Do Seals and Trumpets Work Together?

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, Uriah said:

As you pointed out, the seals and trumpets work together. The 7th trumpet reveals the dead being judged and saints being rewarded. This is at the end. For this reason I said there has been ongoing wrath until the point when the trumpets are all sounded.

I agree. But I think the 7th trumpet is the time of the change from man's governance to the rule of Christ. Before Jesus arrives it's been man's time to self govern. After that it's the time of God's rule dwelling with mankind. Some things happen immediately like the defense of Jerusalem and the defeat of the rebels and others happen later, like New Jerusalem coming down from heaven. The rewards of the saints probably happens soon after the defeat of rebel armies and the judgment of those who destroy the earth maybe later, after the millennium. I don't know for sure of course but I do know all of it can't happen at exactly the same moment. The time has come to reward the saints and judge the destroyers but we don't know what time span. Could be inside a week or a year. Maybe 1000 years.

I have to reject the idea that God's wrath is occurring if saints are on earth. Satan's wrath yes. "The devil has come down to you in great wrath, knowing he has a short time."

[Diaste]

6 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

In Rev. 13  we see 42 months

Rev. 11, 1260 days

Then 1290  and 1335 days on Dan. 12

= 3 1/2 years

I just meant depending on the circumstance the time period might not be literal.

"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast." - Rev 17

I don't think this is 60 minutes. It's a metaphor for a specific moment in time till the moment ends.

Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and grief and famine— and she will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.” - Rev 18

“Woe, woe to the great city, the mighty city of Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come.” - Rev 18

Another moment that may or may not be a literal hour. So the half hour of silence could be...?

[Diaste]

2 minutes ago, SONshine said:

In Revelation 6:17, it should be “His” wrath, shouldn’t it?  It’s the cup of His wrath that’s being poured out at the end of this age.

 

I suppose it appears as 'their' because of other phrases in the NT that declare the wrath of God. Maybe the translators feel as if it's the wrath of both the Father(Romans, Ephesians, John) and the Son and so 'their' is fitting in some versions.

In my mind I go with, "If you have seen me you have seen the Father." "I and the Father are one." 

If it's the wrath of the Lamb it is also the wrath of the Father. 

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, Uriah said:

As you pointed out, the seals and trumpets work together. The 7th trumpet reveals the dead being judged and saints being rewarded. This is at the end. For this reason I said there has been ongoing wrath until the point when the trumpets are all sounded.

 There is a huge difference between Tribulation and Wrath.  

And for others just a little more clarification on
The dead being judged and saints being rewarded comes after Satan is loosed at the end of the 1000 years, the end of the Lords Day after the last battle and at the Throne Judgment/lake of fire, before the New and improved Heaven and earth.  

Wrath is not something casual like the plagues and stuff.  

The difference between the two  (need to look them up yourself,  as this is just the gist)

Tribulation   -   is felt and happening here on the earth and is more internal,  
Gods Wrath  -  is coming from heaven and is more external.

Tribulation is  -   persecution, affliction, distress, pressure, 

2347 thlípsis –  tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").

 carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

 (and for a little more clarity check out  4730 stenoxōría  distress which is more external)

Wrath   -  on the other hand is : anger, wrath, passion; punishment, vengeance.  

3709  rising up from an ongoing (fixed) opposition.  Orgē comes from the verb oragō meaning 'to teem, to swell'  implies it is not a sudden outburst, but rather God's  fixed, controlled, passionate feeling against sin . . . a settled indignation

God is LONG SUFFERING.  With that,
He has been watching all this evil going on and it's BUILDING UP. HE HAS TO WAIT until  'IT IS FINISHED'  to let it lose, because His Wrath will end it. 

He has allowed the choices to be made and has watched the most evil and sinful  and deceptive and things HE HATES happening to the people and planet He created for HIS PLEASURE.  And it's not just for HIM but those who LOVE HIM (Who He loved first) (and also the ignorant being taken advantage of). 
 
He has been watching evil souls take candy from babies for years AND FINALLY, finally, finally HE GETS TO LET IT GO and all those who have ignored or stuck their noses up at HIS POWER are going to get it.  THERE WILL BE NO QUESTION LEFT  in any mind of 

WHO IS WHO AND WHAT IS WAHT , and THAT SHAKING IS HAPPEING ON HEAVEN AND EARTH.   

It's not like he hasn't warned us.  It not like it wasn't written for everyone to read and see and choose in
THE BEST SELLER OF ALL TIME, HIS WORD, The Bible. 

