Gideon Posted July 25, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) Well this ought to be interesting, right? LOL. Here we go. In these recent years, there has evolved an understanding of grace and what God asks of us that is quite different than what is seen in the Bible itself. We have been taught that we are saved by grace without the need to DO anything, and thus assumed therefore that God thus asks nothing from us. We are wrong. We are saved UNTO good works. But this create a huge dilemma in our minds, for we know how weak we are. What we as His pwople are about to be awakened to is how strong God is willing to be IN us. Jesus tells us to be holy as He is holy. Is holiness possible? Absolutely. However, unbelief has gripped us and we have erroneously concluded real holiness is impossible this side of Heaven. Why? Because when we hear to word 'DO', we think it is by our efforts, by our power, we must do these things. And because we are still walking with fleshly bodies, we have been taught that despite our best efforts, we cannot ever be fully obedient to God's leading inside us. And because of this erroneously assumption, modern Christianity tells us there is not one thing we need to do except wait for Heaven. Yet God tells us that to whom much is given much is required. Who is right? How do we account for the obvious contradictions here? If we are saved by faith, not by any works we can do, then does it not follow that we do not need to DO anything? Can we not just go to church, read our Bibles occasionally, generally be nice people, and it's all good? Not according to the Word. Why would Jesus tell us that we are His friends if we DO the things He commands us? And if there are things we need to actually DO, how do we not fall into the trap of legalism, and end up as slaves to our weak efforts, always coning up short, and end up feeling condemned, having to work for our salvation and yet unable to do what God asks? How do we align the conflict we seem to find with Paul's grace by faith, not by works and James' faith without works is dead? For if we cannot come to the answer, and must choose one or the other, concluding that two apostles of the Lord were in direct disagreement as to salvation, how can we ever have real trust in the inerrancy of the Bible itself? If all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is to be profitable to lead us into all truth, we must know one thing. The conflict is not in the Word, but our understanding of it. But where? Where is the root of our misunderstanding as to our being asked to DO in the Word? I believe it is in our failure to DO the one thing Paul exhorted us to do in Romans 6. Here he tells us the glorious truth that when Jesus died, so did we. Our old nature does not need to die. We need to die to it! As well, Paul tells us the deep truth that when Jesus rose from the dead, we too rose with Him as new creatures. We do not need to grow from being dead to being alive. We ARE new, right this very minute. The problem is, we have stopped there and not done what Paul tells us we must DO with these two great truths in order to see their power activated in our lives. We must appropriate these truths as OUR truths. We must put off our old nature, believing we are no longer that incorrigible rebel. We must hold up our shield of faith that right now, this very minute, we possess new natures, freed from the power of the devil. Saints, we were never meant to be "pew sitters". God desires our walk with Him to be an active 'yoking together' of us with God through the Holy Spirit. God moves, we move. As God is, so are we in this world. This is what is meant by being one with Him, by abiding in Him. This is how we walk where we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. This is where we DO, not because of some legallistic requirements, . but because God actually causes us to walk in full obedience. Wow! Is this actually possible? Is such a walk promised in His Word? Absolutely, and we are about to re-discover the fullness of whst is included in our new covenant. "‘Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean; from all your filthiness and from all your idols will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them. Ezekiel 36:25-27 In these last days, God is beginnig to awaken us to the joy of walking as obedient overcomers, and how even the weakest among us will walk there. Despite our fleshly bodies still clamoring for attention, we are told clearly that we are no longer in the flesh and owe it NOTHING. We are new natured people, temporarily housed in fleshly bodies. We are not saddled with the impossible task of bringing it into subjection by our diligence and efforts. No, praise God, He has made a new way, the way of faith, where we stand on the truth that the old us is dead. Our job? To keep it under. The difference may seem small, but it is huge. In the one, we are in the valley, trying to fight the enemy encamped on the high ground. We are trying to gain the victory. Ahhh, but in the other, we are planted on the highway of holiness, not by our efforts but by faith in what Jesus a tually accomplished for us, and to our amazement and delight, we will find that DOing is not a requirement, but a promise! We will discover that walking as obedient children and bearing fruits for the world to see is our birthright. It comes