g., Matt 4:13;
(b) "to leave remaining, reserve," e.g., Luke 10:40;
(c) "to forsake," in the sense of abandoning, translated "to forsake" in the RV of Luke 5:28; Acts 6:2; in Heb 11:27; 2 Pet 2:15, AV and RV. In this sense it is translated "to leave," in Mark 10:7; Mark 14:52; Luke 15:4; Eph 5:31. See LEAVE, RESERVE.

See also : kataleipo

A2.     Forsake [Verb] enkataleipo from en, "in," and kataleipo, denotes
(a) "to leave behind, among, leave surviving," Rom 9:29;
(b) "to forsake, abandon, leave in straits, or helpless," said by, or of, Christ, Matt 27:46; Mark 15:34; Acts 2:27,31 (kataleipo in some mss.); of men, 2 Cor 4:9; 2 Tim 4:10,16; by God, Heb 13:5; of things, by Christians (negatively), Heb 10:25. See LEAVE.

See also : enkataleipo

A3.     Forsake [Verb] aphiemi sometimes has the significance of "forsaking," Mark 1:18; Mark 14:50 (RV, "left"); so Luke 5:11. See FORGIVE.

See also : aphiemi

A4.     Forsake [Verb] apotasso primarily, "to set apart" (apo, off, "from," tasso, "to arrange"), is used in the Middle Voice, meaning
(a) "to take leave of," e.g., Mark 6:46,
 

See also : apotasso

You can chose to buy into the "FALSE NARRATIVE" that there is a Rebellion or a Revolt, since they "LEFT THE FAITH" But I don't buy it, there is NO FAITH being spoken about, the only thing being spoken about that can apply here(2 Thess. 2) is the "GATHERING UNTO Jesus Christ". Thus the only entity that can LEAVE in this case is the Church, and thus there is no reason to FEAR that one would be going into the Day of the Lord God's Wrath. 

You can take the word "Gay" written by someone in the 1800's and argue with me until you are blue in the face that it meant Homosexuality, but when I showed the the book was talking about a man being happy in the book, via the DESCRIPTIONS, and not being a Homosexual, then of course you would be in error. 

APO means AWAY.......

apo-

pref.

Away from; off:aponeurosis.

The word of course was DEPART in the first 7 translations. There is nowhere in the chapter where Faith is spoken of, I have only asked you 1000 times to show where Faith is spoken of, thus that which DEPARTS is the Church from this earth. We LEAVE this earth. You can keep on going with the modern day translation, like in the Gay example, but you are in error.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

On 12/5/2020 at 10:22 AM, kingdombrat said:

It's not that we do not see the 70th week, it's that we follow the Words Christ Himself spoke in Matthew 24.

And Paul told you it was NEVER GIVEN by anyone, it was a Mystery only given unto Him. Jesus does tell us in parables. Its common sense, the Rapture can only be Pre 70th week. Read Rev. 4:4, we see the Church there BEFORE the Seals are opened. Read Rev. 5:9 who are the REDEEMED ? The Church and they are in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Revelation Man