The Antichrist's seven year covenant with many

[Retrobyter]

19 hours ago, iamlamad said:

This is just more MYTH give out as if it is fact. Why not just believe John? They SHOW UP in 11:3.

The man of sin is revealed in 11:15.

Shalom, iamlamad.

I'm sorry for missing this at first, but with all due respect ... ARE YOU NUTS?!!! "The man of sin is revealed in 11:15"??!!!

Revelation 11:15-19 (KJV)

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven (loud voices in the sky), saying,

"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ (of His Messiah, Yeshua` or "Jesus"); and he shall reign for ever and ever!" 

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying,

"We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned! 18 And 'the nations were angry,' and 'thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth (the Land)."

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven (Greek: eenoigee ho naos tou Theou ho en too ouranoo = "the Temple of-the God was-broken-open that-one by the sky"), and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The word "eenoigee" is THE SAME WORD used to "break open" the seals (although eenoigee is passive while the word eenoixen in Rev. 6:1, for instance, is active)!

19 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Those in judea flee in 12:6 proving the abomination (the revealing) is just before this.

And, this was a BAD connection assumed between the Olivet Discourse and Revelation. Y'know, people CAN run away from different things and at different times, right? The contexts of both Revelation 12:6 and Matthew 24:16 are NOT linked in either context! Furthermore, I believe that the context of Matthew 24 definitely shows that this happened in 66 A.D. and is NOT something that must be done or done again sometime in our future!

19 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Of course then, they DO Show up before the Beast is revealed. 

They do Not show up before the Day of the Lord. (the 6th seal) But then, they don't have to. Jesus proved that: John the Baptist came in the SPIRIT of Elijah fulfilling Malachi's prophecy. 

I will give you this: you certainly THINK you know. 

Proverbially, this is the pot calling the kettle "black."

[Retrobyter]

On 8/26/2020 at 8:14 AM, luigi said:

In Daniel 9:27 we see an individual who confirms a covenant with many for a week, which are seven years. If, as many assume this individual to be the Antichrist, who is also the beast's mouth, would the seven year covenant with many then correlate with Revelation 13:7, in which the beast's mouth is given power over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations?

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Shalom, luigi.

The person who "confirms the covenant with many for one week" cannot be "the prince that shall come" in 9:26. That person cannot be the subject of the verbs in 9:27. The "antecedent of the 'he's'" in verse 27 (or rather the subject of the Hebrew verbs in verse 27) MUST go back to "the Messiah" of verse 26. THEREFORE, the "Antichrist" or the "beast's mouth" cannot be found in Daniel 9:24-27.

SO,

you are building your theories on the "covenant (confirmed) with many for one week" upon a faulty premise. It's time to scrap this line of thinking and re-start your eschatological viewpoint from at least that point onward.

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

I'm sorry for missing this at first, but with all due respect ... ARE YOU NUTS?!!! "The man of sin is revealed in 11:15"??!!!

Revelation 11:15-19 (KJV)

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven (loud voices in the sky), saying,

"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ (of His Messiah, Yeshua` or "Jesus"); and he shall reign for ever and ever!" 

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying,

"We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned! 18 And 'the nations were angry,' and 'thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth (the Land)."

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven (Greek: eenoigee ho naos tou Theou ho en too ouranoo = "the Temple of-the God was-broken-open that-one by the sky"), and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The word "eenoigee" is THE SAME WORD used to "break open" the seals (although eenoigee is passive while the word eenoixen in Rev. 6:1, for instance, is active)!

And, this was a BAD connection assumed between the Olivet Discourse and Revelation. Y'know, people CAN run away from different things and at different times, right? The contexts of both Revelation 12:6 and Matthew 24:16 are NOT linked in either context! Furthermore, I believe that the context of Matthew 24 definitely shows that this happened in 66 A.D. and is NOT something that must be done or done again sometime in our future!

Proverbially, this is the pot calling the kettle "black."

