Child abuse...where is God's will in this?

[DeighAnn]

15 hours ago, Diaste said:

I do not think rapists and murderers should be put to death by the hand of man.

Though I would love to agree with you and all you said, I just can't. 
The only hope would be because of following the "governing authority" but even they have capitol punishment.  So, not only God but also the government, so who am I to have "an opinion"? 

I am to follow Gods Laws. (NOT FOR SALVATION OR FOR WORKING FOR SALVATION AS IT IS A GIFT GIVEN BEFORE ANY WORK IS DONE SO.... just a pre Please don't go there for those who might)   So where I live, it doesn't change, therefore I HAVE NO CHOICE, but to stand for Gods Word.  
 
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad.


I believe 

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


So that is what I follow and put forth.  

You know why there is so much rape and murder happening today?  Because Christians DON'T FOLLOW GODS LAWS,  They actually fight AGAINST them.  And so here we are.  

Another perusal through the first 5 Books, might be in order, I am due, I am one who believes that Jesus did not change the laws of God.  Sure, got rid of the rituals and of what was against us, etc.  but Jesus said nothing passed from the Law and how many different places are we told that they are to be sent to God? 

“Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.
 
“If anyone kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the evidence of witnesses. But no person shall be put to death on the testimony of one witness. Moreover, you shall accept no ransom for the life of a murderer, who is guilty of death, but he shall be put to death.



If WE DID did continue to follow them then, 

12  Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers: 13  And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee. 14  Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle. 15  And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee. 16  And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: neither shalt thou serve their gods; for that will be a snare unto thee.


But "mans wisdom" convinces us to NOT do what God tells us to do.  God isn't wishy washy on this subject.  

1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers. 2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. 3And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that He might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live. 



And as for one point you made on

The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” ...

DO YOU see the problem? 

THE WOMAN "caught in adultery". 

NOTICE who is missing from being brought before HIM?   THE MAN who she was caught with, they let him go?    

And WHO brought the woman?  For what purpose?  Who of them was without sin??



I have been on your side.  I liked it.   I studied more and now I can not.  

We must just disagree for now.  I doesn't feel good about it,  but it is what I believe and will until....IDK but I don't think it'll change, I seeked it out for quite a while. 

I do not believe we are to take vengeance into our own hands by any means. 
I will say that forgiveness is a gift we give to ourselves too!!  It is so much easier to talk with the Lord when you have done that for your own spirit of peace.  But to be made to feel bad until then, well....

I am going to stop.  I have gone as far as I think I should for now.  

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by DeighAnn
So don't have to go into OSAS

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

Good thing no one here did that. 

But it's the gist of the position, isn't it?

God didn't stop it. God didn't specifically will against it. Ergo, it's God's will that evil acts occur.

It smacks of theodicy in my mind in that God permits evils. I'm afraid this is false as mankind is the cause of the evils. Mankind's acts led to a fallen world. God cursed our existence because of man's rebellion. 

But people rarely take personal responsibility for their acts and never do they believe punishment is just and correct. 

One could assume that since God levied the curse on the earth and it's inhabitants that it is ultimately God's doing. Mankind made the mistake and reaped the promise fulfilled. 

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

“If anyone kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the evidence of witnesses. But no person shall be put to death on the testimony of one witness. Moreover, you shall accept no ransom for the life of a murderer, who is guilty of death, but he shall be put to death.

This is the sticking point for the idea you have. Let's say I agree with you this is how we should approach the problem.

When do we find eyewitness testimony of two people to the crime of murder or rape? We have one witness in the case of rape but rarely in the case of murder. We have in the courts of law posturing and circumstance, rationalization and what passes for logic, expert testimony and hidden 'evidence', feelings and ideas and, the need for convictions to prove 'we did something'.

By the Law of God we would need two eyewitnesses or no murderer or rapist can be put to death. This alone negates the death penalty in nearly every case. We can be certain the murderer probably did the deed and the murderer or rapist should be punished but they cannot be put to death except by eyewitness testimony of at least two people.

[Alive]

Amen--and this bears repeating. This Truth and learning to trust in it is at the core of understanding and healing in any context. This Truth can be and ought to become an anchor and starting point for addressing all of life's events in our earthly sojourn.

The absolute contained here is profound. Something we can 'know' as God within us shines a light.

Know where is it stated that our time here will be easy--in fact, the opposite is true.

But we have an irrefutable promise from and of our God and Savior. Park your bus here for the duration.

Rom. 8:28   And we know that ¹God causes ^aall things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are ^bcalled according to His purpose. ²⁹ For those whom He ^aforeknew, He also ^bpredestined to become ^cconformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the ^dfirstborn among many brethren; ³⁰ and these whom He ^apredestined, He also ^bcalled; and these whom He called, He also ^cjustified; and these whom He justified, He also ^dglorified.

[Alive]

Amen! Praise the Lord!

[Starise]

Evil of all kinds is rampant on the earth.

God did not create evil. God does not endorse evil. 

