Love God Or Burn In Hell

[Pipit]

This question falls under the catagory of "questions I have had for along time but am to scared to openly ask". OK here it is....The Bible teaches us to love God. It teaches that you had darn well better love him are you are going to sizzle in an undescribable furnace for ever and ever. Day and night.Screaming , crying, teeth grinding, cronic pain unlike anything we experience hear on earth, hunger, thirst, darkness, lonelyness ect. ect...Hypothetical. Remove hell. Lets say hell does not exist and if you die without Christ you still go to a place of rest. Perhaps not heaven but not hell. So there is no Hell. Do you think as many people would come to Christ or live in obedience? I think not. God wants us to love him with all we have. How can it ever really be real love if he holds hell over our heads. I have three sons. I certainly want them to love me but not because I threaten them. That would not be love. It would be me manipulating them with fear to act a certain way and I am not even saying that thats a bad thing but still, love? No thats not love. I want them to love me because of who I am and because they choose to and have a desire to. How could I ever be sure if I threaten them with punishment if they dont. Likewise with God. I believe in hell but I sometimes think that it taints the whole love thing. Any takers???????

Dan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dgolvach,

Remember that God, whose personal name is Jehovah is omniscienct. God, who is the great nomothete, law giver, does not make laws just for the making. God only makes laws for mankind to help them to go in the right direction, Jere 10:23 says that man, who is walking, does not know how to direct his step. Deut 10:13 says the law was for their own good. Isa 48:17,18 shows that the laws God gives are for our own good, not for the good of God. 1John 5:3 mentions that God's laws are not burdensome.

The Bible, not only says that God is loving, but it actually says that GOD IS LOVE, 1John 4:8,16. So then would a God that IS love torture a person for eternity, for the sins that he committed in the short life span of a human?? Could a God really call Himself LOVE, if He did that?? Could the people that live forever, and the angels really be happy if they knew that their relatives were in inless torment??

The answer is: The term used by todays religious teachers as HELL, is a corruption of the Greek word HADES. The Greek word HADES means the same as the Hebrew word SHEOL. This is proven by a comparison between two scriptures, Ps 16:10 and Acts 2:27,31. The words that are translated HADES, HELL, or SHEOL, mean the place of the dead, the common grave of mankind. In the original languages there was no meaning of torment, suffering, or anything else. When a person dies he, is as in a deep sleep, or rest, John 11:11-14.

If you have one of the most used translations you will see that Jesus himself was in the same place,when he was killed, HELL, HADES, Acts 2:27. Jesus was God's son, he was perfect, he never committed a single sin, but he went to HADES, just like every other person who dies. If you look a Jonah 2:2 you will see that Jonah was in HELL, HADES, when in the belly of the large fish. Just to make sure you understand, turn to Job 14:13-15, Here Job is asking God to go into HELL, SHEOL, so he can get out of the torment of the boils all over his body. Job would surely not have wanted to go to a burning place, which would have been even worse than his condition then. Job wanted to go to his grave to rest until God's anger was past.

There are many other very important scriptures that are definitive about the condition of people who have died. Turn first to Gen 3:19. This scripture says that Adam was going to return to the dust, for sinning against God. Does dust know anything, can it fee. Remember this was a condemnation because of his sin. He would go back to the dust, NOT be rewarded by going to heaven to be with God. Then go to Ecc 3:18-20. These scriptures show that man is just like the beasts when it comes to dying. Man and animals all have the same spirit, they all go back to the ground when they die. For man to think that he is better than animals is man's VANITY, that is what he wants to think. Then go to Ecc 9:5,6,10, Here we are told that there is no thought or knowledge or work in the grave, SHEOL the place all are going. Also Ps 146:4 says that when a man dies, his spirit goes out, and in that day his THOUGHTS DO PERISH.

Another very important concept to consider: Notice Rom 6:23 Here the scriptures tell us that the WAGES sin pays is DEATH. So if you sin, you die for the sins. You have paid the ultimate price for your sins. Therefore there is no basis for torment, you, when you die have paid for your sins. At death you are acquitted from your sins, Rom 6:7. At that time you and God owe nothing to each other, but because of Jesus' ransom sacrifice for our sins we have a chance to be resurrected. Jesus said, and it is recorded at John 5:28,29 that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous, also Acts 24:15. Because a dead person knows NOTHING, he cannot be either REWARDED or PUNISHED. A person who has died sleeps in the grave until he hears God's voice or Jesus' calling him back. To a person who is asleep, there is no knowledge of time passing, so a person will feel as if he had just died when he will be called back in the resurrection.

The question is: Will you listen to what the Bible actually SAYS, or will you believe what someone SAYS it SAYS???