No, I am not nuts. Jesus spoke to me: I heard these words: "you could find that exact midpoint clearly marked." (I had just read the word "midst" in Daniel 9:27) I asked Him how. He answered: "Every time I mentioned an event that would start at the midpoint and go to the end of the week, I always included the 3 1/2 year period of time: when you find the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, you will be very close to the exact midpoint." Almost as an afterthought, He said, "in fact, you could find the entire week 'clearly marked.'" When He said that, suddenly I knew why: He would use the same marker.

From His words, we can KNOW certain things: One, there IS an exact midpoint. Second, it is "clearly marked." All I needed to know is what God used for the "marker." (I think another thing we can know from His words is that the entire 70th week is in our future.)

Jesus told those in Judea to flee the moment that saw the abomination (the very event that would divide the week). We see that fleeing begin in 12:6. Therefore, that verse is perhaps 2 or 3 seconds after the abomination event: I am accounting for reaction time. If we back up looking for the abomination, we won't find it: John did not see it and so did not write it. But if we back up looking for a marker, we find the 7th trumpet.  When I saw this, I suspected I had found what He sent me to find: the exact midpoint. I flipped quickly to the 7th vial (the same "marker") and read, "it is done."  then I knew I had found what He sent me to find: the entire 70th week "clearly marked." I flipped quickly to the 7th seal and read of the 30 minutes of silence: I had found the entire 70th week "clearly marked." 

Now, you have a choice: you can use your great wisdom and try to argue around this or against it. Or, you could learn from it. Your choice. Of course you can continue to believe as some do that this was fulfilled in early church history. Again your choice - but you would be wrong. The entire 70th week is future to us today. The midpoint - the dividing point - will be when the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is god.. At that moment the 7th trumpet will sound in heaven marking that moment in time. It will also be the moment in time that Adam's lease of 6000 years expires, and suddenly Satan finds NO MORE LEGAL HOLD to earth. He is then kicked off his throne as god of this world. The world is taken from Him and given to Jesus Christ. 

It is VERY MUCH like God to "mark" the 70th week with 7's. 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, luigi.

The person who "confirms the covenant with many for one week" cannot be "the prince that shall come" in 9:26. That person cannot be the subject of the verbs in 9:27. The "antecedent of the 'he's'" in verse 27 (or rather the subject of the Hebrew verbs in verse 27) MUST go back to "the Messiah" of verse 26. THEREFORE, the "Antichrist" or the "beast's mouth" cannot be found in Daniel 9:24-27.

SO,

you are building your theories on the "covenant (confirmed) with many for one week" upon a faulty premise. It's time to scrap this line of thinking and re-start your eschatological viewpoint from at least that point onward.

This is a theory that millions simply don't believe. You can hold onto it if you choose. 

[iamlamad]

22 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

This is too funny, the same way we LOOK ON HIM and Repent. The fact that you think 1/3 of the Jews Repent at the Second Coming and 2/3 Reject Jesus is just odd man !! The fact that you think God doesn't DEMAND Salvation by Faith alone is strange man !! Zechariah 12:10 is BEFORE the DOTL man !! (Zechariah 14:1-2) You just are't well versed on the scriptures, or you are just stubborn in your beliefs. I have seen all types of Christians via my 35 years, so nothing surprises me. The DOTL starts at the first Trump, again, its nobody else's fault that you can't see that the Seals aren't even actionable. The Jews have to come to Jesus by FAITH just like we do, God is not going to just except the Jews because they are Jews, they have to come unto Christ by Faith alone. You saying 1//3 will be accepted and 2/3 not accepted makes no sense. Saying the Jews have to LOOK UPON Jesus to look at the one they pierced is just baffling tbh.  

