Protecting a prostitute

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 You confusing God's wrath with the wrath of christians. 

I noticed you still havnt answered the question but do dance around it. 

Now you've said those Christians are doing God's will be killing and torturing people. But you refuse to answer if you've killed or totured anyone. 

Im guessing your not doing God will. 

You still haven't shown any verse that says they are killing and torturing people. Can you show where they are doing this? Just one verse would suffice. 

In cause you have not noticed it, it is still the age of Grace, we are NOT IN judgment.  Today God is standing with arms open wide, inviting all to come. His plan for today is that we bring in the lost. The day will come when this door will close. The age of Grace will end. God's plan THEN is to destroy the world and the sinners in the world.  If you don't like His plan, take it up with HIM!

[Shilohsfoal]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You still haven't shown any verse that says they are killing and torturing people. Can you show where they are doing this? Just one verse would suffice. 

In cause you have not noticed it, it is still the age of Grace, we are NOT IN judgment.  Today God is standing with arms open wide, inviting all to come. His plan for today is that we bring in the lost. The day will come when this door will close. The age of Grace will end. God's plan THEN is to destroy the world and the sinners in the world.  If you don't like His plan, take it up with HIM!

If you had not noticed, while these Christians are tormenting people, we will still be in the age of grace. The people these gentile Christians are killing can still repent and be saved if they didn't kill them. 

https://biblehub.com/revelation/11-10.htm

Christ doesn't come and raise the dead till after the beast has killed those christians. 

https://biblehub.com/revelation/11-5.htm

It's as Daniel shows. They rule over many from Jerusalem till the king of the south (the beast) attacks them. Then comes the end. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-39.htm

 

The beast, the false prophet, and the prostitute all together. 

Jerusalem. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

If you had not noticed, while these Christians are tormenting people, we will still be in the age of grace. The people these gentile Christians are killing can still repent and be saved if they didn't kill them. 

https://biblehub.com/revelation/11-10.htm

Christ doesn't come and raise the dead till after the beast has killed those christians. 

https://biblehub.com/revelation/11-5.htm

It's as Daniel shows. They rule over many from Jerusalem till the king of the south (the beast) attacks them. Then comes the end. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-39.htm

 

The beast, the false prophet, and the prostitute all together. 

Jerusalem. 

What you are missing:

The rapture will come just before wrath: Paul TELLS Us this. Wrath is at the 6th seal. The two witnesses show up around 3 1/2 years later. and most of their testimony is in the last half of the 70th week (marked by the 7th seal to the 7th vial).  Therefore, the church is GONE before these two MEN show up: probably Enoch and Elijah -the two men that never died. 

Just so you know, these two men have been in HEAVEN for centuries, yes, even millennia. They belong to God and will be doing God's work on earth. (Your opinion of them is wrong.) They are risen back to heaven where they came from. 

The verse in Daniel is about the Beast of Rev. 13 and the very beast that hates these two witnesses, because they tell the TRUTH about Him. It will be the spirit (probably the devil himself) from the bottomless pit that kills them - but he will probably use the Rev. 13 Beast to do it. Yes, the Beast and False Prophet work together, on the devil's side, and these two witnesses OPPOSE them from God's side. You really have the wrong opinion about them. They are called back to HEAVEN. You need to rethink this. They are doing GOD'S work. 

[Shilohsfoal]

43 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

What you are missing:

The rapture will come just before wrath: Paul TELLS Us this. Wrath is at the 6th seal. The two witnesses show up around 3 1/2 years later. and most of their testimony is in the last half of the 70th week (marked by the 7th seal to the 7th vial).  Therefore, the church is GONE before these two MEN show up: probably Enoch and Elijah -the two men that never died. 

Just so you know, these two men have been in HEAVEN for centuries, yes, even millennia. They belong to God and will be doing God's work on earth. (Your opinion of them is wrong.) They are risen back to heaven where they came from. 

The verse in Daniel is about the Beast of Rev. 13 and the very beast that hates these two witnesses, because they tell the TRUTH about Him. It will be the spirit (probably the devil himself) from the bottomless pit that kills them - but he will probably use the Rev. 13 Beast to do it. Yes, the Beast and False Prophet work together, on the devil's side, and these two witnesses OPPOSE them from God's side. You really have the wrong opinion about them. They are called back to HEAVEN. You need to rethink this. They are doing GOD'S work. 

I didn't say anything about a pre or post wrath rapture. 

There is a difference between tribulation and wrath. Christ as well as the apostles suffered tribulation. They did not suffer God's wrath. 

