The Pre Tribulation Raptured Church

[ENOCH2010]

6 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Certainly there are verses that speak of EVENTS posttrib. But that was not the subject. We were talking of the RAPTURE. There is no simple verse that proves Paul's rapture is posttrib or any other trib. 

Case in point: in verse 31 above, or verse 27 in Mark, no one has EVER proved this is Paul's rapture. Indeed, it cannot be: it gathers from heaven while Paul's rapture gathers from earth. It comes after the trib' of those days, while Paul's rapture comes before wrath. 

The gathering from heaven means the gathering in the sky where those in Christ meet the Lord. 

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

FALSE, PURE AND SIMPLE

So show us some scripture. I have shown you how Paul's rapture comes just before wrath, how wrath begins at the 6th seal. 
If you don't start the "trib" or the 70th week at the 7th seal, where then do YOU start it? 

[iamlamad]

Just now, ENOCH2010 said:

The gathering from heaven means the gathering in the sky where those in Christ meet the Lord. 

I don't think that takes in the entire meaning in the Greek. In Mark it is from the furthermost parts of heaven to the furthermost parts of earth. That just does not SOUND like Paul's rapture. Since Paul's gathering is ONLY from the air we breath on earth, it would see MUCH more likely this is a different gathering. But when we consider the timing, it CANNOT be Paul's rapture which will come just before wrath. 

[ENOCH2010]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I don't think that takes in the entire meaning in the Greek. In Mark it is from the furthermost parts of heaven to the furthermost parts of earth. That just does not SOUND like Paul's rapture. Since Paul's gathering is ONLY from the air we breath on earth, it would see MUCH more likely this is a different gathering. But when we consider the timing, it CANNOT be Paul's rapture which will come just before wrath. 

The rapture gathers from heaven and earth, it's simple we meet the Lord in the air. The sky is a big place, the angels gather the group to a single location. 

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

PURE CONJECTURE, NO SCRIPTURE

You want ME to show scripture, but you just talk. I get that.
Ephesians 3:2  If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

There is a DISPENSATION of GRACE. Why would you even imagine WRATH or JUDGMENT would come during grace?

Did you just NOT NOTICE that in Revelation 14 the "everlasting gospel" says NOTHING of the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord. (Paul's Gospel). It says FEAR GOD. Give Glory to Him. 
 

This sounds very OLD Covenant. You see, often God does not come right out and SAY things: He gives HINTS. 

[iamlamad]

Just now, ENOCH2010 said:

The rapture gathers from heaven and earth, it's simple we meet the Lord in the air. The sky is a big place, the angels gather the group to a single location. 

Then you are still in error, if the gathering is after we are all up in the air, NO NEED to say earth." Sorry, your argument is a poor one. It simply does not fit Paul's rapture. Again, there is the timing issue. 

[ENOCH2010]

Just now, iamlamad said:

Then you are still in error, if the gathering is after we are all up in the air, NO NEED to say earth." Sorry, your argument is a poor one. It simply does not fit Paul's rapture. Again, there is the timing issue. 

Are you that dense, we leave the earth and meet in the sky, at the second coming, just as the Bible plainly says. 

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

PURE CONJECTURE

I wrote, Two groups of people get two different results: those in Christ get raptured and escape God's wrath - those in darkness GET His wrath: Paul's sudden destruction earthquake.

All you are tellling us is that you don't understand Paul. 

Do you doubt the catching up? That should be EASY to believe.
Do you doubt God will bring wrath? AGain, that should be easy to believe. 
If we are caught up and wrath is on the earth, why not believe we escape that wrath?
If we are escorted to heaven (John 14) how could we also be in His wrath? 

Did you not follow Paul with the "THEY" and "THEM" and what happens to "them" They get SUDDEN DESTRUCTION. 
 

in other words, BELIEVE IT: it is TRUTH?

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 NO SCRIPTURE, PURE CONJECTURE

OF COURSE it is scripture: did you not notice that there was a strong earthquake in Matthew 27 when God raised the elders of the Old Testament? Did you not notice that there was a HUGE earthquake when God raised the two Witnesses?  I have therefore TWO witnesses that there is going to be an earthquake when God raises the dead in Christ. 