It means in THAT DAY when the Jews REPENT !! Which is BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord !! As Malachi 4:5-6 says, as Zechariah 14:1-2 SHOWS. The 6th Seal is not ACTIONABLE, but the 6th Seal foretells of the Day of the Lord that BEGINS at the First Four Trumps (which are all the SAME EVENT). So, the Day of the Lord is not THAT DAY spoken about in Zechariah 13:1 brother, you conflate EVERYTHING, Zechariah's THAT DAY, is about the day they REPENT !! Which is BEFORE the DOTL. You got your THAT DAYS mixed up, one is about Repentance, and one is about Gods Wrath. The only MYTH is you not understanding the passages brother, you conflate things that should be easy to understand. 

Perhaps you are BRAGGING about knowing something, and others are shaking their heads at you for conflating the DOTL with THAT DAY in which Israel REPENTS, which Malachi 4:5-6 tells is is BEFORE the DOTL (whIch you say it is, even that that is not THE DAY they are speaking of.....CONFLATION of Events).........and Zechariah 14:1-2 SHOWS US that the DOTL comes AFTER THAT DAY.....(Of Repentance). 

You are real good at confusing scriptures and conflating issues, I give you that. 

Wrong, the DOTL lasts for 3.5 years until Jesus' Return, then for his 1000 year reign. but it doesn't last for all 7 years of the 70th week. The DOTL starts at the 1260, in the Middle of the Week. You truly were not called to Prophecy brother. Not only do you mix everything up and conflate issues, but then you attack the truths when given them. 

The Spoil divided is after the Day of the Lord which starts in the Middle of the Week, the Repentance of the Jews happen between the 1335 and the 1290, both are a set number of days until the Second Coming ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS. The first is the Two-witnesses showing up 1335 days BEFORE Jesus' Second Coming (Ends these wonders) the 1290 is the False Prophet forbidding Jesus Worship and placing an Image of the E.U. President in the Temple, THE SIGN the Jews who have already REPENTED heed, and thus Flee Judea, just BEFORE the 1260 MIDDLE OF THE WEEK, where the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem. 

You clearly were not called to Prophecy brother. Find your calling.

Jesus is OUR SACRIFICE, you want to deny that? 

The book of Revelation is not in Chronological Order. You thinking it is leaves you in a bad pole position to start with, you can't get that which you can't understand via a TIMELINE that throws you off. The Beast Shows up in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK, thus he shows up in Rev. 8, not in Rev. 11 which is a Parenthetical Citation Chapter about the Two-witnesses. They show up BEFORE Revelation 8, that is who preachers REPENTANCE to the 144,000 (Fleeing Jews who really number in the millions). 

You really ought to find your calling brother, its not End Time Eschatology. 

God Bless.

I go by what is written. It is clear many here don't. 
i am glad you did not write Revelation. I am glad John did. You can deny his chronology all you want: you won't change what is written. It is TRUTH that the Day of the Lord as John wrote at the 6th seal will start before the 70th week.  I don't think you know where the 70th week starts. When all these things begin to come to pass, they are going to happen in John's order! Wait and see. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, everyone.

Too much focus on details without a full understanding of the general points, first. If one has an incorrect understanding of Daniel 9:24-27, then one's interpretation of God's Word is EVERYWHERE flawed. For many decades, people have been arguing the finer points of Revelation without first understanding the prophecies of the TANAKH (the "Old Testament").

One CANNOT understand the details of the Revelation of Yeshua` the Messiah without first understanding the details of the prophecies quoted directly or indirectly in the Revelation.

On the other hand, by understanding Revelation, they have help understanding Dan. 9:27. The entire 70th week is "clearly marked" in Revelation.  

[Revelation Man]

14 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I go by what is written. It is clear many here don't. 
i am glad you did not write Revelation. I am glad John did. You can deny his chronology all you want: you won't change with is written. It is TRUTH that the Day of the Lord as John wrote at the 6th seal will start before the 70th week.  I don't think you know where the 70th week starts. When all these things begin to come to pass, they are going to happen in John's order! Wait and see. 

