Buddy D. Mouse Posted August 9, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 108 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2020 Yes, he does, Leah, believe me, that is what I am trying to show by 8 uses of this word in the bible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy D. Mouse Posted August 9, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 108 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2020 John 21:6 says that the disciples, after casting nets where Jesus told them - were not able to DRAW the net cuz of so many fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy D. Mouse Posted August 9, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 108 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) John 21:11 has Peter drawing a net... Okay, Acts 16:19 - here we have Paul and Silas, after excorcising the fortune-telling girl, her master's mad cuz they would lose money, caught Paul and Silas and HELKO ed them into the marketplace Edited August 9, 2020 by Buddy D. Mouse Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy D. Mouse Posted August 9, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 108 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2020 Acts 21:30 People HELKO ed Paul again, drew him out of the Temple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy D. Mouse Posted August 9, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 108 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) James 2:6 Rich men HELKO you before the judgement seats. That's 8 uses of Helko in the Bible. Context in each case can be used to see if it's Peter drawing a sword, a net, or Jesus drawing all men to Himself after how he is lifted up, or the Father drawing men to Jesus. Free Will is not violated by God, Paul's opponents may have used force on him, not God. So PHOOEY to making HELKO mean dragged against one's Will in the "unless my Father draw him" verse. That's "draw by inward power, lead, impel" Edited August 9, 2020 by Buddy D. Mouse Typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted August 9, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 79 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,177 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 826 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/04/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Alive said: I get that---many teach the reality of understanding that we died and Christ lives in us and that we can 'reckon' that so. I learned those things and began that walk in my first year in the Lord--over 45 years ago. This is good teaching, but that is not what folks grouse at. It is your assumption that the 'Church'--'We' don't walk in that same light to whatever degree our Lord Graces each with. These truths are as old as Paul whom the Lord used to unveil them for the Body. Do you know how to tell if we are walking in the light of that truth? When temptation comes, do we give in? Or, do we grit our teeth and determine not to yield, which often sadly ends up in yielding anyway. Or... we stand fast in the truth of who we are..... new creatures..... and that God WILL cause us to take the way of escape He assures us He will provide us, knowing that we will be brought out on the other side victorious without yielding to the sin that so easily besets us. It is one thing to agree it is good doctrine, and to know others too have seen this. And no, it is not new. But, understanding we are new is far, far, from reckoning it so. Reckoning it so becomes our shield of faith that quenches ALL the fiery arrows of the enemy. It works. God is not a man that He might lie. If we do not find ourselves overcoming when tempted, the hard truth is we are not believing and still end up trying in our own strength to resist the temptation. I have, in my life, done it both ways. For thirty eight years prior to my visitation, even in the times when I did manage to resist (which were few), it was by my own grit snd determination, with no guarantee nor peace that the next time would bear the same results. But when a man truly comes to the point he hates his old nature and the failure and self-condemnation that follows it, and cries out in desperation for the faith to believe he truly has been made new, God responds and the walk of true victory becomes his possession. God has asked me to share until people see their need and cry out to actually believe with their whole heart rather than be content to understand with their heads.. It is not a pleasant task at times. People do not like to be told that they are missing something. I so get that, I do. But we are entering into dark times, the likes of which we cannot yet imagine. God is even now beginning to restore us to book of Acts strength, insuring that we can weather the coming storm and then come home to Him triumphant, with our heads held high. . I pray with all my heart that readers look past my errors in presentation and simply believe the words of their God, that He can and He will cause us to walk in full obedience to Him as living sacrifices.... what He terms our "reasonable service". In our strength, it is impossible. But when we allow Him to be the potter, and take His promises as rock-hard truths, we see Him rolling up His sleeves and delivering us from evil, just as He promised He would do. I can only testify