Gideon Posted July 12, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2020 Many in the body of Christ have seen the words of Paul and James at odds with one another, even while believing that the Bible cannot contradict itself. It has to do with works...... fruits of our salvation. Here is what James is basically stating: You show me your faith without your works and I will show you mine BY my works. In today's spiritual climate, many people on cue will start shouting "legalism!" Let me be perfectly clear. We do not earn our salvation by works. Nor do we keep it by doing works. So how do we align James statement with grace? Where are the works he talks about to originate? The answer? The indwelling Holy Spirit who has promised to cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure. God possessing us and acting as the master potter in our lives, changing us from self-centered individuals given to sin and displaying our fallen nature to love filled, joyful saints walking as overcomers in this life. But this explanation of James might now line up more closely with Paul, but it in no way satisfies the dilemma. It exacerbates it many-fold. Why? Because it reveals our great lack. We as His people, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, are supposed to love one another as Christ loved the church. We do not. Yet how many there are who try to defend our indefensible position. They lean upon our excuse that we are only human and no one is perfect. But we are not talking perfection but fruitfulness! We are not called to do better once we are saved. Nor are we called to be nicer people. We are simply the lumps of clay that God has promised to fashion into masterpieces displaying his skills as a potter. What we are lacking is seeing the fulfillment of the promise our God has clearly made to us to fill us with spiritual fruits, to sanctify us wholly, body soul and spirit. You see, it is to be by these changes that our God brings about in us, that the world can see the light of Jesus IN US, and those that love the light will come to the source of that light... Jesus Himself. And guys, it is time we admit we are far, far from that, as the world simply mocks us for our shallowness and religious hypocrisy. We want to recoil in denial, but our actions speak far louder than any arguments we can muster. Here is the truth that most cannot admit..... yet. We cannot yet see it, but soon, our eyes will be opened to some harsh realities. Please understand, they will be hard to own up to, but to those who do, God comes with healing, hope, and yes, mind-blowing changes as to who we are and how we interact with the world around us. Ready? We are those who draw near to Him with our lips but our hearts are far from Him. We are those who are healed only slightly, saying 'peace, peace' when we have no peace We are those possessing a form of godliness, but our lives deny the power of it to a world desperately in need of light from a city set on a hill. We are playing church, with our hearts totally unburdened from the weight of men's eternal souls bound for an eternity without Christ. We are the salt that has lost its savor, and currently, we are good for nothing but to be trodden underfoot by a world that despises our hypocrisy. We are those whohear the Word "Laodecia" and our spiritual hackles go full ballistic, never realizing that such a response is exactly what the Laodecians would have done. Like them, we too claim that because we have grace, we need nothing when the very grace we say we love isxsupposed to teach us to deny ungodliness and wordly lusts and to fill us with love for others, even our enemies. Before you get too overwhelmed with hopelessness or awash with righteous anger, God has promised to restore what the cankerworm has eaten. He has assured us Hecwill pour out upon us the very same Spirit in the very same measure as He did on the early disciples. But we must know this. It will not just "happen". His move upon His own will happen as a response to our cry. Only when we finally have had enough of religion, of head knowledge of doctrines with no heart knowledge of servanthood, only when we see ourselves as wretched men, forgiven but still enslaved to our carnal natures, and no longer be willing to accept it, will God move upon us and set us free indeed, just as He promised. Saints, a revival IS coming. An outpouring unprecedented since the day of pentecost. Tbe sheep and goats have been kept in the same pasture long enough. The valley of decision is fast approaching. Here one decision is to be made. Just one. Will we love our lives, our goals, our dreams, our religious correctness,our ndealt with and secret sins, or will we fall at the feet of our master, saying As the Word tells us, the day is far spent, the night is at hand, and we are not still not saved. Oh, we may still be heaven bound, but with hearts bound to sin's power and grip. Free indeed is but a myth to us, for unbelief in our God's ability to deliver us from US now rules the roost. And the fox approaches..... O Lord, hear us! Subdue our iniquities! Father, change us, fill us, free us, even as you