 

[RonaldBruno]

21 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 There is a huge difference between Tribulation and Wrath.  

And for others just a little more clarification on
The dead being judged and saints being rewarded comes after Satan is loosed at the end of the 1000 years, the end of the Lords Day after the last battle and at the Throne Judgment/lake of fire, before the New and improved Heaven and earth.  

Wrath is not something casual like the plagues and stuff.  

The difference between the two  (need to look them up yourself,  as this is just the gist)

Tribulation   -   is felt and happening here on the earth and is more internal,  
Gods Wrath  -  is coming from heaven and is more external.

Tribulation is  -   persecution, affliction, distress, pressure, 

2347 thlípsis –  tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").

 carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

 (and for a little more clarity check out  4730 stenoxōría  distress which is more external)

Wrath   -  on the other hand is : anger, wrath, passion; punishment, vengeance.  

3709  rising up from an ongoing (fixed) opposition.  Orgē comes from the verb oragō meaning 'to teem, to swell'  implies it is not a sudden outburst, but rather God's  fixed, controlled, passionate feeling against sin . . . a settled indignation

God is LONG SUFFERING.  With that,
He has been watching all this evil going on and it's BUILDING UP. HE HAS TO WAIT until  'IT IS FINISHED'  to let it lose, because His Wrath will end it. 

He has allowed the choices to be made and has watched the most evil and sinful  and deceptive and things HE HATES happening to the people and planet He created for HIS PLEASURE.  And it's not just for HIM but those who LOVE HIM (Who He loved first) (and also the ignorant being taken advantage of). 
 
He has been watching evil souls take candy from babies for years AND FINALLY, finally, finally HE GETS TO LET IT GO and all those who have ignored or stuck their noses up at HIS POWER are going to get it.  THERE WILL BE NO QUESTION LEFT  in any mind of 

WHO IS WHO AND WHAT IS WAHT , and THAT SHAKING IS HAPPEING ON HEAVEN AND EARTH.   

It's not like he hasn't warned us.  It not like it wasn't written for everyone to read and see and choose in
THE BEST SELLER OF ALL TIME, HIS WORD, The Bible. 

 

The wrath if God comes towards the end if the Great Tribulation period. The wrath exists in the 7 Bowls "filled with God's wrath" (Rev. 15:7). Therefore, wrath comes prior to the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom. This does not negate that at the end of the 1000 years, God will also judge those within that time period who have sinned and additionally any who have died without Christ after the First Resurrection.

But you are right that Christians have been and will be subject to tribulation ... But spared God's wrath, which is strictly assigned to all unbelievers.

We also can view the "Day of the Lord" as including both periods of judgment, one prior to the Millennial Kingdom and one at the end of it.

"One day to the Lord is as 1000 years ..."

[WilliamL]

16 hours ago, RonaldBruno said:

In Rev. 13  we see 42 months

Rev. 11, 1260 days

Then 1290  and 1335 days on Dan. 12

= 3 1/2 years

And in Dan. 7 and 12, 3 1/2 times.

The 1290 days come first, then the 45, then the 1260.

The first two are pre-wrath and pre-rapture.

The latter is during the wrath and post-rapture.

Blog articles on this subject:

29. The 1290 and 1335 Days of Daniel 12:11-12

Presents a more literal and accurate translation of Daniel 12:11-12, and explains what this prophecy reveals about the sequence of End Time events.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1440-the-1290-and-1335-days-of-daniel-1211-12/

30. The 1260 Days

Describes where in the sequence of End Time events the 1260 days/3½ time/42 months prophecies of Daniel 7 and 12 and Revelation 11-12-13 will be fulfilled, what will happen in those days, and how they will end.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1449-the-1260-days/

[Uriah]

On 8/20/2020 at 2:42 PM, DeighAnn said:

 There is a huge difference between Tribulation and Wrath.  

And for others just a little more clarification on
The dead being judged and saints being rewarded comes after Satan is loosed at the end of the 1000 years, the end of the Lords Day after the last battle and at the Throne Judgment/lake of fire, before the New and improved Heaven and earth.  

Wrath is not something casual like the plagues and stuff.  

The difference between the two  (need to look them up yourself,  as this is just the gist)

Tribulation   -   is felt and happening here on the earth and is more internal,  
Gods Wrath  -  is coming from heaven and is more external.