that for fourteen years He has fulfilled everything He has promised to me as I have reached out in my never-ending weakness to grab hold of Him and His strength by an act of audacious underserved faith. In myself, I am worse than all here. What is my solution? What is yours? To escape self by putting it to death... by faith! When Paul declare that he was crucified with Christ and that it was no longer he that lived, but Christ now lived in Him, this was not a place he arrived at by his diligence, nor by his calling as an apostle. It was the declaration of reckoning that God seeks from each one of our mouths, and as we step out to believe it, despite our weaknesses, He firms the roiling waters under our feet as we walk to Him in palpable victory. We ARE new creatures, right now, this very minute. Satan has no hold on us any longer, and thus is left trying to get us to continue to believe his lies, that somehow we are too weak to walk uprightly towards our God, all day, every day, and that God's hand is shortened so that He cannot save us to the uttermost. Satan reminds us of our weakness, and our undeservedness. But listen! knowing our weakness and the impossibility of walking with sin under our feet is, in truth a great advantage, for we full well know that we need a miracle, and our God has one with each of our names on it. May we be reminded that it is when we have NO strength and KNOW it, that we are ready to cast all our hope of walking in victory as overcomers on His broad shoulders to keep us, to transform us and to cause us to bear fruits... MUCH fruits! He will NOT disappoint. Glory! Humbly, Gids Edited August 9, 2020 by Gideon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy D. Mouse Posted August 9, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 108 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2020 Anyway, such is the EXAMINATION angle - word studies which try to do exegesis-good vs eisogesis-bad. I am intrigued by the phrase "dirty-church" view, which was mentioned a few pages earlier. What is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted August 9, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Episcopius said: The ASKERS of Jesus asked what THEY should do, the answer is that they should believe. Of course no one can come to Jesus unless drawn by the Father, I don't see that as being dragged against their will, there is nothing to BOAST about in believing; there is a whole concept of Prevenient Grace enabling a person - a fallen, Adam-natured person, to accept Christ... Arminian "prevenient grace" is just that - a concept. It is unbiblical, since the Bible NEVER says that the unregenerate man is enabled to accept Christ; in fact, it says just the opposite. Rom. 8:7-9 (VW) 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the Law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh are not able to please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. There are only TWO conditions of man (not counting before the Fall): 1) In the flesh (i.e. unregenerate) and unable to please God. 2) Born again (regenerate) with the Spirit of God indwelling. There is no fictional third option of in the flesh but enabled to please God (e.g. by accepting Christ). This is why Jesus told Nicodemus that you (plural) MUST be born again, in order to perceive and enter the kingdom of God. The Arminian teaching would have Jesus tell Nicodemus that all he needs is "prevenient grace", then he will be enabled (but not caused) to perceive and enter the kingdom of God. As far as being drawn is concerned, you can only be said to have been drawn, if you actually come (this drawing is not against your will but with your will). You can only say that you drew a crowd, if a crowd came to hear you. John 6:43-45 (VW) 43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, And they shall all be taught by God. Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. The Father draws you, you come to Jesus and you will be raised up at the last day. Everyone who is drawn comes (by definition) and he (the one the Father drew) is raised up at the last day. There is not one who is drawn to Jesus who is not raised up at the last day, according to the word of God, in other words, the drawing is effectual. Verse 45 shows how God effectually draws you - he causes you to hear and learn from God. Edited August 9, 2020 by David1701 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted August 9, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2020 8 hours ago, Episcopius said: James 2:6 Rich men HELKO you before the judgement seats. That's 8 uses of Helko in the Bible. Context in each case can be used to see if it's Peter drawing a sword, a net, or Jesus drawing all men to Himself after how he is lifted up, or the Father drawing men to Jesus. Free Will is not violated by God, Paul's opponents may have used force on him, not God. So PHOOEY to making HELKO mean dragged against one's Will in the "unless my Father draw him" verse. That's "draw by inward power, lead, impel" What kind of "free will" do you mean, Libertarian Free Will or Compatibilistic Free Will? I don't recall ever seeing someone claim that God effectually draws people to Jesus AGAINST their will! God effectually draws us by giving us a new will, not by overpowering the old, hostile one. Ez. 36:26,27 (VW) 26 I will also