Postmillennialism: Christendom's Bright Cheerful View Of The Future Of The Human Race.

[Wayne222]

All we have to be concern with first and foremost is the dead will rise and we will be with the lord forever . And we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is. We shall be glorified.  But it is fun to discuss the different possibilities. 

[dhchristian]

10 minutes ago, JAG** said:

My view is that Postmillennialism is in perfect harmony with "Love

rejoices with the truth" in Romans 13:11

I Look at the fruit as my first comment here speaks of. The fruit of this teaching is the church millitant and all of its fornications such as the crusades, the inquisition and the Killing of dissenters such as the Anabaptists. You shall know a tree by its fruit... bad fruit, bad tree. Post mill teachings have shed the blood of the saints around the world, all in the name of the church triumphant, So for me it is a no brainer why we should reject post mill eschatology. Not to mention the antisemitism it inspires Or replacement theology as you find in some circles of the post mill views. 

Even today, post mill teachings such as dominionism and Kingdom now are preaching this same take over of the political system. Theocratic utopias are prone to failure as much as secular ones, and the persecutions can be even worse in them for they have "divine backing" think Hitler only with a religion supporting his reign of terror. This is not the Kingdom of heaven but the kingdom of hell and the wrath of the dragon. 

Many Prophecy scholars fail to see the religious element in the beast of Rev. 13, Yes he is the "lawless one" but he will be a religious figurehead as well with the backing of the false prophet, who will confirm his "god appointed" role with false signs and wonders. So strong will this delusion be that if it were possible, it would deceive the very elect ( Matthew 24:24, 2 Thess 2:9-12) NOWHERE in 70 ad did things like this occur. Yes Nero was a Despot, a tyrant, but he did not have a false prophet having fire come down from heaven to kill those who failed to worship him, He just killed for the sake of power and pride. And even as big as the roman empire was, it was not global in scope. You had empires in china, Mongolia, and the Americas that were immune to their influence. But it is only recently that the full scale of globalism can be accomplished with the technology of today. Coincidentally it is also today that the nation of Israel, the fig tree has grown its leaves once again, and again coincidentally it was that same year that the "fallen ones" began to manifest in the world.... The ones who knew it was too early for judgement to come when Jesus walked the earth, which will be loosed for a season to be judged, and even now are influencing and speeding the beast technology of the modern era.... Don't believe this? Look it up. The World calls them "ancient aliens" and UFO's, We know them as fallen angels, the ones who taught mankind all manner of wickedness. But if you have never read the book of Enoch you would not know this. Curiously too, that book supports pre-millennialism, which is why it was hidden from the church for centuries. I am not saying it is scripture, but there is truth there, which dates to the time of Christ and earlier in its understandings of the end times.  

[JAG**]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

Yup, yup, yup and another yup in case I counted wrong.

:-)

This part is what I most hope, in these discussions, that will be kept in

mind and regularly accessed.

The human dynamic associated with our faith and those strong beliefs that

fuel it, inevitably give rise, at times--to an exposure of the earthen vessel

that holds the treasure. This is actually the way it is supposed to be. We all

desire the 'treasure within the earthen vessel' to shine all the more for its

Glory. I picture an analogy there. Where the fruits of the Spirit can shine

within the context of disagreement. God is pleased with this, as He know

full well all of the pitfalls and more.

There are no entities in this Creation, that are so blessed--to have this

Life--Christ Life within--and ever available to draw on with hearts and

minds. Every interaction, is potential to be further changed into His

likeness. This is most marvelous and all of our controversies pale

before it.

Alive,  I read all that carefully.

Agreed. So true.

Say, I have a question:

Who are the Mods here at Worthy? I looked on the Home Page

but could not find the names of the Mods. Are you a Mod? 

With regard to closing this thread you said,

"Because I don't think its called for...besides folks from various

positions are having an opportunity to express themselves."___Alive

Why do you think some here at Worthy want to shut down Free Speech?

It is not even arguable that these 4 are orthodox Bible believing Christian beliefs.