promised! Even so Lord Jesus, restore us to being your bride without spot or wrinkle, ready to meet her soon coning king. Blessings, Gideon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy D. Mouse Posted July 12, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 108 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2020 Look at the intro to James' letter. I'm a Gentile. Seems not addressed to me. But it's scripture, has good stuff in it - I heard Luther called it an epistle of straw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlade Posted July 12, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,234 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,134 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1961 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Song playing "No one like our God". Faith with out works. So many times I read these things posted in forums. Yet.. what is FAITH.. what is WORKS? Again s many times its just left hanging. Even within your post there is doubt and yet you talk of faith and works? Praise GOD See I know what my GOD says about me. I AM the righteousness of God. I am in right standing with my Father through Christ Yeshua. I have the mind of Christ who thought it not robbery to be called equal with God. I have His Joy.. His peace, His strength, His armor and He up holds me with His right hand of righteousness. Best news ever.. The fights already been won. (love that song playing) Its what He says about me.. its always FAITH! And my brother faith works both ways. If you keep calling those things that be not as though they were and you shall have it. I mean about the 30+ "we". This next part.. lts like.. no matter what you say.. TAG YOUR IT! haha pfft Gid.. in love.. you added to the word of God. No where in Rev 3 14-22 do we see or is it even hinted at "grace". That city was very rich.. that Church was very rich and they had need of nothing. The fact Christ told them to what? Buy from me " gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear," Again.. nothing about "grace only" Christ spoke exactly what He meant. There is no "well He could have also meant". No.. We know this Church. Now if you want to say some today are lukewarm.. amen. But it was unwise to add to that book something He never said. To then inject your own personal believe about grace into Rev 3 14-22 to His Children. The Father is doing so many wonders in the world. So many are coming back to God.. putting Him first. Repenting of the past.. the Church becoming what it once was. Millions of millions getting born again. And yet hundreds of thousands being persecuted and killed. The out pouring of the holy Spirit....its happening. Whats happening today was not of God.. oh but WOW how its being used for HIS GLORY! More praying coming back to Him.. SO AWESOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy D. Mouse Posted July 12, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 108 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) "This is the work of God; that you believe in the one that He has sent" PISTEUO -believe, PISTIS = Faith Faith can be said to be a WORK; based on what Jesus said. And yet people say "Oh, no, Faith is not a work!" Edited July 12, 2020 by Buddy D. Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted July 12, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Episcopius said: Look at the intro to James' letter. I'm a Gentile. Seems not addressed to me. But it's scripture, has good stuff in it - I heard Luther called it an epistle of straw Well, then you can carry a very thin Bible, which is really convenient, seeing that all the gospels were not written to gentiles either. ? If Luther said that, i suspect his mind has now been changed. blessings, Gids 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted July 12, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Episcopius said: "This is the work of God; that you believe in the one that He is sent" PISTEUO -believe, PISTIS = Faith Faith can be said to be a WORK; based on what Jesus said. And yet people say "Oh, no, Faith is not a work!" Anyone who has truly entered his good fight of faith will back that up. Growing our faith is not easy, but the reward is well worth it. Gids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy D. Mouse Posted July 12, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 108 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) I suspect that, too, gids, in any case, it is up to you to reconcile Paul with this "right strawey epistle" Edited July 12, 2020 by Buddy D. Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy D. Mouse Posted July 12, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 108 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2020 I would not say that the gospels were written to non-Gentiles. Luke, especially, a Gentile himself, addresses Theophilus - whether that is a real person, or "lover of God" - Luke addressed both his gospel and Acts to Theophilus, whom many think was an actual person and a Gentile. Luke and Acts are a good chunk of the NT. My Bible is getting thicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted July 12, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, TheBlade said: Song playing "No one like our God". Faith with out works. So many times I read these things posted in forums. Yet.. what is FAITH.. what is WORKS? Again s many times its just left hanging. Even within your post there is doubt and yet you talk of faith and works? Praise GOD See I know what my GOD says about me. I AM the righteousness of God. I am in right standing with my Father through Christ Yeshua. I have the mind of Christ who thought it not robbery to be called equal with God. I have His Joy.. His peace, His strength, His armor and He up holds me with His right hand of righteousness. Best news ever.. The fights already been won. (love that song playing) Its what He says about me.. its always FAITH! And my brother faith works both ways. If you keep calling those things that be not as though they were and you shall have it. I mean about the 30+ "we". This next part.. lts like.. no matter what you say.. TAG YOUR IT! haha pfft Gid.. in love.. you added to the word of God. No where in Rev 3 14-22 do we see or is it even hinted at "grace". That city was very rich.. that Church was very rich and they had need of nothing. The fact Christ told them to what? Buy from me " gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear," Again.. nothing about "grace only" Christ spoke exactly what He meant. There is no "well He could have also meant". No.. We know this Church. Now if you want to say some today are lukewarm.. amen. But it was unwise to add to that book something He never said. To then inject your own personal believe about grace into Rev 3 14-22 to His Children. The Father is doing so many wonders in the world. So many are coming back to God.. putting Him first. Repenting of the past.. the Church becoming what it once was. Millions of millions getting born again. And yet hundreds of thousands being persecuted and killed. The out pouring of the holy Spirit....its happening. Whats happening today was not of God.. oh but WOW how its being used for HIS GLORY! More praying coming back to Him.. SO AWESOME! Thank you Blade for your perspective. As to the Laodecians, you are assuming it was all about money. It is not. It is about a spiritual attitude that declares "I have need of nothing." Let me just say here that we disagree. As to the church doing wonderfully, do you know when we will absolutely know that to be true? God spoke in Ezekiel 36 that the heathen will know that He is the Lord, when He shall be sanctified in us before their eyes.... visible holiness, palpable fruits. When men exclaim to one another "Behold how they love one another", we will know we as His bride are where we are supposed to be. When men blurt out in fear "They that have turned the whole world upside down have come here also!" we can be assured Fod is indeed moving again amongst us. We cannot escape the need for broken hearts. Individually, a man can most certainly be full of joy, living as an overcomer, victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil, but God never meant us to be healthy arms or legs or big toes. Overall, His church is divided, carnal, contentious, shallow, worldly and filled with hypocrisy. Despite our denial of need, the truth is that we are in no way ready to meet our savior. Brokenness must come if we are ever to lay bare our hearts and seek for God to fulfill His promises to us to transform us as ONE body into a vessel fit for His use. Right now, we are far more like the builders of tower of Babel, each speaking bis own 'Christian dialect', chafing at other brothers for not seeing things as clearly as we do. The tower must come down. The first tremors, shakings of our foundations that are not fully Christ Himself, , are now beginning. More will soon follow, even by year's end. Our pride and contentment without godliness must be replaced by humility, meekness and a deep hunger to see Jesus glorified in both our words as well as our actions. We are about to see with our own eyes, and yes, praise God, be a part of, the greatest move of God in history. The time of the harvest approaches. Let us, as Paul exhorts, lay aside everything that would hinder us to be used by our God to fulfill His purposes for us, through us. Amen and amen. blessings, Gids Edited July 13, 2020 by Gideon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted July 12, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, Episcopius said: I would not say that the gospels were written to non-Gentiles. Luke, especially, a Gentile himself, addresses Theophilus - whether that is a real person, or "lover of God" - Luke addressed both his gospel and Acts to Theophilus, whom many think was an actual person and a Gentile. Luke and Acts are a good chunk of the NT. My Bible is getting thicker. Perhaps it would be good if we became like oxen and began to eat the words God offers us through James that Luther referred to as "straw". ? All scripture is profitable, amen? blessings, Gids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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