The Pre Tribulation Raptured Church

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

YOU REALLY WANT TO DO THIS CIRCLE AGAIN?  
 

SUBJECT

1  We implore now you brothers by the coming of the Lord of us Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him

2  for not quickly to be shaken you in mind nor to be troubled neither by spirit nor by word nor by letter as if by us
 1 THESSALONIANS

as that is present the day of the Lord  


PROBLEM

3 No one you should deceive in not one way because {it is} if not {until} shall have come the apostasy first AND shall have been revealed the man of lawlessness the son of destruction

DECEPTION COMING OUR WAY, and we will experience it  BUT CHRIST WILL NOT RETURN UNTIL AFTER THOSE THINGS AND WHEN CHRIST RETURNS He will slay with the breath of the mouth of Him

Now you are going to say "man" and that isn't Satan, and want to get into who "man" is and do the whole circle thing
to EXPLAIN to me why Christ will come before Satan, and
WE JUST DON'T AGREE.  PRODUCED NOTHING THAT MAKES ME BELIEVE WHAT IS PUT FORTH IS GODS TRUTH 
so no need to do that again anyone can go read what we wrote the first time around.  Anything new?  or are the same things going to be brought up once again? 
 

WHAT DOES THAT MAN OF LAWLESSNESS, THAT SON OF DESTRUCTION, THE ONE OPPOSING AND EXALTING HIMSELF DO?
4  the {one} opposing and exalting himself above every so-called god or object of worship so as for him in the temple of God to sit down setting forth he himself that is God
SATAN IS THAT MAN.  The Adversary 

 

5  Not do you remember that yet being with you these things I was saying to you?
THESE ARE THE THINGS PAUL WAS SAYING

6  And now that which is restraining you know for to be revealed him in his time. 
Satan REVEALED AFTER HE IS KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN, AND THERE IS A WAR THAT MUST TAKE PLACE BEFORE HE IS KICKED OUT.  AND THAT IS A HUGE RESTRAINT.  

7  The for mystery already is working of lawlessness only {there is} the {one} restraining {it} at present until out of {the} midst he might be {gone}
BUT EVIL SPIRITS AND MEN ARE WORKING NOW.  YET IT IS Michael  restraining Satan, and then "in his time" he will no longer be in the midst of heaven

8  And then will be revealed the lawless {one} whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of the mouth of Him and will annul by the appearing of the coming of Him
Satan kicked out and then revealed.  After that is when the Lord Jesus returns/comes Satan will be annulled


whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of the mouth of Him and will annul by the appearing of the coming of Him, whose is coming according (2596) to {the} working of Satan


whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of the mouth of Him and will annul by the appearing of the coming of Him, whose is coming AGAINST  to {the} working of Satan


2596 kata
down, against, 

 

9  whose is coming AGAINST to {the} working of Satan in every power and in signs and in wonders of falsehood
CHRIST WILL DESTROY SATAN AND ALL HIS POWERS AND SIGNS AND WONDERS AND FALSEHOOD FOR 1000 YEARS.  THE LORDS DAY.  WHEN HE RETURNS AS HE LEFT.  HE WASN'T 1/2 WAY UP IN THE AIR, HE WAS ON THE EARTH.  

10  and in every deceit of wickedness unto those perishing in return for which the love of the  truth not they received in order for to be saved them.
AND THERE WILL BE THOSE WHO PERISH SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DID NOT/WOULD NOT RECEIVE the love of the truth, the truth needed to be saved.  

11  And because of this will send God a working of delusion for to believe them what {is} false
WE CAN LOVE AND BELIEVE IN THE TRUTH OR DELUSION/FALSE TEACHINGS/THEORIES.    

12  in order that should be judged all those not having believed the truth but having delighted in unrighteousness
 

13  We however ought to give thanks to God always concerning you brothers beloved by {the} Lord that has chosen you God from {the} beginning unto salvation in {the}sanctification of  {the} Spirit and {by} faith of {the} truth

14  to this also He called you through the gospel of us to {the} obtaining of {the} glory of the Lord

15  So then brothers stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught whether by word or by letter from us
You got some truth now and you have gotten it by us in person or in writing. 

16  Himself now the Lord of us Jesus Christ and God the Father of us the {One} having loved us and having given {us} comfort eternal and hope good by grace
 

17  may He encourage your hearts and may He strengthen {them} in every work and word good

 

WORDS GOD USES ARE WORKS AND LABORS AND DEEDS  THAT IS WHAT HE WANTS FROM US.  HE IS NOT TAKING A "SECTION" AND TELLING THEM THEY ARE "EXCUSED FROM" WHAT EVERY MAN MUST FACE   

DEATH AND JUDGMENT


YOU HAVE ASKED ME TWICE NOW, PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME AGAIN 
I ALMOST ALWAYS KNOW I AM IN GODS TRUTH  WHEN YOU DISAGREE WITH ME.  

You are far too far out in left field for us to continue. You are WAY out past what I call the NORM of Evangelically Christianity. Case in point: the man if sin is really Satan.  I stick close to what is written. It is useless for us to continue. 