God gave it to Jesus..............anyone can COPY............That is why a lot of people say it doesn't look like Johns writing. It is God's....He gave it to Jesus to give to us. I could have copied it, even you could have copied it, but I don't think you would have ever understood it. John probably didn't understand it, like Daniel didn't understand what he was given. It took time to understand these things via HISTORY.

The part where it says Many will go TO & FRO, doesn't mean TRAVEL, it means many will go over Daniels writings TO & FRO (Back and forth, as we read) and in the very end men's Knowledge will increase, and we will be given these understandings. The Computer and the Internet has given men the ability to learn much faster. Can you imagine having to go to a library to get so and so's book, or his opinions, where we can juxtapose off each other? 

I have learned much via debates on many message boards, many times while studying to prove some crazy idea to be CRAZY indeed I run across vast knowledge that I might have never found. HARD WORK brings fruition. When you get to Heaven and find out the Seals were only opened during the 70th week, I am going to bust a gut on you .......take it like a man.......I mean like a Glorious Body would with gentile acknowledgment of my specialized insight. Whom God chose to give because I sought long and hard, day after day for 30 plus years. 

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

This is a theory that millions simply don't believe. You can hold onto it if you choose. 

Shalom, iamlamad.

Millions that don't see the truth? Yeah, I can see that happening.

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

No, I am not nuts. Jesus spoke to me: I heard these words: "you could find that exact midpoint clearly marked." (I had just read the word "midst" in Daniel 9:27) I asked Him how. He answered: "Every time I mentioned an event that would start at the midpoint and go to the end of the week, I always included the 3 1/2 year period of time: when you find the mentions of the 3 /3 years, you will be very close to the exact midpoint." Almost as an afterthought, He said, "in fact, you could find the entire week 'clearly marked.'" When He said that, suddenly I knew why: He would use the same marker.

From His words, we can KNOW certain things: One, there IS an exact midpoint. Second, it is "clearly marked." All I needed to know is what God used for the "marker." (I think another thing we can know from His words is that the entire 70th week is in our future.)

Jesus told those in Judea to flee the moment that saw the abomination (the very event that would divide the week). We see that fleeing begin in 12:6. Therefore, that verse is perhaps 2 or 3 seconds after the abomination event: I am accounting for reaction time. If we back up looking for the abomination, we won't find it: John did not see it and so did not write it. But if we back up looking for a marker, we find the 7th trumpet.  When I saw this, I suspected I had found what He sent me to find: the exact midpoint. I flipped quickly to the 7th vial (the same "marker") and read, "it is done."  then I knew I had found what He sent me to find: the entire 70th week "clearly marked." I flipped quickly to the 7th seal and read of the 30 minutes of silence: I had found the entire 70th week "clearly marked." 

Now, you have a choice: you can use your great wisdom and try to argue around this or against it. Or, you could learn from it. Your choice. Of course you can continue to believe as some do that this was fulfilled in early church history. Again your choice - but you would be wrong. The entire 70th week is future to us today. The midpoint - the dividing point - will be when the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is god.. At that moment the 7th trumpet will sound in heaven marking that moment in time. It will also be the moment in time that Adam's lease of 6000 years expires, and suddenly Satan finds NO MORE LEGAL HOLD to earth. He is then kicked off his throne as god of this world. The world is taken from Him and given to Jesus Christ. 

It is VERY MUCH like God to "mark" the 70th week with 7's. 

Shalom, iamlamad.

Hmmmm.... Tell me, why is the WHOLE Seven ("Week") yet in the future? Can you give me a Scriptural reason?

I can tell you why half of the Seven is in the past and half is postponed into the future. Yeshua` divided the Seven in half. What's your excuse?

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

Hmmmm.... Tell me, why is the WHOLE Seven ("Week") yet in the future? Can you give me a Scriptural reason?

I can tell you why half of the Seven is in the past and half is postponed into the future. Yeshua` divided the Seven in half. What's your excuse?

Rather, you can tell us why you THINK half of the Seventieth week is future. I know the entire week is future. One day you will know it too.

Edited August 31, 2020 by iamlamad