Im talking about tribulation which the church suffers through. Many Christians are killed during th e tribulation who do not worship the beast or recieves its mark. 

The wrath of God comes upon those who persecute those saints. 

As it is written, I will recompense. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I didn't say anything about a pre or post wrath rapture. 

There is a difference between tribulation and wrath. Christ as well as the apostles suffered tribulation. They did not suffer God's wrath. 

Im talking about tribulation which the church suffers through. Many Christians are killed during th e tribulation who do not worship the beast or recieves its mark. 

The wrath of God comes upon those who persecute those saints. 

As it is written, I will recompense. 

I really don't think you know what you are talking about - although you may THINK you know. 

There is a difference between tribulation and wrath.  Yes, of course there is: if you are talking about God's wrath. But when Satan is cast down, he then comes with HIS wrath, which will cause GREAT tribulation.  So you are right if you are talking about God's wrath, but wrong if you are talking about Satan's wrath.

Christ as well as the apostles suffered tribulation.   The church has always suffered tribulation and always will, until the end of the church age. John wrote, in Rev. 1, "I, John, in THE tribulation."  (The "THE" is there in all the Greek Texts: but the KJV and some other translations chose to leave it out. 
 

Then when John saw the raptured church in heaven, in Rev. 7, as the great crowd, too large to number: he was told, these are those who are "coming out of great tribulation."  (The Greek has it in present tense.) In other words, this speaking was not talking about how this huge crowd suddenly got from earth to heaven; rather, he was telling how each one left the tribulations of life on earth by being born again one at a time, and being transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. That is how each one of these of the great crowd too large to number got into that crowd: they got born again. So here God is calling life on earth as a sinner as "great tribulation." It is speaking of people living in the kingdom of darkness. 

So life on earth can range from tribulation to great tribulation. 

However, humans place titles on things, and people have called the 70th week as "the tribulation." It is very difficult to separate this 7 year period as part wrath and part tribulation. The 70th week is ALL God's wrath. But only the last half will be Satan's wrath.

Get this straight, once and for always: the Day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath or just the WRATH of God begins at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal starts the 70th week. So God's wrath begins just before the 70th week so the ENTIRE WEEK is God's wrath.

Im talking about tribulation which the church suffers through. Many Christians are killed during th e tribulation who do not worship the beast or receives its mark.  These will be those LEFT BEHIND when the church is taken. If you notice, in chapter 12, midpoint of the week, John talks about only a "remnant" of those that love Jesus - that is because the MAIN LOAD went out with the pretrib rapture; only a remnant left. 

The wrath of God comes upon those who persecute those saints.   Finally, something I can agree with. But sadly, His wrath is universal: EVERYONE ON EARTH will be in His wrath. That is why God wants everyone to be ready for His pretrib coming and rapture: God does not WANT His kids left behind to suffer His wrath. Sadly many will. The truth is, God in His great mercy will save those who refuse the mark and lose their head. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by iamlamad

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

I really don't think you know what you are talking about - although you may THINK you know. 

There is a difference between tribulation and wrath.  Yes, of course there is: if you are talking about God's wrath. But when Satan is cast down, he then comes with HIS wrath, which will cause GREAT tribulation.  So you are right if you are talking about God's wrath, but wrong if you are talking about Satan's wrath.

Christ as well as the apostles suffered tribulation.   The church has always suffered tribulation and always will, until the end of the church age. John wrote, in Rev. 1, "I, John, in THE tribulation."  (The "THE" is there in all the Greek Texts: but the KJV and some other translations chose to leave it out. 
 

Then when John saw the raptured church in heaven, in Rev. 7, as the great crowd, too large to number: he was told, these are those who are "coming out of great tribulation."  (The Greek has it in present tense.) In other words, this speaking was not talking about how this huge crowd suddenly got from earth to heaven; rather, he was telling how each one left the tribulations of life on earth by being born again one at a time, and being transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. That is how each one of these of the great crowd too large to number got into that crowd: they got born again. So here God is calling life on earth as a sinner as "great tribulation." It is speaking of people living in the kingdom of darkness. 

So life on earth can range from tribulation to great tribulation. 

However, humans place titles on things, and people have called the 70th week as "the tribulation." It is very difficult to separate this 7 year period as part wrath and part tribulation. The 70th week is ALL God's wrath. But only the last half will be Satan's wrath.

Get this straight, once and for always: the Day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath or just the WRATH of God begins at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal starts the 70th week. So God's wrath begins just before the 70th week so the ENTIRE WEEK is God's wrath.

