Is abortion a free-trip to heaven?

[CaptWalker]

Well i have heard and believe it myself that all aborted babies are innocent and go to heaven, so this question is focused only on this assumption. So if this is true then what about all those babies that would have been born and lived a normal life but never accepted Christ...wouldn't they have been better off where they are at NOW?! And if so then could this actually be considered a positive aspect of abortion, or am i missing something? Such as what exactly happens to those unborn when they get to heaven, and if they are then in adult form and asked whether or not they accept or reject Christ as Savior before they are received into the Kingdom or sent to hell? It just seems kind of unfair that all those millions of aborted would get a free pass without having to go through the misery of life and make a choice to accept Christ as we do? The only other option would be that they ALL would have been saved anyway, but that would only make sense if you believed in pre-existance(which i do) and God chooses which pre-created souls will be born and which are aborted? And I am pretty sure about my own opinion but just curious about what others think, hoping to avoid the typical close-minded abortion rhetoric.

Edited September 16, 2020 by CaptWalker

[Figure of eighty]

Yep they get a free trip. They havent had the chance to live . God is merciful.

[Billiards Ball]

20 hours ago, CaptWalker said:

Well i have heard and believe it myself that all aborted babies are innocent and go to heaven, so this question is focused only on this assumption. So if this is true then what about all those babies that would have been born and lived a normal life but never accepted Christ...wouldn't they have been better off where they are at NOW?! And if so then could this actually be considered a positive aspect of abortion, or am i missing something? Such as what exactly happens to those unborn when they get to heaven, and if they are then in adult form and asked whether or not they accept or reject Christ as Savior before they are received into the Kingdom or sent to hell? It just seems kind of unfair that all those millions of aborted would get a free pass without having to go through the misery of life and make a choice to accept Christ as we do? The only other option would be that they ALL would have been saved anyway, but that would only make sense if you believed in pre-existance(which i do) and God chooses which pre-created souls will be born and which are aborted? And I am pretty sure about my own opinion but just curious about what others think, hoping to avoid the typical close-minded abortion rhetoric.

It seems more unfair to punish people for sins they would have thought of committing had they lived, rather than actually committing them. "You're going to Hell because you would have defied me and lived a life of meaningless pleasure, that you never felt," is not the God I love.

There's a parable addressing your idea--the workers who showed up last minute and didn't do much but got paid (Heaven).

[JohnR7]

21 hours ago, CaptWalker said:

wouldn't they have been better off where they are at NOW?!

They will never have the experience of living in a fallen world. I cut grass in a cemetery one summer. There was a small section where the children three and under are buried. It was sad to me that they died too young to really experience what life is all about.  God still writes the book of their life and in Heaven the angels help them to become the person God created them to be.

 

1 hour ago, Billiards Ball said:

It just seems kind of unfair that all those millions of aborted would get a free pass without having to go through the misery of life and make a choice to accept Christ as we do?

I am pretty sure most people are happy they were born and happy for the opportunity to live this life. You hear stories about little souls in Heaven that beg the father for the opportunity to come to the earth and play a part in the redemption story.  Either way we have to trust God that He knows what is best and He only wants the very best for us.  

 

21 hours ago, DDisconnect said:

we should still be trying to encourage repentance from those folks

Yes they need to be reconciled with their child if they want to go to Heaven. I have a daughter in Heaven from some sort of a miscarriage. I had a dream about her and the angels taking care of her. One of them was reading the book of her life that God writes (Psalm 139:16). So they help her to become the person God created her to be. Then when I go to Heaven we will get to know each other better. We can go places and do things and learn together. I think I had that dream now to prepare me for when I do go to Heaven. 

Jesus said: "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." (Luke 17:2) I do not know what "offend" means but it sounds like they are the ones that should be worried. 