with the territory. Glory! blessings, Gideon Edited July 25, 2020 by Gideon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted July 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,269 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,891 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2020 30 minutes ago, Gideon said: Well this ought to be interesting, right? LOL. Here we go. You already know what is going to happen. Does what you do honor God, and the body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted July 25, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2020 I pray it does, even if temporarily some might not see it as such. If you have found the truth that God will actually cause us to walk in full obedience, praise God, and you should rejoice that such a place is not only possible, but also shared for others who still struggle with sin wnd self control. If however, you have not found such a place, may I encourage you to seek God on the matter? He will not disappoint. blessings, Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted July 25, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,306 Content Per Day: 7.10 Reputation: 13,337 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2020 I never fail to be uplifted by the message you share, @Gideon. It's no small matter to walk in that which our Lord ordained before the foundation of the world --- God's will for us --- and so I pray that what I write might uplift those who choose to read. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus. Neither is there fear, doubt, double-mindedness, nor a shadow of turning. We can be assured that such things are the carnal fruit of this flesh we struggle against, fodder for the enemy of our souls to fashion into weapons at every turn. There's no denying the effectiveness of our resident weakness in casting about stones to stumble upon but here is where the wisdom of Almighty God makes fools of the wise and brings the mighty low: In weakness the power of Christ is perfected. The flesh is weak but remember the words of our Lord, assuring us that the spirit is willing! This is what we face in the present age. The flesh, vis a vis the carnal union of mind and body The fallen world which produced us, bereft of faith and unbelieving in every way, a consequence of the great falling away The dark powers and wicked principalities which rule over this world of flesh The evil one who was a liar and sinner from the beginning Our resident weakness which can be rightly understood as the cross we're called to bear The scattering of the Lord's flock which took place after He ascended to sit with our Father upon His throne Ah, but seeing as how God is for us who can possibly stand against us? He who is within us is greater than this flesh... Our Lord Jesus Christ has overcome this world of the falling away... The Lamb of God subjugated the wicked ones in high places, placing them underneath our feet... The evil one is desperate knowing that his appointed time is short... As our Lord overcame so shall we overcome... When our Lord returns as He ascended, He will gather us unto Him! Nothing is impossible in Jesus Christ. We who are in Christ move in two different realms --- this world of the perishing and that place which is referred to as "the heavenlies" in scripture --- just as the Word made flesh did when He walked this Earth long ago. We remember His promise to send the Comforter and so we're not alone by any means... the Lord is with us always! Cast aside the dross of condemnation and exchange it for the conviction of this faith which was delivered once and for all. The Lord is coming and those who cling to Him won't be caught unawares by His arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted July 25, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Marathoner said: I never fail to be uplifted by the message you share, @Gideon. It's no small matter to walk in that which our Lord ordained before the foundation of the world --- God's will for us --- and so I pray that what I write might uplift those who choose to read. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus. Neither is there fear, doubt, double-mindedness, nor a shadow of turning. We can be assured that such things are the carnal fruit of this flesh we struggle against, fodder for the enemy of our souls to fashion into weapons at every turn. There's no denying the effectiveness of our resident weakness in casting about stones to stumble upon but here is where the wisdom of Almighty God makes fools of the wise and brings the mighty low: In weakness the power of Christ is perfected. The flesh is weak but remember the words of our Lord, assuring us that the spirit is willing! This is what we face in the present age. The flesh, vis a vis the carnal union of mind and body The fallen world which produced us, bereft of faith and unbelieving in every way, a consequence of the great falling away The dark powers and wicked principalities which rule over this world of flesh The evil one who was a liar and sinner from the beginning Our resident weakness which can be rightly understood as the cross we're called to bear The scattering of the Lord's flock which took place after He ascended to sit with our Father upon His throne Ah, but seeing as how God is for us who can possibly stand against us? He who is within us