Im talking about tribulation which the church suffers through. Many Christians are killed during th e tribulation who do not worship the beast or receives its mark.  These will be those LEFT BEHIND when the church is taken. If you notice, in chapter 12, midpoint of the week, John talks about only a "remnant" of those that love Jesus - that is because the MAIN LOAD went out with the pretrib rapture; only a remnant left. 

The wrath of God comes upon those who persecute those saints.   Finally, something I can agree with. But sadly, His wrath is universal: EVERYONE ON EARTH will be in His wrath. That is why God wants everyone to be ready for His pretrib coming and rapture: God does not WANT His kids left behind to suffer His wrath. Sadly many will. The truth is, God in His great mercy will save those who refuse the mark and lose their head. 

Great tribulation isn't being born again. I myself recieved the holy spirit and know it wasn't great tribulation I was in. 

Great tribulation takes place when the armed forces place the abomination of desolation. It will be a time of great tribulation, unlike there has ever been or ever shall be agsin.A time when heavenly objects fall to the earth like falling stars. The sky departing from the earth like a scroll being rolled together and a great earthquake. 

That is great tribulation. It is after that, that John sees the great multitude which come out of great tribulation. 

Before this there is tribulation suffered by the saints in Israel for the space of 42 months.The Israeli goverment causes that persecution. 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[iamlamad]

25 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Great tribulation isn't being born again. I myself recieved the holy spirit and know it wasn't great tribulation I was in. 

Great tribulation takes place when the armed forces place the abomination of desolation. It will be a time of great tribulation, unlike there has ever been or ever shall be agsin.A time when heavenly objects fall to the earth like falling stars. The sky departing from the earth like a scroll being rolled together and a great earthquake. 

That is great tribulation. It is after that, that John sees the great multitude which come out of great tribulation. 

Before this there is tribulation suffered by the saints in Israel for the space of 42 months.The Israeli goverment causes that persecution. 

 

The server just lost my post: I accidentally clicked "chat" for some unknown reason."  

Great tribulation takes place when the armed forces place the abomination of desolation. It will be a time of great tribulation, unlike there has ever been or ever shall be agsin...

Jesus said those days of GT would come AFTER the abomination. We can locate the abomination because Jesus told those in Judea to flee when they see it, and we see that fleeing in 12:6. That verse then would place that point in John's narrative as just a second or two after the abomination. Therefore, the days of GT Jesus spoke of must come AFTER 12:6. 

When we discover what and who will CAUSE those days of GT (great tribulation) then we can be precise. it will be the Beast and False prophet (and all who are used by them) who will create days of GT. How? They will create and image and force all to bow  - or lose their head - think Nebuchadnezzar. Then they will create a mark and force all to receive this mark - or lose their head. But God will send an angel to warn everyone that taking the mark will doom them to the lake of fire. So GREAT PRESSURE (GT) will be put upon people, try to run, try to hide. We see that God's warning for this mark comes in chapter 14, so the mark will not be enforced until after that. So the days of GT that Jesus spoke of will not come until late in chapter 14.  Therefore, the GT found in chapter 7 cannot be the same time or the same events.   

A time when heavenly objects fall to the earth like falling stars. The sky departing from the earth like a scroll being rolled together and a great earthquake.   You are talking about the events of the 6th seal. Sorry, but this is before the 7th seal is opened so of course before the BOOK can be opened to reveal the trumpet judgments. Most people ignore the passing of time as one reads through Revelation. For example, from the 7th seal to the 7th trumpet will be 42 months, and from the 7th trumpet to the 7th vial will be another 42 months. In other words, the events you describe are the opening of the Day of the Lord, before any part of the 70th week. 

That is great tribulation.  No, it is the start of the Day of the Lord. 

It is after that, that John sees the great multitude which come out of great tribulation.   Agreed. Since Paul places his rapture just before wrath or just before the Day of the Lord, that places the rapture just before the 6th seal. (Many people see a coming at the 6th seal.) The truth is, His coming (as told by Paul in 1 thes. 4) will be a moment BEFORE the 6th seal. This is why I am convinced this great crowd is the raptured church. All I am saying is, it cannot be the days of GT that Jesus spoke of that come much later in Revelation. 

Before this there is tribulation suffered by the saints in Israel for the space of 42 months.  Would you be talking about the first half of the week, or the second half? 

[luigi]

On 8/15/2020 at 9:37 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

Jesus said a candlestick is a church in Revelation. (an assembly) 

 

God has given the USA enough power to destroy the world. 

Does that mean its God's will and the USA should destroy the world? 

The United States military has power to shut up the heavens so that it doesn't rain. The US military has power to strike the earth with plagues as often as it will. The United States military can make fire come down out of heaven with the simplest command. The command "fire" which proceeds from the mouth to devour thier enemies. 