There has never been a way for imperfect man to get to heaven. The only way a person could die was to disobey God. If a person disobeyed God why would He then reward him for his sin by taking him to heaven??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think someone needs to read Revelation 20:11-15, and also the parables in Matthrew 25 (expecially the Sheep and the Goats). Yes, when someone dies they go to the grave, but after death, there is the judgement (may it be right away or may it be when they get called up at the ressurection), and the two desintations after that are Heaven or Hell-- no inbetweens.

[apothanein kerdos]

Looks like a Jehovah Witness.

Anyway, hell, for those that have rejected God, is merely their wish come true. On earth they lived without loving God, denying His existence either by actions or words (sometimes both). They told God no that they didn't want a relationship with Him. God is merely allowing them to fulfill their wishes in eternity. The catch? There is a full realization of what this seperation means. We are made in the image of God and while on earth, even if we deny Him, we still feel Him. In hell, however, we are seperated from God (because it is what we wanted). This is why we see torment and gnashing of teeth, it is all hyperbole and metaphorical for the actual pain felt. Now I am denying that hell is some firery place of torment, but I am not denying the reality of hell. Hell is a very real place of isolation from other people and from God...the two essentials to having a sane life.

Hell is real, and the actual torment is brought on by ourselves.

[dgolvach]

Anyway, hell, for those that have rejected God, is merely their wish come true. On earth they lived without loving God, denying His existence either by actions or words (sometimes both). They told God no that they didn't want a relationship with Him. God is merely allowing them to fulfill their wishes in eternity. The catch? There is a full realization of what this seperation means. We are made in the image of God and while on earth, even if we deny Him, we still feel Him. In hell, however, we are seperated from God (because it is what we wanted). This is why we see torment and gnashing of teeth, it is all hyperbole and metaphorical for the actual pain felt. Now I am denying that hell is some firery place of torment, but I am not denying the reality of hell. Hell is a very real place of isolation from other people and from God...the two essentials to having a sane life.

Hell is real, and the actual torment is brought on by ourselve

Sorta a be careful for what you wish for thing. I can see that. I wonder if you get all of your fleshly desires at first and you tread on them over and over only to become more empty as you tread? Then the loss of hope and lonelyness kicks in. That would be horrible. I saw a Twilight Zone episode like this. The guy(gangster) died and thought he was in heaven because he was getting everything he wanted but soon after he got very board. He started saying "I'm sick of this....I want to go to the other place". Then the Devil (Actor Victor French) pops up and says..."Sir...you are in the other place...Ha Ha Ha!!!". It gave me the woolies.

Oh well... Hell does scare me and sometimes I wonder if I seek God only to save myself from this place. Perhaps God dosen't mind that as a reason as long as you seek him. Scary stuff.

Dan

[Pipit]

This question falls under the catagory of "questions I have had for along time but am to scared to openly ask". OK here it is....The Bible teaches us to love God. It teaches that you had darn well better love him are you are going to sizzle in an undescribable furnace for ever and ever. Day and night.Screaming , crying, teeth grinding, cronic pain unlike anything we experience hear on earth, hunger, thirst, darkness, lonelyness ect. ect...Hypothetical. Remove hell. Lets say hell does not exist and if you die without Christ you still go to a place of rest. Perhaps not heaven but not hell. So there is no Hell. Do you think as many people would come to Christ or live in obedience? I think not. God wants us to love him with all we have. How can it ever really be real love if he holds hell over our heads. I have three sons. I certainly want them to love me but not because I threaten them. That would not be love. It would be me manipulating them with fear to act a certain way and I am not even saying that thats a bad thing but still, love? No thats not love. I want them to love me because of who I am and because they choose to and have a desire to. How could I ever be sure if I threaten them with punishment if they dont. Likewise with God. I believe in hell but I sometimes think that it taints the whole love thing. Any takers???????

Dan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is actually a great question. That aspect of 'God is love' yet 'God made hell.' The essense of the question is: "If God is good and loving as the Bible says He is, why would a good and loving God create a hell to send people to just because they don't love Him back?"

I am certain it is a question we all hear alot when it comes to witnessing to people. And the reason for it is because we seem bent on sharing a 'Jesus loves you and has a wonderful life for you' gospel message that sadly leaves out the aspects of sin and God's justice. Most people, in fact, think that God is good, and because God is good they won't go to hell, and they think that if they do go to hell, it means God is not good, even if they haven't obeyed Him (they think they are good people, because they have never been shown what sin is, and how much it displeases God).

Consider this: You are in a court room, guilty as all out for some hidious crime, and the judge passes the death sentence. Do you think going up to the judge and saying 'Judge, I believe you are a good judge, and because you are a good judge you'd let me off the hook?' No. The judge would look at you and say 'You are right, I am a good judge, and because I am good, I must bring justice.' If the judge let you off the hook, he is not a good judge, nor is he just.