By the way, I can GUESS the answer: Posttribbers must MOVE the marriage to later and on earth.  And pretribbers get blamed for twisting>

[iamlamad]

Just now, The Light said:

If you know so much then why can't you address anything I post with scriptures that prove what I'm saying is wrong.

Why are you doing the usual cut and run when I asked you to pinpoint your problem with Rev 5:6.

I have already answered, "scriptures" run off your back like water. It is useless. We have no point of reference. If I pointed to a scripture, you would have a different meaning for it. NO cutting. No running. I am wise to your ways. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

APPLES AND ORANGES..  YOU SAY CHRONOLOGICAL   I SAY NO.  

WHAT ABOUT MY POSITION ARE YOU NOT GETTING? 

YOU ASK QUESTIONS THAT YOU KNOW COME FROM OUR BASIC DIVIDING OF THE WORD.  

WHATS THE POINT?  

OH, AND I SEE ALL THE LACK OF GODS WORD, IN FAVOR OF ALL YOUR OWN WORDS AGAIN.

Oh, just so you know, the point was, to show that YOU are the one that twists. You are forced into it because you know how impossible it is for posttribbers to get to heaven for the marriage and supper. 

[The Light]

Just now, iamlamad said:

I have already answered, "scriptures" run off your back like water. It is useless. We have no point of reference. If I pointed to a scripture, you would have a different meaning for it. NO cutting. No running. I am wise to your ways. 

You never address anything I post with scriptures. You imagine a bunch of nonsense, and then cut and run, every time.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

YOU MEAN THE ONE AT THE END OF THE LORDS DAY? 

THE ONE RIGHT AFTER THE LAKE OF FIRE? 

SAME WAY EVERYONE WILL.  EXCEPT FOR THOSE ALIVE AND REMAINING WHO ARE CHANGED WHEN THE LORDS DAY BEGINS.  

Wrong. Pretribbers will get to heaven before any part of the 70th week (marked with 7's), so they are ALREADY IN HEAVEN as that large crowd! They are already their AS THE BRIDE. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

DO NOT QUOTE ME IF YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE IT OUT OF CONTEXT.  


THIS WAS A QUESTION I ASKED YOU. 
DO YOU GO TO HEAVEN AFTER EVERYONE UP THERE FIGHTS the war  This is unscriptural; so only imagination.

YOUR RESPONSE IS NOTHING MORE THAN DECEPTION,  DONT DO IT AGAIN.  THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT THE THEORY PRODUCES THAT ARE NOT FOUND IN THE WORD OF GOD WITH OUT IT.  SO THEY ARE VERY VALID BECAUSE JESUS FORETOLD US ALL THINGS AND SINCE HE NEVER EVER EVER EVER ONCE SPOKE OF IT AND PAUL SPECIFICALLY SPOKE AGAINST IT  IT IS ALL DELUSION.  

 

Could we PLEASE just follow the text? Oh! You think the text is all in the wrong order so we CAN'T follow the text. 

Did you not notice that the war in heaven is in chapter 12?

Did you not notice that the huge crowd, too large to number is in chapter 7? 7 comes before 12 in anyone's counting.   This is not deception, it is REALITY. 
WHO fights? Let's look: 

⁷ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Is that plain enough? Michael and the angels fight. 

[iamlamad]

2 minutes ago, The Light said:

You never address anything I post with scriptures. You imagine a bunch of nonsense, and then cut and run, every time.

Your memory is short. That is not the way it has happened. I give good scriptures, you deny their normal meaning. You say they mean something else. You are free to move anything in Revelation anywhere else to fit.  Therefore, we have no point of reference. 
For example, JEsus, the HEAD OF THE CHURCH said to me,

"why did John not see me at the right hand of the father in chapter 4? there are over a dozen verses showing that is where I should have been. Stephen SAW me there." 

His point is easy to see: He was NOT SEEN at the right hand of the father. His further point was, WHY: It was while He was on earth. John was seeing a vision of the past. 

You don't believe that. Well, you WILL one day. You can take that to the bank. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by iamlamad

[Spock]

55 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I have posted word for word, every word God has spoken to be about Revelation at one time or another. I'll be honest, most people seem think I heard from a different spirit. I can only guess, very thick preconceived glasses. They prevent people from understanding even very clear verses. 

Yes, the 70th-week is marked by 7's: how like God!

Notice that those in Judea were told the flee the second that heard or saw the abomination. That fleeing is in 12:6 making 12:6 only seconds after the abomination. 

Why? I think because God has it planned so that the man if sin will declare he is GOD the very same time that Adam's 6000 year lease ENDS. Suddenly Satan will have no more legal hold to planet earth. His ONLY legal hold was that he usurped Adam's lease and with that Adam's authority. 