God eventually deals with evil.

The catch is eventually for some people. They want now. 

Some people will understand no less than an instantaneous blow to the wicked.

Thought- The Beatitudes all have the phrase "blessed are those who" for they will

receive.

"Will receive" means God sees those who suffer and He sees their plights. He is promising to give to them at a later time. This is a message of future comfort to believers. God knows we live in the now. He wants to comfort us that better days are ahead!

I don't think many can or will rationalize that terrible things happen. If a parent wanted to throw their child in the fire as a sacrifice to Molech, there weren't angels present to deliver the child. If a parent gets an abortion...same thing. It's a cruel cruel world.

Make no mistake, just as there are the beatitudes there will be the opposite for those who do these things unless they repent of it and stop. Even then, there are still repercussions. Call them the Cursitudes.

Cursed are the abusers for they will see their day in hell. Make no mistake. What goes around comes around. Big ships with small rudders take awhile to turn but they DO turn.

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Starise
spelling

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

This is the sticking point for the idea you have. Let's say I agree with you this is how we should approach the problem.

When do we find eyewitness testimony of two people to the crime of murder or rape? We have one witness in the case of rape but rarely in the case of murder. We have in the courts of law posturing and circumstance, rationalization and what passes for logic, expert testimony and hidden 'evidence', feelings and ideas and, the need for convictions to prove 'we did something'.

By the Law of God we would need two eyewitnesses or no murderer or rapist can be put to death. This alone negates the death penalty in nearly every case. We can be certain the murderer probably did the deed and the murderer or rapist should be punished but they cannot be put to death except by eyewitness testimony of at least two people.

How many more would come forward today if we had been following Gods laws all this time?  So the question is how did we get to the point that we are.  And is not DNA a witness?   Which leads us down another debate of what is meant by witness and on and on it goes.   Please let us not do this.  It only gets ugly and in the end it is ONLY in deep prayer and contemplation of His words that our answers like them or not, are found.   I am not to judge Gods servants. 

 The choices.   We can follow HIS direct language in which He states stuff loud and clear or we can jump on the more "vague" statements to try and change what is written to something more comfortable for us to read and live with.  It really is that simple.   This subject is not different than Pre trib or OSAS or eat pig, and any of the rest of them.  Please don't think for a second I am without sin.  I have my own issues too and sometimes even still, the Blood of Christ has barely finished washing me clean when some evil thought throws me back into the mud before I can even speak with God.   

The last thing I need are my own feelings clouding up the clear water of the Word.
So to avoid a long earthly debate about it, in which we would just go round in circles, my point

God says "this is the way I want it done".  I say "God knows more than me so what I FEEL about it doesn't matter, I will find out about the WISDOM of His laws when He deems me to know that wisdom"  

UNTIL then,  WHENEVER the subject comes up no matter how I feel, I FOLLOW Gods commands.  I do not speak against them/HIM.  If I see someone saying "the death penalty IS AGAINST GOD" I correct that with scripture they can take or leave it.  

No "sticking" points, just the words of God.  I am smart enough to have figured out that I know basically NOTHING and what I THINK I know is probably flawed in itself.   As such, I try to follow the words of the wisest, as closely as I can.    



 

[DeighAnn]

42 minutes ago, Starise said:

Evil of all kinds is rampant on the earth.

God did not create evil. God does not endorse evil. 

God eventually deals with evil.

The catch is eventually for some people. They want now. 

Some people will understand no less than an instantaneous blow to the wicked.

Thought- The Beatitudes all have the phrase "blessed are those who" for they will

receive.

"Will receive" means God sees those who suffer and He sees their plights. He is promising to give to them at a later time. This is a message of future comfort to believers. God knows we live in the now. He wants to comfort us that better days are ahead!

I don't think many can or will rationalize that terrible things happen. If a parent wanted to throw their child in the fire as a sacrifice to Molech, there weren't angels present to deliver the child. If a parent gets an abortion...same thing. It's a cruel cruel world.

Make no mistake, just as there are the beatitudes there will be the opposite for those who do these things unless they repent of it and stop. Even then, there are still repercussions. Call them the Cursitudes.

Cursed are the abusers for they will see their day in hell. Make no mistake. What goes around comes around. Big ships with small rudders take awhile to turn but they DO turn.

 

God is going to recompense. That's good and bad.  Can you even imagine how much better it is to have a recompense from God than anything on this earth!!!  Sorry, reading what you wrote just brought joy flooding into my spirit. 

If that doesn't give us the strength to go though anything this world has to give, I don't know what would.  THIS FLESH LIFE is but a second long.  BUT some big decisions are being made by us in this FREE WILL state that have long term effects.  Any way, thanks.  And nice to read you.  

[FrankIeCip]

Not to burst any bubbles but we read in Isaiah 45  

7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

And Proverbs 16

4The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
 

The Word of God is truth regardless if we like it or not. I’m sorry to post this but only the Truth will set you free. ??

[FrankIeCip]

Job 2 9Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. 10But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.