We stand guilty of sin, we have broken God's law (hey, take yourself through the Ten Commandments, be honest and see if you have kept even one of them! And when going though them, remember what Jesus said about lust being like adultry and hate being as murder!). See, none of us have kept God's law, we are all guilty, and God must bring justice upon us for our breaking of His commandments (God's law is to show us that we are sinners--Paul spoke of the law revealing what sin was.. read Romans 3 to 7, it reveals alot about the purpose of the Law). The punishment for breaking the law is Hell--not just seperation from God, but the place of God's wrath against sin. If He doesn't bring justice, He is not a good God, or a just God.

Yet, even though we are sinners and our sins demand justice, and God must bring justice upon us, He gave His Son Jesus to bear the justice of God for us. God, in His love for us, provided Grace for us through Jesus. The judgement of sin has been satisfied.

But does that mean everyone gets a free ticket to Heaven?

Not at all! John 3:16-18 clearly reveals that though God loves the world so much that He sent His Son to die for it and to redeem it, we have the option to believe and trust in Christ Jesus for what he has done or to disbelieve it. It is ours to accept and acknowledge we are sinners, guilty of breaking God's laws, deserving punishment, and to believe that God has satisfied the justice we deserve through Christ who died for us. This is the action of acknowledging and repenting (which means to turn away from and do it no more) of our sins, and the act of believing in Jesus Christ.

Note that it is not just a matter of 'loving God' to avoid hell, but also one of repenting and turning away from sin, and trusting God. Also remember that to love God is to obey Him...

Also note that God doesn't hold Hell over our Heads, but that He holds grace though Christ. Hell is under our own feet. Sadly, the world, as it doesn't want to be accountable for itself, tried to turn it around....

[Catsmeow]

I saw a Twilight Zone episode like this. The guy(gangster) died and thought he was in heaven because he was getting everything he wanted but soon after he got very board. He started saying "I'm sick of this....I want to go to the other place". Then the Devil (Actor Victor French) pops up and says..."Sir...you are in the other place...Ha Ha Ha!!!".

[Keith]

Dan,

All sin is ultimately against God, even the sins we commit against each other. God is eternal and infinite, so, all sin is worthy of an eternal punishment. God loves us and desires that everyone be saved, but He is also just. Sin can't go unpunished, which is why God sent Jesus to die on the cross as penalty for our sins. His death was a permanent sacrifice. It paid for our sins permanently so we wouldn't have to pay for them in hell ourselves.

God loves us so much that He provided the way for us to be saved, forgiven and sanctified. We just have to put our faith in Him and accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour to receive it. Those who reject this gift have not received the free gift of salvation and will have to face the eternal consequences of their decision. Given that everyone has the opportunity to accept or reject Christ, this punishment is just. God is righteous.

[amazingrace]

Love is a voluntary act of the will. A person chooses either to love God or not to love God. The Bible says that those who do not love God are at enmity with Him. Now, lets apply this to eternity: If a person spends his entire earthly life distancing himself from his enemy (God), wouldnt having to spend eternity with Him be, in itself, a kind of HELL? Why do people complain about being disqualified from entering into the eternal presence of the God they wanted nothing to do with for all their mortal lives?

[Keith]

I think perhaps a different approach to this question would be helpful. The point isn't "Love God or go to hell." It's quite the opposite.

Since every person is born with a sinful nature and is destined to Hell -- wouldn't God providing a way of escape show mercy?

It's been said several times in this thread that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Being God, He can't allow sin to go unpunished. So, in His mercy, He sent His Son to die on the cross. He gave so much and asks for so little in return.

To me, that sounds like the epitome of love, rather than a tyrant who shakes his fist shouting, "Love me or go to hell! Bwaa haa haa!"

[yomotalking]

Yomo: {{{{{hugs}}}}}   You're a sweetie...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*grins and squashes Cats with another ((((((HUG))))))))*

[EricH]

Actually there is no threat of "love me or burn in the bible". We are all under a sentence of eternal punishment the minute we are born due to inherited sin and the sins we actually commit. We are separated from God and incapable of loving Him due to blindness and hardness of heart.

God offers a solution to this in that He took the form of a man and paid the dept of sin that we owe. The only condition in the bible is that we respond to this gift in faith.

Once we have done that, the viel on our hearts is lifted, and we are then able to love God, because the hardness of heart has been removed.

So loving God is not a condition to being saved from hell. It is a byproduct of us responding in obedience to His solution to our sin problem. Namely faith in the only solution that can save us, Jesus Christ