Tribulation is  -   persecution, affliction, distress, pressure, 

2347 thlípsis –  tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").

 carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

 (and for a little more clarity check out  4730 stenoxōría  distress which is more external)

Wrath   -  on the other hand is : anger, wrath, passion; punishment, vengeance.  

3709  rising up from an ongoing (fixed) opposition.  Orgē comes from the verb oragō meaning 'to teem, to swell'  implies it is not a sudden outburst, but rather God's  fixed, controlled, passionate feeling against sin . . . a settled indignation

God is LONG SUFFERING.  With that,
He has been watching all this evil going on and it's BUILDING UP. HE HAS TO WAIT until  'IT IS FINISHED'  to let it lose, because His Wrath will end it. 

He has allowed the choices to be made and has watched the most evil and sinful  and deceptive and things HE HATES happening to the people and planet He created for HIS PLEASURE.  And it's not just for HIM but those who LOVE HIM (Who He loved first) (and also the ignorant being taken advantage of). 
 
He has been watching evil souls take candy from babies for years AND FINALLY, finally, finally HE GETS TO LET IT GO and all those who have ignored or stuck their noses up at HIS POWER are going to get it.  THERE WILL BE NO QUESTION LEFT  in any mind of 

WHO IS WHO AND WHAT IS WAHT , and THAT SHAKING IS HAPPEING ON HEAVEN AND EARTH.   

It's not like he hasn't warned us.  It not like it wasn't written for everyone to read and see and choose in
THE BEST SELLER OF ALL TIME, HIS WORD, The Bible. 

 

Hello DeighAnn

Thanks for your message. Many have pointed these things out for some time now. Since this topic makes the case for seals working together and I have said that wrote the same about the trumpets and vials there is a connection worth looking at. Specifically, the 7 vials have the completion of God's wrath and certainly there are references to the wrath at the end of the seals it becomes clear there is an emphasis of wrath at the end. This is not to say there is no wrath before the end, but its completion is at the end. There is a reference of wrath at the end of the trumpets as well.

So it is fair to say the wrath is ongoing through all of these things. Indeed, those experiencing such cataclysms would not squabble about tribulation vs wrath. God's anger brings about the pains of suffering from His vengeance and they feel they are certainly in tribulation by being confined and restricted by such calamities, destruction and judgment poured out on them. In these cases one goes with the other.

[RonaldBruno]

On 8/20/2020 at 2:43 PM, WilliamL said:

And in Dan. 7 and 12, 3 1/2 times.

The 1290 days come first, then the 45, then the 1260.

The first two are pre-wrath and pre-rapture.

The latter is during the wrath and post-rapture.

Blog articles on this subject:

29. The 1290 and 1335 Days of Daniel 12:11-12

Presents a more literal and accurate translation of Daniel 12:11-12, and explains what this prophecy reveals about the sequence of End Time events.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1440-the-1290-and-1335-days-of-daniel-1211-12/

30. The 1260 Days

Describes where in the sequence of End Time events the 1260 days/3½ time/42 months prophecies of Daniel 7 and 12 and Revelation 11-12-13 will be fulfilled, what will happen in those days, and how they will end.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1449-the-1260-days/

I am aware of the 7 year tribulation view, I don't view it thay way. I see it as the 1260 and 1290 within the 1335, 3 1/2 years plus roughly 2 months.

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hello DeighAnn

Thanks for your message. Many have pointed these things out for some time now. Since this topic makes the case for seals working together and I have said that wrote the same about the trumpets and vials there is a connection worth looking at. Specifically, the 7 vials have the completion of God's wrath and certainly there are references to the wrath at the end of the seals it becomes clear there is an emphasis of wrath at the end. This is not to say there is no wrath before the end, but its completion is at the end. There is a reference of wrath at the end of the trumpets as well.

So it is fair to say the wrath is ongoing through all of these things. Indeed, those experiencing such cataclysms would not squabble about tribulation vs wrath. God's anger brings about the pains of suffering from His vengeance and they feel they are certainly in tribulation by being confined and restricted by such calamities, destruction and judgment poured out on them. In these cases one goes with the other.

Hello to you Uriah, 

I see what you are saying but I go back to 

Jeremiah 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Jeremiah 23:7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

Jeremiah 23:8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

Jeremiah 23:9 Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of His holiness.

Jeremiah 23:10 For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.

Jeremiah 23:11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.

Jeremiah 23:14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

Jeremiah 23:15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.

Jeremiah 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

NO, not that one but

Jeremiah 23:34 And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the LORD, I will even punish that man and his house.