is greater than this flesh... Our Lord Jesus Christ has overcome this world of the falling away... The Lamb of God subjugated the wicked ones in high places, placing them underneath our feet... The evil one is desperate knowing that his appointed time is short... As our Lord overcame so shall we overcome... When our Lord returns as He ascended, He will gather us unto Him! Nothing is impossible in Jesus Christ. We who are in Christ move in two different realms --- this world of the perishing and that place which is referred to as "the heavenlies" in scripture --- just as the Word made flesh did when He walked this Earth long ago. We remember His promise to send the Comforter and so we're not alone by any means... the Lord is with us always! Cast aside the dross of condemnation and exchange it for the conviction of this faith which was delivered once and for all. The Lord is coming and those who cling to Him won't be caught unawares by His arrival. I am so glad you are posting again my friend. I hope this finds you well. You are always a blessing to me. Gids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted July 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.48 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted July 25, 2020 5 hours ago, Gideon said: In these recent years, there has evolved an understanding of grace and what God asks of us that is quite different than what is seen in the Bible itself. Gideon--you need to be very careful here--you are treading on dangerous ground. So you are saying that you have some private revelation that upturns the teaching of Grace in the scriptures. Would you like to explain this? As I have said to you in the past, you take on a great deal of potential trouble when you speak in this way as though you have some authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted July 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alive said: Gideon--you need to be very careful here--you are treading on dangerous ground. So you are saying that you have some private revelation that upturns the teaching of Grace in the scriptures. Would you like to explain this? As I have said to you in the past, you take on a great deal of potential trouble when you speak in this way as though you have some authority. Brother, I have made it clear before and I will again. I am nothing. In my flesh, I suspect am worse than most here. Perhaps all. Fourteen years ago, bound by sins I could not conquer void of any perceptible fruits of the Spirit, having been a follower of the Lord for 38 years with little if anything to show for it, I cried out to God that His way was right, but that I had found it too high, too hard, impossible to walk in for any length of time, and after trying sll that I knew to walk worthy of the name of Jesus, I simply had nothing else I knew to walk in victory. There was but one thing I refused to let go. I refused to believe that grace somehow simply lowered the standard God had set for us. If God was the God who cannot lie, and He is, and He had promised grace would lift us up to walk in victory, then real overcoming victory MUST be true, and available to even the weakest among us and that included the wretch that I was. The Bible clearly tells us that real grace teaches us "that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we are to live soberly, righteously and justly in this present age." We are exhorted to keep our bodies under, to walk in holiness, without which no man will see the Lord. Yes, thank God He has made provision for us IF we slip, but He promised to cause us to walk obediently, and boy, did I desperately need that. I was caught in a net, a trap from which I was unable to escape. I simply could not lower the standard that tells us "Let all who name the name of the Lord depart from iniquity." Yet at the same time, I was unable to find the path to do so. I was of all men most miserable, the poster boy for Romans 7. One night fourteen years ago, the Lord had mercy on my sin-sick soul and He appeared to me.... visibly, and spoke to me, yes, audibly. He shared with me the truth I had missed, and had been blind to my entire Christian life. It is this message that activates the power of God towards us and allows us to walk whwre our hearts longs to walk, pleasing Him, all day, every day. You mention it is "upturning the message of grace in the scriptures". My response is that in truth, it magnifies grace to a level we did not know possible. The promises are all there, right in front of our noses. The fact we do not see them being fulfilled in our lives should give us pause but we have been fed a spiritual diet that somehow makes the promises of God of none effect, so we have walked on in our defeat, thinking this is the sole purpose of grace. We do the best we can, and grace makes up the difference, right? But brother, this is grace for new converts becoming established in the faith, not for those who have walked many years as His disciples. Grace.... real authentic Bible grace.... promises to change us, to free us, to cause us to will AND to do of His good pleasure. Brother, I fully understand when teaching seems to come out of left field, our defenses kick in. This is honorable, but the flock needs protection from wolves and the wiles of the enemy. However, this is also an important point needing to be examined, as the church as a