God has given the US goverment that kind of power. But does it mean it's God's will or is it Christ like to torture people because God has given you enough power to do so? 

According to Revelation 6:2, it seems to me that the Lord has given the rider of the white horse the authority to conquer the nations it wills. This also seems to correlate with the data about the beast where he shall devour the world's resources in Daniel 7:23.

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The server just lost my post: I accidentally clicked "chat" for some unknown reason."  

Great tribulation takes place when the armed forces place the abomination of desolation. It will be a time of great tribulation, unlike there has ever been or ever shall be agsin...

Jesus said those days of GT would come AFTER the abomination. We can locate the abomination because Jesus told those in Judea to flee when they see it, and we see that fleeing in 12:6. That verse then would place that point in John's narrative as just a second or two after the abomination. Therefore, the days of GT Jesus spoke of must come AFTER 12:6. 

When we discover what and who will CAUSE those days of GT (great tribulation) then we can be precise. it will be the Beast and False prophet (and all who are used by them) who will create days of GT. How? They will create and image and force all to bow  - or lose their head - think Nebuchadnezzar. Then they will create a mark and force all to receive this mark - or lose their head. But God will send an angel to warn everyone that taking the mark will doom them to the lake of fire. So GREAT PRESSURE (GT) will be put upon people, try to run, try to hide. We see that God's warning for this mark comes in chapter 14, so the mark will not be enforced until after that. So the days of GT that Jesus spoke of will not come until late in chapter 14.  Therefore, the GT found in chapter 7 cannot be the same time or the same events.   

A time when heavenly objects fall to the earth like falling stars. The sky departing from the earth like a scroll being rolled together and a great earthquake.   You are talking about the events of the 6th seal. Sorry, but this is before the 7th seal is opened so of course before the BOOK can be opened to reveal the trumpet judgments. Most people ignore the passing of time as one reads through Revelation. For example, from the 7th seal to the 7th trumpet will be 42 months, and from the 7th trumpet to the 7th vial will be another 42 months. In other words, the events you describe are the opening of the Day of the Lord, before any part of the 70th week. 

That is great tribulation.  No, it is the start of the Day of the Lord. 

It is after that, that John sees the great multitude which come out of great tribulation.   Agreed. Since Paul places his rapture just before wrath or just before the Day of the Lord, that places the rapture just before the 6th seal. (Many people see a coming at the 6th seal.) The truth is, His coming (as told by Paul in 1 thes. 4) will be a moment BEFORE the 6th seal. This is why I am convinced this great crowd is the raptured church. All I am saying is, it cannot be the days of GT that Jesus spoke of that come much later in Revelation. 

Before this there is tribulation suffered by the saints in Israel for the space of 42 months.  Would you be talking about the first half of the week, or the second half? 

Actually the saints in Israel start being killed 42 months before the abomination of desolation is placed. 1290 days to be precise. 

When the king of the north offers Israel its gentile military to occupy Jerusalem, Israel implements Netatanyahus cashless society at that time. If my math is right the daily sacrifice is abolished about 27 days prior to the beginning of the witnesses testimony which lasts 1260 days

It is 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is abolished that the abomination of desolation is placed. That should be about when the witnesses ascend into heaven in the cloud caused by the abomination. 

According to Jesus the abomination that causes desolation is the cause of great tribulation. Daniel called it a time of distress unlike there has ever been. According to Daniel  his people would be delivered at that time and many who sleep in the dust shall awake. 

The beast known as the king of the South in Daniel attacks Israel and the armed forces offered to Israel by the king of the north(Israels ally). 

After the beast has attacked Jerusalem and killed the norths armed forces occupying Jerusalem, the king of the north responds sending a great fleet of ships to the middle east to destroy all the nations that attacked Jerusalem. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-39.htm

 

They should know not to take on that Christian nations military. God has made that country and its military exceedingly powerful for a reason. You mess with a country that has 6000 nuclear weapons your asking to be wiped off the face of the earth and this nation will gladly turn the beasts earth to glass. I know as lot of people who want to turn the middle east to glass. 

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-44.htm

Edited August 20, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Actually the saints in Israel start being killed 42 months before the abomination of desolation is placed. 1290 days to be precise. 

When the king of the north offers Israel its gentile military to occupy Jerusalem, Israel implements Netatanyahus cashless society at that time. If my math is right the daily sacrifice is abolished about 27 days prior to the beginning of the witnesses testimony which lasts 1260 days

It is 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is abolished that the abomination of desolation is placed. That should be about when the witnesses ascend into heaven in the cloud caused by the abomination. 