I think you would be better off to say the 7th trumpet is at the end of the 42 month rule of the Beast, rather than at the midpoint (abomination).  I do not believe heaven is shouting, “the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord” at the abomination (the time the Beast will now be ruling) until Jesus returns to the planet to stay.   That to me makes a lot more sense than your explanation of 6000 years are up at the abomination. Your explanation sounds more like you trying to fit something in in order to promote your beliefs.  Don’t you agree my interpretation to be much more sound and LOGICAL?   You know you do, even if you can’t admit it......  In fact, maybe you got the 7s right but misinterpreted what the Spirit was telling you:

7th seal.....at the abomination....makes sense, this is when heaven was silent when the Beast was resurrected and did his abomination thingy.

7th trumpet......end of the Beast 42 month rule.....and now finally the kingdom of the world is no longer having to be influenced by the false trinity....time is up fellows, go to your corners (hades or abyss). 

7th vial.....at the end of day 1290 (this is just me speculating) 

The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

That's right you still don't get IT

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

THERE IS NO GENTILE CHURCH TODAY.  AT LEAST THERE SHOULDN'T BE. 


THERE ARE TWO PEOPLES   

FAITHFUL BELIEVERS  AND  UNFAITHFUL/NON BELIEVERS.  

WHOM SO EVER WOULD. and 

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

And I will give him the morning star. 

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

HOW DID CHRIST OVERCOME???


IF THERE IS A GROUP OF PEOPLE "CALLING THEMSELVES" GENTILES SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO STUDY THE WHOLE WORD OF GOD OR THINK THEY HAVE NO LAW, THEN THERE ARE SOME REAL DELUSIONS / PROBLEMS HAPPENING

SO MUCH OF WHAT YOU PREDICATE YOUR THEORIES ON ARE IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO SCRIPTURE..

 THIS TRUTH ISN'T LIKE OR ACCEPTED BECAUSE IT MESSES UP THE ENTIRE THEORY  

ISRAEL HAD BEEN SCATTERED TO THE ENTIRE WORLD HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE.  THEY WEREN'T THERE TO REJECT THEIR MESSIAH.  THE TRIBES OF JUDAH, AND BENJAMIN AND SOME LEVI, THE SOUTHERN TRIBES RESIDED IN JUDEA, JERUSALEM. 

THE NORTHEN TRIBES NEVER EVER DID (CERTAINLY SOME, NOT MANY)  WHY DO YOU THINK CHRISTIANITY SPREAD SO FAR AND WIDE?  BECAUSE IT WAS GODS PEOPLE WHO HEARD AND BELIEVED.  HEATHEN TOO.  

SO WHO ARE GODS PEOPLE?
 

Your mind is made up. There is no use to continue. You KNOW you are right, even when proved wrong. What? Do you imagine that the church of today is made up mostly of JEWS? Did you not read?

Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 

What is Paul talking about? THE CHURCH! He is telling us that blindness has happened to Israel, but Gentiles are coming in to the church. 

Romans 16:4
Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

THERE IS NO GENTILE CHURCH TODAY.   it seems PAUL disagrees with you. Paul wrote of Gentile churches. You are simply mistaken. 

If Paul has no trouble calling it a church of the Gentiles, why should we? The truth is, MOST of the church today is made up of Gentiles.  You can deny it till the cows come home, but it will still be truth. 

 

[The Light]

6 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Here is something you wrote:

"Of course I have the Great Tribulation in the seals. That is exactly where it belongs. "

We have been over and over this and you insist you are right, when in fact you are miles off.  Since you don't believe Revelation has any chronology, it is useless for us to discuss. It does not matter at all to you that God warns people not to take the mark (the very thing that will CAUSE days of GT) way back in chapter 14, and that the beheaded (from the days of GT) only show up in chapter 15. These proofs roll off your back like water off a duck's back.
 

Therefore, as I said, it is useless to enter into any kind of discussion with you. 

Right. You quit every single time I produce scripture that proves you are wrong. Please explain, if that isn't the Great Tribulation being talked about in Rev 6:11 WHAT IS IT ?

Rev 6

⁹ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Secondly we have confirmation that it is the Great Tribulation in Rev 7, all of which I have posted before. And of course YOU HAVE FAILED TO ADDRESS, beyond cutting and running. Here we see that the conclusion of the what was talked about in Rev 6:11

Rev 7

¹³ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Then I showed you how the wrath of God is over at the 6th seal, unless you can explain that Christ has not returned yet when the kingdoms of the world are the kingdoms of our Lord.

Rev 11

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Then we have confirmation in Rev 10, unless you can explain why when the mystery of God is finished, AND IT'S REALLY NOT.

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Then we have another view of the Great Tribulaiton In Rev 14

Rev 14

¹³ And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Then we have another view of the coming Jesus in Rev 14, which is the same coming that we see in Rev 6, right before great multitude and the beginning of the wrath of God when the 7th seal is opened

Rev 14

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

¹⁷ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

So how many wraths of God are there? I think one.

But I've already posted these scriptural proofs that the great tribulation is in the seals and we get another view in Rev 14.

So are you going to use scripture to disprove WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS or are you going to cut and run as always without addressing these scriptures?