give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall keep My judgments and do them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted August 9, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2020 On 8/1/2020 at 10:31 AM, Gideon said: The whole topic of Calvinism vs. Armenianism is, I believe, ultimately a smokescreen from the enemy. We are, by the authority of God's Word, to give all diligence to make our calling and election sure. We must beware grabbing hold of a doctrine to convince us of our salvation. Our assurance is meant to come from God Himself. Is that not wonderful? Our calling is not a call to get our doctrine right on who is saved and who is not. The point of this is ultimately a call to each individual believer to make sure THEY are saved, by God's hand unmistakenly seen in their lives, as He assures us Himself that we are His sons or daughters. "Therefore brethren, give diligence all the more to make your calling and election sure, for if ye do these things ye shall never fall. 2 Peter 1:10 So the Bible tells us that giving all diligence is certainly a key piece of our being assured of our salvation. It is a clear exhortation to not assure ourselves that we are Heaven-bound simply because we "feel" saved, or because we said the prayer of faith one day a long time ago. To each one of us, we have a God-given responsibility to examine ourselves whether we truly "be in the faith", which is expressed by what God is doing in our lives, both in our relationship with Him as well as our relationship with this world and those who live in it. How important it is, especially in these uncertain times, to understand what God has spoken. A good tree WILL produce good fruit. This is not a call to try harder to "be good" or to try our best to bear more fruit. We cannot do either. To see this done, we must learn the how of abiding in Him, for He is the potter, not us. He alone can cause the transformation inside us. He is the husbandman, and our dependance must be on Him to sanctify us, and to make us His own. Does this mean we can never be sure as to our eternal salvation? Not at all. There is total security to the believer, but belief was never meant to be a one time thing. It was meant to be a living lifeline to God through our abiding in Jesus. Our faith is meant to grow as we grow up into Him in all things. So what must we do to be saved? We must believe ON Him, which is a moment-by-moment Christ-in-us relationship. Believing IN Him is going to cause many to assume they are safe when in fact they may not be at all. So what do we do, if, after an honest examination of our lives and our relationship with the Lord, we do not see the mark of Jesus on our thoughts, our deeds, and what we have declared by our actions to be our treasure? First, may I assure those who truly do so, the fact that you did so is a great indicator of your heart wanting the right relationship with God and He will move mountains to see you find your way. Then what? Ask. Ask Him to lead you into all truth. Ask Him to show you HOW to walk where you are transformed, bearing fruits that testify to your calling and election. He will not disappoint. blessings, Gids Coming in late to this thread, but want to say that I agree. Much more profitable than siding with and arguing points of view of mere men who will always be mistaken or fall short in some areas, is to proceed directly to the plumbline of God's word, read it, "hear" it, and accept it. The reason why God gave us the scriptures is for our admonition and nurture, that we would grow. And growing in the Lord is NECESSARY because as babes and young children we are apt to be blown by every wind of doctrine and stand in danger of falling away from sound doctrine, to our peril. Why Jesus gave us the parable of the ten virgins. And why we are to learn from the example of the "church in the wilderness" who mostly didn't have faith to carry them into the Promised Land. We are not to just sit on our laurels after coming to faith in Christ, and camp out at the Red Sea, but we NEED to keep growing....Jesus is not just the author but the finisher of our faith as well. This is also why in Hebrews 6 Paul admonished those who "by now ought to be teachers", because they were still in need of milk and hence vulnerable to being led astray and falling away. Allegorically, it's why "Rachel was weeping for her CHILDREN and refusing to be comforted because they are no more." At the close of this age with the falling away that was prophesied to happen, this is occurring again spiritually. Scriptures admonish, exhort and provoke us on purpose to keep growing and keep seeking Him for what we yet lack. The Lord doesn't want us getting too comfortable for too long, for our spiritual good. He is coming for a Bride and that is a picture of her being grown up and matured, ready and prepared for the "marriage". The Peril of Not Progressing Heb 6:1-6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will[fn] do if God permits. FOR it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away,[fn] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. (I left the man-made title of this passage in on purpose, The Peril of Not Progressing, because it happens to be exactly correct.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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