[Jayne]

22 hours ago, CaptWalker said:

Well i have heard and believe it myself that all aborted babies are innocent and go to heaven, so this question is focused only on this assumption. So if this is true then what about all those babies that would have been born and lived a normal life but never accepted Christ...wouldn't they have been better off where they are at NOW?! And if so then could this actually be considered a positive aspect of abortion, or am i missing something? Such as what exactly happens to those unborn when they get to heaven, and if they are then in adult form and asked whether or not they accept or reject Christ as Savior before they are received into the Kingdom or sent to hell? It just seems kind of unfair that all those millions of aborted would get a free pass without having to go through the misery of life and make a choice to accept Christ as we do? The only other option would be that they ALL would have been saved anyway, but that would only make sense if you believed in pre-existance(which i do) and God chooses which pre-created souls will be born and which are aborted? And I am pretty sure about my own opinion but just curious about what others think, hoping to avoid the typical close-minded abortion rhetoric.

I don't know if you will consider what I have to say as "close-minded abortion rhetoric", but I do have a couple of points of disagreement with you.

#1]  I believe that aborted babies do go to heaven, but it is definitely not a "FREE" trip.  

• It cost Jesus Christ his life dying for the sin the mother/father/doctor committed of killing a baby in the first place.  A hideous and vile death compounded by the fact that Jesus had to "become" sin for us.  2 Corinthians 5:21
• It's going to cost some mothers/fathers/doctors an eternal punishment in hell.  Abortion does not send you to hell, but it is such a hard-hearted and evil thing that it can contribute to the hard-heartedness of a non-believer.  Just like any vile sin that gets into the heart of a person and hardens them towards God.  
• It grieves the Holy Spirit and therefore it grieves God and Jesus Christ.  I want no part of and cannot call anything "positive" that grieves the Divine.

 

#2] You said,  "It just seems kind of unfair that all those millions of aborted would get a free pass without having to go through the misery of life and make a choice to accept Christ as we do?"

• It's your option to consider life miserable or not.  I have a former friend - we only speak by FB now as she is moved away - who was once homeless, eating from dumpster, and abused by her husband who took her "off the streets" and promised her a better life but just took her from one hell hole to another.  And she is schizophrenic.  One day another friend of ours called her to check on her and offer some encouragement.  She said to my pitiful friend, "What are you doing?"  My pitiful friend said, "I'm writing down all the things I'm grateful for and I'm on the third page."
• I think it's a joyful thing and a privilege to accept Jesus Christ as Savior.  You should too.

 

I can't call any aspect of abortion "positive".  Not one.  The harm, chaos, sin, and evil is causes is not justified by the fact that the murdered unborn go to be with Christ.

[CaptWalker]

I too believe in those being pre-destined but only God's Elect, and the rest still have free will, so don't believe in the Calvinistic views on this. But I do agree that God chooses certain people to either be aborted or dying very young because of those souls being very special to Him. But i just can't see how all those aborted babies/souls were predestined for that fate, and so they still would have to accept Christs' atonement before they are allowed to enter the Kingdom. This is mainly because of Revelation-20:8-9, which happens AFTER the millennial reign of Christ when we are all in spiritual bodies, but all those "nations" still choose to rebel with Satan at that time. 

It just doesn't make sense to me that God would have created so many millions of "pre-saved" souls, which is basically what the angels are, so what's the point? But guess all we can do is speculate, and i know this is not one of those essential "tenets" of Christianity which you must believe a certain way, but it's still something i feel is important enough to be brought into any discussion about abortion, even though most people just don't give it much thought, so be it. But i do agree abortion is wrong regardless.

Edited September 17, 2020 by CaptWalker

[Marathoner]

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)

There is no such thing as a "free trip to heaven," my friend. Even the elect who stand before the Lord and His host are called upon to suffer as Christ Jesus suffered, loving not their lives to the death. Like Agur the son of Jakeh wrote in the 30th Proverb we receive neither wealth nor poverty: only that according to our need. This is so we won't be full, denying God saying "Who is the Lord?;" nor will our need be so great that we steal and thus profane the name of God thereby.

We are assured that each life, no matter how small or brief, is precious to the Lord who creates us all. Abortion is an unspeakable act of evil, @CaptWalker, for to us there is nothing to be profited by murder. The blood of the innocent cries out to the Lord just as the blood of Abel cried out to Him from the ground (Genesis 4:10). Remember the words of the scripture, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay" (Deut. 32:35, Romans 12:19). 