  Postmillennialism
  Amillennialism
  Premillennialism
  Dispensationalism

Its puzzling that some would want to shut down Free Speech and

shut down personal freedoms to present orthodox Eschatological 

views.

/just asking 

JAG

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by JAG**

[Alive]

21 minutes ago, JAG** said:

Alive,  I read all that carefully.

Agreed. So true.

Say, I have a question:

Who are the Mods here at Worthy? I looked on the Home Page

but could not find the names of the Mods. Are you a Mod? 

With regard to closing this thread you said,

"Because I don't think its called for...besides folks from various

positions are having an opportunity to express themselves."___Alive

Why do you think some here at Worthy want to shut down Free Speech?

It is not even arguable that these 4 are orthodox Bible believing Christian beliefs.

  Postmillennialism
  Amillennialism
  Premillennialism
  Dispensationalism

Its puzzling that some would want to shut down Free Speech and

shut down personal freedoms to present orthodox Eschatological 

views.

/just asking 

JAG

 

I am not sure if the Mods are listed somewhere or not. There are several and after a while you will realize who they are--I think.

Some prefer to be more or less anonymous. I tried to do that, but I found it more confusing to folks.

Yes--George made me a mod with awesome powers.

LOL

I will treat your question as rhetorical. People do what people do. There are salvation related doctrinal conversations that go on here, that I would prefer not be visible, but this is not viable.

Some stuff can be confusing to young and vulnerable saints, but we must trust the Lord there and trust that the Holy Spirit will shine the Truth into hearts.

Wrong teaching, can be a springboard for right and provide a contextual contrast, that is in itself often instructive. Navigating these things is not always easy--this is true. For myself, I am a pastor/teacher in heart and I find Christian Forums (which I am new to) to be a challenging environment, but I do believe that the Lord uses it. After all--the inter-web is world wide and has enormous potential to reach souls for planting, watering and harvest. As in many things, we must paddle through the calm waters as well as the troubled.

I take my role here as a service to any and all and do so before my Lord. It is a privilege.

Truly....Maranatha! We are all waiting to hear that shout and trumpet sound. We have all been made to be sons of the Most High.

[JAG**]

29 minutes ago, Alive said:

I am not sure if the Mods are listed somewhere or not. There are several and

after a while you will realize who they are--I think.

Some prefer to be more or less anonymous. I tried to do that,

but I found it more confusing to folks.

Yes--George made me a mod with awesome powers.

LOL

I will treat your question as rhetorical. People do what people do.

There are salvation related doctrinal conversations that go on here,

that I would prefer not be visible, but this is not viable.

Some stuff can be confusing to young and vulnerable saints, but we

must trust the Lord there and trust that the Holy Spirit will shine the

Truth into hearts.

Wrong teaching, can be a springboard for right and provide a contextual

contrast, that is in itself often instructive. Navigating these things is not

always easy--this is true. For myself, I am a pastor/teacher in heart and

I find Christian Forums (which I am new to) to be a challenging environment,

but I do believe that the Lord uses it. After all--the inter-web is world wide

and has enormous potential to reach souls for planting, watering and harvest.

As in many things, we must paddle through the calm waters as well as the troubled.

I take my role here as a service to any and all and do so before my Lord. It is a privilege.

Truly....Maranatha! We are all waiting to hear that shout and trumpet sound. We have

all been made to be sons of the Most High.

 

``Alive,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions. Much appreciated.

I read all you wrote carefully. Agreed. Good points, all.

JAG

 

``

[Alive]

24 minutes ago, JAG** said:

``Alive,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions. Much appreciated.

I read all you wrote carefully. Agreed. Good points, all.

JAG

 

``

You betcha. I still want to get around to replying to Josheb as I said I would. I am gathering my thoughts a bit at a time, while doing other things.

I for one, have found this conversation regarding Preterism and postmillennialism interesting. I am unconvinced and frankly not interested to any large degree. I reckon, its just not my thing. Never has been--until recently, to a degree because these end time conversations are so many here.

I would much rather see more interest and focus of soteriology and our ongoing walk with our Lord, but the juice seems to be in the controversy.

