Marathoner Posted October 6, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,144 Content Per Day: 7.06 Reputation: 13,104 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2020 (edited) Knowledge of the spiritual has fallen away over the past 1900 years, to be supplanted by the rational according to the traditions of men. The canon of scripture as it exists today is the product of a purge --- the shedding of the apocrypha from the Authorized Version is an example of this --- but in spite of the heralds of the falling away references to this knowledge persist in the canon to this day. Here is one such reference which hints at the truth: Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6:10-12) Many believers, when asked to explain what a principality is, have no clue. Some who are familiar with the book of Daniel might remember the prince of the Kingdom of Persia who delayed the angel sent to Daniel for 21 days; the intervention of Michael, referred to as the prince of Daniel's people, was required for the angel to reach Daniel. This illustrates the might and stature of the principality.... this being is capable of overpowering an angel of God. Only an angel of similar stature --- Michael is demonstrated elsewhere in the scriptures as the mightiest of our Lord's angels --- can prevail against them. These are who we war against! Edited October 6, 2020 by Marathoner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted October 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,083 Content Per Day: 9.75 Reputation: 13,564 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2020 I am re reading a book now I read a few years ago. That's what happens when you get old. No need to buy new books.. Just wait a few years and you'll forget all of it. Since I'm not 100% sure about everything I'm reading ( he gives lots of scriptural references that I still need to read) and in addition, Ok I'll admit it. I forgot the title. I tend to read books without memorizing their titles. I won't bless you with that info right now but I promise I will return with said info if it helps in this discussion. The reason I raise the reference is because I DID remember what I read inside of the book. The subjects were well researched. Remember this is the second time The author raises many of the same ideas I have come to accept, that there is no solid foundation for any argument against " The son's of God going into the daughters of men" as a literal interpretation. Many have tried to either avoid the scripture altogether or make up some kind of a reason for why they were men and not angels. If you take that for what it is, it seems to contradict the assumption that angels seen as fallen angels or "demons" can only have a temporary presence. I had never seen it that way before, mainly because all of my investigations into "manifestations" are generally of the trickster type in the beginning of a demonic infestation. In the 20th century, there are plenty of these kinds of things which seem cute and induce curiosity in the very beginning but can potentially degenerate from there into some of the most unwanted occurrences you could imagine. These things will pinch you, push you down the stairs. take all of the heating out of a room, show themselves as shadows. Induce sleep paralysis ( in my opinion) and eventually possess if the person is not a Christian. This is apparently one of those "if you give them the slack they will take it." Do you see odd things in your house? I know lets call in a witch or medium with a ouji board ( did you ever wonder why they don't call the local preacher? or another strong christian to deal with it?) Surely someone from the good side could call for help. It's mostly always a medium or witch. To me this is similar to saying , "we want to put out a fire, we have some embers glowing here. How should we exterminate the flame? Maybe we should go buy some petrol?" From a christian perspective it goes against common spiritual sense....and probably why my house isn't "haunted". If they come to my house, I'm calling in the A team. .....So given that backdrop of experience however limited on my part, it seems a bit curious that these fallen "watchers" can be totally physical. Physical enough to get human females pregnant. This seems to fly in the face of the experiences most commonly seen and reported by the entities most commonly thought to be demons. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted October 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,134 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,859 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Starise said: .So given that backdrop of experience however limited on my part, it seems a bit curious that these fallen "watchers" can be totally physical. Physical enough to get human females pregnant. This seems to fly in the face of the experiences most commonly seen and reported by the entities most commonly thought to be demons. The watchers mated with women and created the giant species of things that I would not call human... but they did/do have spirits. God killed all the giants that were alive before the flood and it is the spirits of those beings that we call demons.... they do not have bodies and have to enter someone elses body to be active among us.. Angels on the other hand can have physical bodies and need not to possess something. We are told that we should be kind to strangers for we do not know if they are angels..... so one can't tell by looking at them... Demons usually interact with us after