whole is struggling with sin, carnality, worldliness, dissension, and is setting a poor example to the world as to how much the Lord can transform a man from sinner to saint. We have made Romans 7 the best God offers in this life, and multitudes are now found living at ease in Zion, with their old natures fully intact and unchanged. How few there are who are imprisoned by sin and the flesh and who possess the same hatred for their failings that Paul did. We are told that godliness with contentment is great gain. But sadly, for most of the church today, we have tried to become content while inwardly believing godliness and purity are unattainable. We try to find rest for our ouls but there isxalways a nagging uncomfortableness about our walk and failure is far more the experience of most rather than walking in victory as an overcomer, Should this not bother us? Is forgiveness the best grace can do? Does God need death to accomplish in us what His Spirit indwelling us cannot? Should it not be obvious to us that we are in dire need? I pray we do not let preconceived notions rob us of what the grace of God is offering us. God has told us that in the last days, His children will overcome by combining the blood of the Lamb with the words of their testimony. And what shall our testimony be? That we are just sinners saved by grace but not delivered from evil by it? Shall we not cry out to the Lord to enlarge our heats that we might believe what He has clearly promised us.... walking in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil? I promise this to any desperate enough to do so. God will hear your cry and grant you the faith to believe. Believe what? Believe .... that He can.... and will..... keep us from falling. that we are no longer in the flesh and that we owe it nothing. that it is no longer us that live and we... the old us, is actually dead and our life is hid with God in Christ. that our shields of faith WILL quench all the fiery arrows of the enemy. that He will not allow us to be tempted more than we can bear and that we WILL take the way of escape He always offers us. that He has delivered us from the power of darkness. that as the master potter, He WILL cause us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. that we can resist the devil steadfast in the faith and that he WILL flee from us. The church of the book of Acts was blessed to receive the early rain. Here at the end of the age, we are the blessed generation destined to receive the latter, and praise God, the latter will be greater than the former! Jesus is returning for a bride without spot or wrinkle, not for a body found divided into 500 sects and divisions, each one thanking God they possess the real truth, yet each still controlled to one degree or another by their fleshly nature. The truth is, if we are to see grace fully manifested in our lives, the truth must possess us, not visa versa. How is that possible? We need to put off our old nature, laying no more claim that that is us. It WAS us. Who are we? New creatures. Victorious overcomers. And when we finally see our need for such a testimony, when our hearts hunger after pleasing God more than our daily bread or yielding to our secret sins, when we finally come to see our old nature is the root of our failures and lay the axe to the root of the tree, putting off the old rebel usurper by an act of audacious faith, the bad fruit finally stops growing, and is miraculously replaced by fruits of the Spirit instead. To those who do so, not caring for the cost to their reputation, determined to walk in obedience despite their weakness, looking unto God to do the changing, they will see their God roll up His sleeves and show us what real grace is capable of doing in a man's life, if only he simply believes..... and asks. That, dear brother is real grace. blessings, dear Alive Gideon Edited July 26, 2020 by Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlade Posted July 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,234 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,136 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1961 Share Posted July 26, 2020 To depend on Christ.. Phil I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.. amen. Friends.. the 12 had walked with Jesus what 3 years now and He says "No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you." You know myself I've never read that at as if He was calling me His friend. Today I see it getting toss at those that they know nothing about. So hello condemnation and guilt. Well "if you don't obey Jesus you don't love Him". Two things here... again myself I never LOVED Jesus when He found me. That took many years and for others can talk a life time. How can you love someone you don't know? I like for the most part what you share but I disagree with some of your personally beliefs. I can say WE all do this from time to time that.. duh I am speaking the truth YOUR wrong amen? I miss Chuck Missler. What I miss what I do not hear much of is "don't believe me, don't take my word for it.. you seek this out for your self you find it". Now that it wise. And authority.. speaks volumes. God..if of from God.. He will always have told you first so it witnesses to you.. I believe Thanks again for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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