It is what it is.

:-)

[JAG**]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

You betcha. I still want to get around to replying to Josheb

as I said I would. I am gathering my thoughts a bit at a time,

while doing other things.

I for one, have found this conversation regarding Preterism and

postmillennialism interesting. I am unconvinced and frankly

not interested to any large degree. I reckon, its just not my thing.

Never has been--until recently, to a degree because these end time

conversations are so many here.

I would much rather see more interest and focus of soteriology and

our ongoing walk with our Lord, but the juice seems to be in the

controversy.

It is what it is.

:-)

"the juice seems to be in the controversy"___Alive

Ah that is so true. I have seen Forums die from lack of

controversy. Boredom sets in. Posters can give each 

other "Yeah That's" for just so long before they start

to "doze off" , , , LOL , , , I saw a once active Christian Forum 

ban the discussion of ALL Politics AND  the Eternal Security

issue and then went on to ban ANY  debate. Seriously! They

banned ALL  debate --- and went to positive discussion only.

They did this in order to reduce the work load of the Mods

who were having to work very hard to keep the hostility from 

"running wild" --- and they succeeded but the Forum

died from lack of interest by which I mean from lack of

controversy.  /Big Grin

Thanks for your comments.

Take care.

JAG

 

 

 

 

[Alive]

5 minutes ago, JAG** said:

"the juice seems to be in the controversy"___Alive

Ah that is so true. I have seen Forums die from lack of

controversy. Boredom sets in. Posters can give each 

other "Yeah That's" for just so long before they start

to "doze off" , , , LOL , , , I saw a once active Christian Forum 

ban the discussion of ALL Politics AND  the Eternal Security

issue and then went on to ban ANY  debate. Seriously! They

banned ALL  debate --- and went to positive discussion only.

They did this in order to reduce the work load of the Mods

who were having to work very hard to keep the hostility from 

"running wild" --- and they succeeded but the Forum

died from lack of interest by which I mean from lack of

controversy.  /Big Grin

Thanks for your comments.

Take care.

JAG

Yup--all true and valid and I agree, as well.

:-)

I will add then, to my comment to say, I would prefer that there be a 50/50 split.

 

[JAG**]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

Yup--all true and valid and I agree, as well.

:-)

I will add then, to my comment to say, I would

prefer that there be a 50/50 split.

 

I hear ya. 

My view: We gotta have Fun on the Internet. I have learned over the

years to not allow words on a screen to "get to me."  I don't care

what they post, I don't allow mere words on a monitor screen to ever

"get to me" emotionally. And I post on Political Forums in the Religion

Departments where the atheists love to hang out and insult Christians 

and mock and ridicule them. I respond to their posted insults with positive

helpful quotes {I love to post Tolkien quotes} and I post Bible verses too.

And other cheerful messages under their nasty insults as if they had never

even posted that stuff. The good news is I get to share the gospel with them

and I get to put John 3:16 in front of them --- in one form or another. And

believe it or not, most often the atheists will end up apologizing for their

ugly nasty hateful  talk and cut it out -- at lest for awhile anyway , ,  LOL.

I know one thing the atheists on the Internet At Large are one unhappy

bunch of people. They HATE and despise the God-That-Does-Not-Exist and

they blame  Him for all the evil in the world. Anyway I put a lot of good stuff

in front of them --- mainly Bible verses and some heavy theological stuff too.

I am trying to turn the atheists into good Baptists who are also Postmillennialists. LOL /just kidding.  , , , Edit: Well on second thought maybe NOT kidding. 

Take Care.

God Bless.