interning some living body. Be that human or animal but I believe they can speak to us mentally. However that just comes from some personal experiences from many years ago when I was researching them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted October 13, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,144 Content Per Day: 7.06 Reputation: 13,104 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2020 A distinction is made between those sons of God, the angels who left their first estate to take daughters of men as their wives, and those stars of heaven whom Satan gathered to himself and cast down to the earth. The former are called Watchers in the Book of Enoch --- those who are bound in everlasting chains awaiting judgment on the day of the Lord --- whilst the latter are revealed as principalities and powers of spiritual wickedness. The Watchers are no longer active on the earth but the same cannot be said of those princes who rallied to the evil one. A third of the stars of heaven is a great number indeed... more than we know of. The Watchers are the fathers of the depraved Nephilim whom the Lord destroyed in the flood and whom He sent Joshua and the nation of Israel against in the promised land, but the principalities weaken the nations according to the will of our accuser who is identified as the ruler of this world. The spirits of the Nephilim are demons (or devils), incapable of manifesting a physical body which is why they seek mortal vessels to inhabit. Like their fathers, the Nephilim are accursed by God so there is no mercy for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted October 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,083 Content Per Day: 9.75 Reputation: 13,564 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, other one said: The watchers mated with women and created the giant species of things that I would not call human... but they did/do have spirits. God killed all the giants that were alive before the flood and it is the spirits of those beings that we call demons.... they do not have bodies and have to enter someone elses body to be active among us.. Angels on the other hand can have physical bodies and need not to possess something. We are told that we should be kind to strangers for we do not know if they are angels..... so one can't tell by looking at them... Demons usually interact with us after interning some living body. Be that human or animal but I believe they can speak to us mentally. However that just comes from some personal experiences from many years ago when I was researching them. I certainly respect your opinion here. I as of now, do not hold a specific opinion on this until I have looked into it more. I think it's an interesting subject that could answer a lot of questions. While I do think there was some kind of hokey pokey between angelic beings and human women I have never seen any indication for where the souls of offspring go to or if they even had souls. I look at this similar to if we could create a human would it have a soul? Only if God allowed "it" to have one. Since these were in effect unholy creations I am not convinced they had souls in the same way we had souls. This would explain how they resorted to cannibalism and never had a second thought about it. All other creations were God ordained. Clearly these were not. Further thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted October 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,083 Content Per Day: 9.75 Reputation: 13,564 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Marathoner said: A distinction is made between those sons of God, the angels who left their first estate to take daughters of men as their wives, and those stars of heaven whom Satan gathered to himself and cast down to the earth. The former are called Watchers in the Book of Enoch --- those who are bound in everlasting chains awaiting judgment on the day of the Lord --- whilst the latter are revealed as principalities and powers of spiritual wickedness. The Watchers are no longer active on the earth but the same cannot be said of those princes who rallied to the evil one. A third of the stars of heaven is a great number indeed... more than we know of. The Watchers are the fathers of the depraved Nephilim whom the Lord destroyed in the flood and whom He sent Joshua and the nation of Israel against in the promised land, but the principalities weaken the nations according to the will of our accuser who is identified as the ruler of this world. The spirits of the Nephilim are demons (or devils), incapable of manifesting a physical body which is why they seek mortal vessels to inhabit. Like their fathers, the Nephilim are accursed by God so there is no mercy for them. Ah yes, Those held in Tartarus. I remember reading this and thinking how could they be active if they are held in the underworld? So far I see a theory based on an assumption that A. These beings had souls and B. Their souls are demons. I have heard this in other places ( more accurately read it) but I have never seen any substantiation for it. Not saying there isn't any, just I have never seen it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted October 13, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,144 Content Per Day: 7.06 Reputation: 13,104 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Starise said: Ah yes, Those held in Tartarus. I remember reading this and thinking how could they be active if they are held in the underworld? So far I see a theory based on an assumption that A. These beings had souls and B. Their souls are demons. I have heard this in other places ( more accurately read it) but I have never seen any substantiation for it. Not saying there isn't any, just I have never seen it. Indeed, the Watchers are imprisoned and so they are removed from this earth, prevented from interfering in the affairs of men and beasts. The evil spirits we are familiar with are not the Watchers nor are they the rulers of this present darkness (the principalities). The evil spirits incapable of manifesting in the flesh are the spirits of the Nephilim, the progeny of angels and human women referred to as giants and the mighty men of old. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted October 13, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,144 Content Per Day: 7.06 Reputation: 13,104 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2020 The following might help. Satan, who was the star of the morning, was once a prince among angels. This informs us of our accuser's stature: Michael, the mightiest of God's angels and the prince of Israel (reference the book of Daniel), subdued the wicked one. The Watchers, those angels who left their first estate and the fathers of the Nephilim, referred to in Genesis 6. The principalities and powers, that third of the stars of heaven whom Satan gathered to himself. The evil one cast them down to the earth to weaken the nations: refer to the 12th chapter of Revelation and also the 14th chapter of Isaiah. They are identified as the enemies we face in Ephesians 6. The spirits of the Nephilim who were slain, wandering the earth seeking mortal vessels to inhabit (possess). We know these as demons, devils, evil spirits, and unclean spirits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted October 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,083 Content Per Day: 9.75 Reputation: 13,564 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2020 Thanks Marathoner, I should clarify. Those whose souls I question are the demons and not the chained watchers. I am in line with the Watchers as referred to in the scriptures you gave. I think the name watcher is only mentioned once in the Bible but numerous times In Enoch. There are a few side thoughts I have on this. The watchers themselves who were at fault were put in chains. There may be others. To me this is a possibility. I need to go back and reference if it was ALL of the watchers. It might be possible it wasn't all of them who mated with humans. If that is the case, then this leaves open to speculation if some of them are "out and about" still. A full 3rd of the angelic host would be many many fallen angels. I understand the ideas behind where the demons come from. If there is no direct connection to scripture this would be an educated inference. Makes sense but is it true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted October 14, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,144 Content Per Day: 7.06 Reputation: 13,104 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 14, 2020 15 hours ago, Starise said: Thanks Marathoner, I should clarify. Those whose souls I question are the demons and not the chained watchers. I am in line with the Watchers as referred to in the scriptures you gave. I think the name watcher is only mentioned once in the Bible but numerous times In Enoch. There are a few side thoughts I have on this. The watchers themselves who were at fault were put in chains. There may be others. To me this is a possibility. I need to go back and reference if it was ALL of the watchers. It might be possible it wasn't all of them who mated with humans. If that is the case, then this leaves open to speculation if some of them are "out and about" still. A full 3rd of the angelic host would be many many fallen angels. I understand the ideas behind where the demons come from. If there is no direct connection to scripture this would be an educated inference. Makes sense but is it true? We know that angels are spiritual, capable of manifesting tangibly as the scriptures testify. As I have learned there are three "divisions" of angels: those who serve the Lord (our fellow servants), those who left their first estate in pursuit of lust (the Watchers), and those who rallied to the accuser (the principalities). There are references to each in the canon of scripture. As for the origin of demons/devils/evil spirits/unclean spirits, there is no clear reference in the canon of scripture. I shared a verse from the Gospel of Matthew which alludes to something more: "And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" (Matthew 8:29) God knows all things and nothing is hidden from His sight. Is it therefore important for us to know of their substance and from whence they came? No, because if it were then the Lord would make it known to all. These evil spirits are not the rulers of this present darkness which the apostle identifies in Ephesians 6. Notice the pattern: the Watchers are bound in everlasting chains awaiting judgment and so they're not identified as enemies we must face. On the contrary, we will judge them (we will judge angels). Our accuser is the ruler of this world and so we must resist the devil. Satan is an enemy we face daily. Satan has been judged (the ruler of this world has been judged). Those angels of the devil, the principalities which weaken the nations of men, are an enemy we must face. These have been judged with Satan (the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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