The day is coming when the Lord will judge the wicked for the wicked deeds they wickedly committed under the sun. But the Lord is merciful and long-suffering, a truth which the Law testifies of, so what of those whose lives were ended before they were born from the womb? Has the Lord forgotten the innocent?

No. By no means have they been provided with a "free trip" to heaven. There is always a price to pay even if the cost turns out to be suffering.  

 

[HAZARD]

The Bible makes it clear that people are condemned to hell on the basis of their sins8 and their rejection of Jesus Christ as the remedy for their sinful condition. However, infants and young children are incapable of fully understanding either their spiritual condition or God's requirements for salvation. 

Can God judge them even though they don't understand the basis of that judgment? THE BIBLE DOES INDICATE THAT CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT, for example, when describing how some of the Israelites in the Valley of Benhinnom had become corrupt so as to sacrifice their own (innocent) children:
Jer. 19:4-5, V 4, Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the BLOOD OF THE INNOCENTS; 

5, They have built also the high places of Baal, TO BURN THEIR SONS WITH FIRE for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind: 

2 Kings 17: 17, And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger. 

Psalms 106:37-38, V 37, Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, 

38, AND SHED INNOCENT BLOOD, EVEN THE BLOOD OF THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.

GOD SAYS CHILDREN BELONG TO HIM,

Ezek. 16:20-21, V. 20, Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be0 devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, 
21, THAT THOU HAST SLAIN MY CHILDREN, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them? 
JESUS SAID THAT PEOPLE WHO ENTER HEAVEN ARE LIKE CHILDREN, IMPLYING THAT CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN. 

Matthew 18:2-3, V. 2, And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 

3, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Matthew 19:13-14, V. 13, Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. 

14, But Jesus said, SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILDREN, and forbid them not, to come unto me: FOR OF SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

[Faithwilldo]

On 9/16/2020 at 10:38 AM, CaptWalker said:

Well i have heard and believe it myself that all aborted babies are innocent and go to heaven, so this question is focused only on this assumption. So if this is true then what about all those babies that would have been born and lived a normal life but never accepted Christ...wouldn't they have been better off where they are at NOW?! And if so then could this actually be considered a positive aspect of abortion, or am i missing something? Such as what exactly happens to those unborn when they get to heaven, and if they are then in adult form and asked whether or not they accept or reject Christ as Savior before they are received into the Kingdom or sent to hell? It just seems kind of unfair that all those millions of aborted would get a free pass without having to go through the misery of life and make a choice to accept Christ as we do? The only other option would be that they ALL would have been saved anyway, but that would only make sense if you believed in pre-existance(which i do) and God chooses which pre-created souls will be born and which are aborted? And I am pretty sure about my own opinion but just curious about what others think, hoping to avoid the typical close-minded abortion rhetoric.

All but God's Elect are cast into the Lake of Fire.  This is why:

Rom 5:14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

The death that is being spoken of in the verse above is not just speaking of a physical death but also a spiritual death.   Spiritual death is not having a relationship with the Father and the only way this can be restored is by following the pathway to salvation that Christ will cause us all to follow.

Christ is presently only saving those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world.  They are the Elect/Chosen/Saints/Overcomers/First Fruits.  Christ is not saving anyone else during this age.  

Let me explain:

The "Lake of Fire" is a spiritual term and represents the judgment of Christ.  There is no literal hell as is commonly taught.  All who are cast into Christ's judgment (Lake of Fire) will be judged based upon their sins.  For aborted babies who have not sinned, they will still need to be saved because death was passed down to them from Adam.  Salvation is "life" which is having our relationship with the Father restored and being made into the image of God who never sins.   

Everyone cast into Christ's judgment will travel the same pathway that leads to salvation which the Elect's just traveled. 

This is the end result of Christ's work within each of them:

1 Tim 2:3-6  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;  Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1 Cor 15:20-28  But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.  For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.  Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Christ truly is the Savior of the world.

1John 4:14   And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Joe    

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Faithwilldo

[CaptWalker]

Alrighty then...