JAG

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by JAG**

[JAG**]

42 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Yes, I read it. I'm not really interested in rewarding posters for bringing there prior dissatisfactions and conflicts into other ops. If it is rewarded the tendency becomes entitlement to repeat the practice. I doubt anyone wants me to go around to every op and demand they answer inquiries not addressed in prior conversations. Your op, though; you feel free to engage whatever digression you like but I encourage you to remember your original intent was to assert the optimism (trust, faith, victorious mindset) uniquely inherent to Postmillennialism. Easy to get sidetracked; especially when so many so easily digress. It's difficult enough when the conversation turns toward partial-preterism, instead of Postmillennialism. That's why I've endeavored to show how the fulfillment of prophesy has already shown the victory of God through Christ, especially over the covenant-breaking Jerusalem, but more so the failure of Adam to rule and obey and his failure to overcome the law of sin and death (if you sin then you die). In Christ we have the privilege of obedience. 

Something you may be aware of, at least intuitively, but may have read little about, even by the Reconstructionists: Jesus did not rule over creation simply or solely because he was the Son of God by, through, and for whom all had been created; Jesus was able to rule and subdue because he was a sinless man. As a sinless man, a man who now no sin, he was entitled to all the power and authority originally bestowed upon Adam and Eve at Genesis 1:26-28. Luke records Jesus sending 70 of his disciples out to preach the gospel of the kingdom of God and they returned amazed in their ability to cast out demons. His response is poignant. 

Luke 10:18-20
“I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.  Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.  Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

We are not those 70 disciples but by extension we have the same authority and power. Many here in Worthy disagree. There is a currently open op asking folks about Satan's defeatedness and many (a minority, praise God!) are arguing he remains a threat to Christians. They apparently will not accept the truth of Luke 1:19. I doubt any in that minority are Postmils. I would further venture to say all of them are Dispensationalists, although that may be unfair to our dispy siblings in Christ because I suspect many in the majority are Dispensationalists and not Postmil. 

When we rise each morning what is our fundamental disposition? What do we think about the world? What do we believe about or place in this world as the light of that world, the wheat planted among the weeds (a curious metaphor for those who tend lawns )? Some get up believing Christ is not reigning and/or is not enthroned. Some awake believing satan is still in charge. One poster explicitly posted satan is besting God when it comes to saving souls! Some get looking forward to the world going to hell in a handbasket! They literally look forward to God destroying his own creation, handing it over to satan, and having Christ's thousand-year reign end in rebellion (failure). 

And there are those of us who believe the exact opposite in every one of these regards. If any poster sincerely respects you and truly wants an answer to the partial-preterist view of the beast's prophet they won't hijack your op and they'll post a separate op respectfully inviting prets to answer and address the inquiry without baiting. The prets here are sufficiently diverse and articulate, not worried. It is very clear from these posts there is a lack of knowledge pertaining to Postmillennialism and your resources provide an opportunity for anyone with an interest to now know where to look because, as I noted in a previous post, relying on oppositional (biased) sources is not wholly informative. 

So I encourage you not to let posters distract, digress, or hijack this otherwise very good and informative op.

Josheb, thanks for your comments up there.  I can understand  your points.

My view of Internet threads is they are impossible to keep on topic without

severe sustained moderation which would most likely kill the thread. Thread-drift

is just a part of life on the Internet. But I DO understand your concerns.

Thanks for your kind words regarding my Opening Post. I'm glad you appreciate it.

One of my purposes in this thread is to stimulate a general interest in Postmillennialism

and sub-topics like the "Beast" and John's "antichrists" are very popular in current 

Christian eschatological literature --- and I was hoping to get at least one {1} person 

interested in doing some personal study on the Postmillennial Eschatological System.

People are interested in difference aspects of the End Times issue and the "Beast" is at

the top of the their list. Then cometh john's "antichrists."

I think the "Beast" and John's "antichrists" have died a natural death in this thread

anyway  , , ,/grin  . . .

You made some very interesting points up there. I will have to give them some thought

before I can make even 1/2 way intelligent comments on them.

I encourage you to stay on the topics you mentioned and I am pulling for your

success in getting all your points across.  This thread may, or may not, be near the end?

To tell you the truth, I am surprised it has lasted this far  and I give YOU the credit

for that. 

Regarding "Reconstruction" -- I  know just a little bit about Rushdooney but I have

never taken any of that seriously. . I don't know if you are referring to Rushdoony

or not? 

Good post up there.

I will read it again later.

Best

JAG

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by JAG**