Jeremiah 23:35 Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the LORD answered? and, What hath the LORD spoken?

Jeremiah 23:36 And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God.

Jeremiah 23:37 Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the LORD answered thee? and, What hath the LORD spoken?

Jeremiah 23:38 But since ye say, The burden of the LORD; therefore thus saith the LORD; Because ye say this word, The burden of the LORD, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the LORD;

Jeremiah 23:39 Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:

Jeremiah 23:40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.

No, not that one either.   Wrong place for the point I am looking for but still a good description of how God thinks and acts.  And since HE is the same ALWAYS you can bet this applies to the children today.



Here is the point I am trying to make in a nut shell

 

Proverbs 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

Proverbs 29:16 When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth: but the righteous shall see their fall.

Proverbs 29:17 Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul.

Proverbs 29:18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

Proverbs 29:19 A servant will not be corrected by words: for though he understand he will not answer.

The tribulation is a testing time.  God doesn't want us to fail.  The trumps TO MY BELIEF are the rods of correction before the wrath comes upon those WHO WILL NOT LISTEN/will not be corrected.  Some/many just refuse to open their eyes and ears.  BUT think about it,  it is always the time when things are going wrong that we look to God  and

Gods wrath  falls upon THEM.  And some of the thems aren't going to be a them at the end. So how could God be pouring out His wrath before that time?  

This is just how I read it.  I think it causes undo fear to "the little ones/babes in Christ" to hear Gods Wrath is pouring out the entire time of the Tribulation.  Isn't it bad enough to know we will be dealing with a deceiver SO good that the time had to be shortened or else no flesh would be alive and remaining to be saved?

When WRATH is casually thrown upon tribulation, it's NO WONDER that  'THEORY'   is so popular.  If I believed that to be true,  I would probably be looking for an easy escape too (Not really).  As it is, I've been kept from the Hour of Temptation already.  I will not be tempted in the least little bit.  I am aware of not only what I am not supposed to do but also what I am suppose to do.  I know what is going to happen and when and AND MOST OF ALL I KNOW WHO IS REALLY DOING IT AND WHY.  Until this corruptible is made incorruptible, I am worshipping NO ONE AND NOTHING FOR ANY REASON.  

Everything we have been told would happen before the "coming up from underground/coming to the forefront from behind the scenes/coming out of the shadows into the light/the man behind the mask being revealed, has happened already

EXCEPT for 

THE SEALING OF THE SERVANTS OF GOD. 

The WORD is/has been made available to everyone in the world.  So all the nations/ethnos/gentiles have received  THE WORD OF GOD.  So the fullness of the gentiles came in awhile back, blindness is/has been coming off of Israel and  knowledge is increasing while at the same time there is a famine for the WORD OF GOD.  Just look around these forums.  THERE is a heavy famine for GODS TRUTH. 

Have we moved at all far from the days when Jews wanted a sign and the Greeks  exalted worldly wisdom above divine revelation?  NO, look at all the divisions today.  Worldly wisdom, that is what divides us.  The simplicity in Christ made void by all "math" required by some to reach an understanding  that is so complicated they don't even agree with hardly anything about it themselves.

 Time to say good night Gracie, good night Gracie.    
 

[WilliamL]

On 8/21/2020 at 4:15 PM, RonaldBruno said:

On 8/20/2020 at 1:43 PM, WilliamL said:

And in Dan. 7 and 12, 3 1/2 times.

The 1290 days come first, then the 45, then the 1260.

The first two are pre-wrath and pre-rapture.

The latter is during the wrath and post-rapture.

Blog articles on this subject:

29. The 1290 and 1335 Days of Daniel 12:11-12

Presents a more literal and accurate translation of Daniel 12:11-12, and explains what this prophecy reveals about the sequence of End Time events.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1440-the-1290-and-1335-days-of-daniel-1211-12/

30. The 1260 Days

Describes where in the sequence of End Time events the 1260 days/3½ time/42 months prophecies of Daniel 7 and 12 and Revelation 11-12-13 will be fulfilled, what will happen in those days, and how they will end.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1449-the-1260-days/

I am aware of the 7 year tribulation view, I don't view it thay way. I see it as the 1260 and 1290 within the 1335, 3 1/2 years plus roughly 2 months.

What I show is not at all related to "the 7 year tribulation view" with respect to Daniel 9. As the articles make clear, and the reasons why.

Everyone is welcome to their views; but few can provide a concrete scriptural foundation to support them.