There is yet another proof: when we study Paul's TIMING - rapture then wrath - and see that it fits just before the 6th seal (the START of wrath) and then notice there is an earthquake there at the very same time Paul tells us there will be sudden destruction.....can you add one and one and get two?

[iamlamad]

18 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Did he write the Sabbath?  No.

Did he write the Lords Day?  Yes

I am sure MANY take what is written and make it  "SAY OR MEAN"  SOMETHING else.  

Yes I understand the Mille (1000) NNIUM is something we use for (the day as a thousand years...)  

 IF IT ACTUALLY was the Sabbath, THAT IS WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN.  WAS IT? 

LETS GO BACK AND TAKE A LOOK AND SEE WHAT GOD SAID, NOT MAN, SHALL WE???

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

ITS OFFICIAL  GOD SAID "LORDS DAY", NOT SABBATH

NOW MEN CAN USE THE WISDOM OF MEN AND MAKE IT SAY WHAT EVER THEY WANWILL A LITTLE TWIST HERE AND A LITTLE TWIST THERE.  


ANYONE WHO WISHES   TO ADD   OR   TAKE AWAY    FROM GODS WORD,    I CAN'T STOP EM,  REBUKE EM, YES, I DO

BUT AS FOR ME AND MINE WE WILL TAKE GODS WORD AS

GOD HAVING COMMAND OF THE LANGUAGES AND SO 

GOD SAYING WHAT GOD MEANS

AND NEEDING NO HELP FROM US TO "FIND" THE CORRECT WORDS.  


SOME MEN WILL WANT TO TELL YOU WHAT "IN THE SPIRIT" MEANS AND NOT ONLY THAT

BUT WHAT IT DOESN'T MEAN. 

NO SCRIPTURE TO BACK IT UP, JUST ONE MANS MIND BELIEVING IT IS CORRECT THAN ANYONE ELSES.  

 

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

 

Oh my! Do you not know that the Sabbath is on a SATURDAY? Do you not know that SATURDAY is not SUNDAY? 

ITS OFFICIAL  GOD SAID "LORDS DAY", NOT SABBATH  Yes, and the meaning is clear: SUNDAY. Not Saturday, the Jewish sabbath, but SUNDAY, the first day of the week. 

WILL A LITTLE TWIST HERE AND A LITTLE TWIST THERE.    No one is twisting, but someone is certainly not understanding.  You keep tying this "Lord's day" to His coming to Armageddon! (for some unknown reason.)
 

ANYONE WHO WISHES   TO ADD   OR   TAKE AWAY    FROM GODS WORD,   No one is adding, no one is subtracting, but SOMEONE lacks understanding. 

BUT AS FOR ME AND MINE WE WILL TAKE GODS WORD AS GOD HAVING COMMAND OF THE LANGUAGES AND SO  GOD SAYING WHAT GOD MEANS  You have already proven this is not truth. You saw a "He" meant for the man of sin, and wrote out an arguement that the HE was Satan. Again, someone lacks understanding. 

"IN THE SPIRIT"  Have you ever been "in the spirit." Do you have personal experience?  God has not given us a definition. We can only guess by the context of said scriptures. However, Paul talks of praying "In the spirit" and does define it: praying in tongues. That means praying WITHOUT the assistance of our mind. The prayer comes from the Holy spirit to the Human spirit to the mouth, and bypasses the mind.  That gives us a GOOD hint that being in the spirit means our mind is set aside.

I have been "in the spirit." It was as if my whole body - mind included - was set aside. God was talking to my spirit and my spirit was answering. It was as if I was a bystander. 

What it tells me is that John's BODY stayed on earth, but John - His spirit and soul - went to heaven. 

Have you ever heard of people going into a trance?  They are "in the spirit." Maria Woodworth Etter was preaching up a storm, as we say, when suddenly she was in a trance, and STAYED MOTIONLESS for three days. Then suddenly she was back and continued her sermon. She was "In the spirit." This does not happen much any more. But then, people don't pray in the Spirit much any more either.