According to Jesus the abomination that causes desolation is the cause of great tribulation. Daniel called it a time of distress unlike there has ever been. According to Daniel  his people would be delivered at that time and many who sleep in the dust shall awake. 

The beast known as the king of the South in Daniel attacks Israel and the armed forces offered to Israel by the king of the north(Israels ally). 

After the beast has attacked Jerusalem and killed the norths armed forces occupying Jerusalem, the king of the north responds sending a great fleet of ships to the middle east to destroy all the nations that attacked Jerusalem. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/11-39.htm

 

They should know not to take on that Christian nations military. God has made that country and its military exceedingly powerful for a reason. You mess with a country that has 6000 nuclear weapons your asking to be wiped off the face of the earth and this nation will gladly turn the beasts earth to glass. I know as lot of people who want to turn the middle east to glass. 

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-44.htm

Actually the saints in Israel start being killed 42 months before the abomination of desolation is placed.  Show is in scripture: I want to see proof. I doubt everything unless I see it written out in the Word.  The abomination will be placed at the same time the man of sin enters the temple, causing the sacrifices to cease. You are then saying that the saints start to be killed 30 days before the week starts! I doubt that seriously. 

1290 days to be precise.   So you wish to use 1290 backwards? The time, times and half are from the MIDPOINT to the end. the 1260 days (twice)  in Revelation are from the midpoint to the end.  the 42 months (twice)  in Revelation are from the midpoint to the end.Why wouldn't the 1290 be from the same starting point but to a point 30 days after the week ends? 

When Daniel heard the time, times and half of time, he had not being given an accurate starting point except perhaps the time Michael stands up, which Daniel would not see or know; only the time of great trouble. Now Daniel gets a very clear and precise starting point:  FROM:
"from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up..."

When the man of sin enters the temple, he will set up the abomination: so either one of these will work: they happen at the same time.   (Some people take this verse to be a FROM / TO statement. It is not. )

So does this mean the 1260 days given twice in Revelation is not accurate? Should they have been 1230 days (Using the 1290 days backwards to push the abomination back 30 days)? No, we can be sure that from the abomination to the end is 1260 days: we have that written twice in Revelation. It just makes more sense that THE WEEK ends with the time, times and half of time or 1260 days, or 42 months (at the 7th vial) but the beast has not yet been caught yet: Jesus does not return on that 1260th day. This could be the day Jesus comes and the Beast is caught, 30 days after the week ends.

When the king of the north offers Israel its gentile military to occupy Jerusalem, Israel implements Netatanyahus cashless society at that time.   I really hope you are not getting this from the news or current events! You MUST have a scripture to show us. Where in the world do you find this is scripture? Perhaps the 42 months of trampling?

It is 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is abolished that the abomination of desolation is placed. Since the daily sacrifice will be stopped when the man of sin enters the temple, at the exact midpoint of the week, then your 1290th day IS after the end of the week.  It seams you are taking verse 11 as a FROM / TO statement. Sorry, but there is no "to." it is an " AND." It is FROM THIS, and FROM that: two events that will happen at the same time. 

That should be about when the witnesses ascend into heaven in the cloud caused by the abomination. My friend, how does an abomination create a cloud?   The two witnesses will ascend at the 7th vial that ends the week: each of the 5 countdowns -  INCLUDING the 1260 days of witnessing - are for the last half of the week. They are killed 3 1/2 days before the end of the week and are resurrected AT the end of the week. Did you notice that HUGE, HUGE earthquake that sinks the mountains down into the earth. It is when God raises the OT saints - and those from before the flood: those bodies have been dead so long, and the dust scattered by the flood, just to reform one body, God may pull "dust" from hundreds of miles. This resurrection will cause the world's worst earthquake - just what we see here. The Two Witnesses will be Old Testament saints, and will rise with them. 

According to Jesus the abomination that causes desolation is the cause of great tribulation.   That is not really what Jesus said. What He said was, "THEN shall be GT." WHEN? Some time AFTER the abomination.  What will CAUSE the days of GT will be forcing people to bow to an idol and take a mark, when they know it will doom them to the lake of fire.  These things start in Revelation at the end of chapter 14. 

According to Daniel  his people would be delivered at that time and many who sleep in the dust shall awake.  I think this happens at that great earthquake at the 7th vial.

The beast known as the king of the South in Daniel attacks Israel and the armed forces offered to Israel by the king of the north(Israels ally).  I want to see this backed up with scripture, please.

It is good speculation: I think it will be VERY DIFFICULT to prove by scripture that the US is involved.