Is abortion a free-trip to heaven?

[CaptWalker]

7 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

In finding complete harmony with this teaching, I also believe that the Bible does not eternally torture souls of individuals forever in a place called "hell."

 if we are not justified freely by His grace ( Rom.3:23-24) then we fall short of the glory of God (will not find redemption) whether we are in the womb or 99 years old.

 

Well i do also agree that souls will not suffer eternal damnation, but that they are now in that holding place described in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. And after judgement day, those who have rejected Christ will be "blotted out" or basically annihilism. But am not sure that God can judge unborn babies over what they would or wouldn't have done, because sin requires action and is something you must actually commit. I personally feel that we are all the same age in heaven, and all in a mature state of being including those unborn babies. And they will be asked one time if they accept Christ, and that determines their fate. Or they may not even have to be asked but may just start praising the Lord as soon as they see HIM? And i know that is probably as controversial as what you said but just how i see it.

[Guest kingdombrat]

7 hours ago, enoob57 said:

2 Sam 12:22-23

22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
KJV

 

 

I found a couple of different versions that clarify this verse a bit more.

 

• Good News Translation w/ Apocrypha

   Chapter Parallel

  2 Samuel 12:23 (GNTA) But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Could I bring the child back to life? I will some day go to where he is, but he can never come back to me."

• GOD'S WORD Translation

   Chapter Parallel

  2 Samuel 12:23 (GW) But why should I fast now that he's dead? Can I bring him back? [Someday] I'll go to him, but he won't come back to me."

   

   

  These versions put the Child in Heaven (we can conclude to this knowing David went to Heaven) because these versions show David claiming one day [he] "himself" will go to where this child is currently at.

   

  If we take this verse at "face value," we can apply it to the aborted.

[Justin Adams]

Matt 19:14

14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

[Duck]

Psalm 51:5

 

[HAZARD]

7 hours ago, Duck said:

Psalm 51:5

 

  Psalm 51, 5, Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Yes, but newborn baby has not sinned until it reaches the age of reason. An aborted baby definitely has not sinned.   The age at which a child is considered capable of acting responsibly. Under Common Law, seven was the age of reason. Children under the age of seven were conclusively presumed incapable of committing a crime because they did not possess the reasoning ability to understand that their conduct violated the standards of acceptable community behavior.

[Duck]

3 hours ago, HAZARD said:

  Psalm 51, 5, Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Yes, but newborn baby has not sinned until it reaches the age of reason. An aborted baby definitely has not sinned.   The age at which a child is considered capable of acting responsibly. Under Common Law, seven was the age of reason. Children under the age of seven were conclusively presumed incapable of committing a crime because they did not possess the reasoning ability to understand that their conduct violated the standards of acceptable community behavior.

Common law?

[Guest kingdombrat]

I think it's safe to say we know that Joshua was a {righteous} man.   We know that God personally met him and even allowed Joshua to [fleece] God.   And we know that Joshua obeyed God and was an excellent example of God being the leader of God's people.

 

Here is what Joshua has to say about [young children] inheriting the "Promised Land."

 

 

39Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

 

notice this portion of this Verse:

which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil

 

Joshua was obeying God here.

If God explains that children have a period in life where they had no knowledge between good and evil, it's safe to resume God will look at aborted children the [same way]!

[Duck]

14 hours ago, Josheb said:

First, let me say the following is not intended in any way to be insenstivie to those hwo have either aborted a child or otherwise lost a child in utero or infancy.

 

Three concerns to consider: 

1) All stand condemned because they have not believed in the name of God's Son Jesus. This is clearly stated in John 3. No child is born knowing or believing in Jesus (as far as we can tell). 

2) Innocence is not the whole of the matter. Perfection, righteousness, and faithfulness are just as important if not more so that obedience to any law. All humans, including those in utero and freshly born bear the effects of one man's disobedience. 

3) Scripture pertains to the living and thinking and  it is largely silent on what happens to the never-born dead. We should at best be cautious when speculating where scripture is silent and definitely not hold our speculations out as a means of judging others' views. If God had wanted to tell us what He does with the never-born then He'd have told us. We may therefore largely consider the matter a red herring, a matter that serves only to distract or otherwise aovid the more germane issue: What do you believe regarding God and His resurrected Son? That is what we'll be asked. We won't be asked, "What happens to the aborted?" 

John 3:16-18
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life.  For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through him.  He who believes in him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Do we accept and believe God's word as written or not? It's tough to do so sometimes. The righteous live by faith and that faith includes or entails trusting God is just and/or grace-ous in all that He does whether we understand it or not. 

I had an abortion. It completely ruined my life. (Not to mention the child's)

well meaning Christians have told me that I will see my child again in heaven. That’s all very nice, but really??

Do murderers even go to heaven? Let alone the slain?

What of original sin?

its sad I know, but the truth hurts.

only The Lord knows

Edited December 29, 2020 by Duck

[Justin Adams]

2 hours ago, Duck said:

I had an abortion. It completely ruined my life. (Not to mention the child's)

well meaning Christians have told me that I will see my child again in heaven. That’s all very nice, but really??

Do murderers even go to heaven? Let alone the slain?

What of original sin?

its sad I know, but the truth hurts.

only The Lord knows

The so-called doctrine of original sin is not correct. Original guilt does not pass from father to son. Yes we inherit 'original death' and that is our legacy from Adam.

The truth is always THE TRUTH. The truth is that Yeshua died to set everything at rights. No sin is too great for His Sacrifice. We have to bow and accept that.

Yes, truth hurts our pride.

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Duck said:

I had an abortion. It completely ruined my life. (Not to mention the child's)

well meaning Christians have told me that I will see my child again in heaven. That’s all very nice, but really??

 

God has given restoration of life to us in Christ... we are made s/Spiritually alive and God's Word are daily bread. How this plays out is everything God said 'was, is, will be' as said... and we can reform our thinking to it and be healed...

Jer 1:5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
KJV
 

Ps 139:14-16

14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
KJV

2 Sam 12:21-23

21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.

22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
KJV

3 hours ago, Duck said:

Do murderers even go to heaven? Let alone the slain?

Matt 12:31-32

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
KJV

3 hours ago, Duck said:

What of original sin?

Rom 5:12-18

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
KJV

3 hours ago, Duck said:

its sad I know, but the truth hurts.

only The Lord knows

No the truth sets us free
 

John 8:31-32

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
KJV