Why does Jesus ask this of us 'The Church'

[enoob57]

7 minutes ago, Alive said:

Hard to be clear what you just wrote above---if I get your drift, you are saying that the scriptures are correct? Yes of course.

I meant by this
2 Tim 3:15-17

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
The written Word/Scripture is the sole apparatus that God uses to perfect His Sons... 
 

[Walter and Deborah]

On 12/11/2020 at 8:01 PM, enoob57 said:

Luke 18:8

8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
KJV
 

Amen! the wright kind of faith is so important to trust in:

Proverbs 3:5-6 5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Walter and Deborah
More info.

[Alive]

45 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

I meant by this
2 Tim 3:15-17

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
The written Word/Scripture is the sole apparatus that God uses to perfect His Sons... 
 

I understand that this is the way you believe, as we have discussed this before...I get it.

Having said that, those scriptures simply do not say what your last sentence in the above post of yours claims. They are really clear on what they do say, but they don't say anything about the written word being the sole anything. Do you have a scripture that does?

[enoob57]

10 minutes ago, Josheb said:

They listened but did not understand. Why did they not understand? According to scripture it was because they had hard hearts that were hardened. There are scores of verses to be brought to bear on this ranging from Isaiah 6:9 to Rom. 1:18ff to Rom. 6:8 to  1 Cor. 2:14, but the plan and simple fact is this: there isn't a single place in the entirety of scripture were the scripture anywhere state the hearing or not hearing is due to either the physics of sound, the function of the sinner's mind, or the efficacy of the sinner's will but there are piles and piles of scripture attributing soteriological change to God and God alone. 

I don't buy into calvinism it is error you believe is fact and it oozes out of every post you post.... I agree with Dr Flowers I am a provisionist...
SOTERIOLOGY 101 – A Professor and former 5-Point Calvinist Discussing the Doctrines of Salvation, Election, Predestination, and God's Amazing Grace.

[enoob57]

6 minutes ago, Alive said:

I understand that this is the way you believe, as we have discussed this before...I get it.

Having said that, those scriptures simply do not say what your last sentence in the above post of yours claims. They are really clear on what they do say, but they don't say anything about the written word being the sole anything. Do you have a scripture that does?

That is exactly what 2Tim 3:16-17 are saying in this manner

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

For the life here an now v17 says that... or perhaps you can explain what else is needed past the promise of v17?

 

[enoob57]

39 minutes ago, Josheb said:

No, that is not at all what I am saying. Which makes your post ironic given the context of the prior conversation.  

What I am saying is this: Romans 10:17 cannot be used as it was first used in this discussion. It was an abuse of scripture to do so. It was an abuse of scripture to single out one verse and remove it from its stated context. It was an abuse of scripture because the text does not say "logos" as was mistakenly believed; the text says rhema. It was an abuse of scripture because text is about Israel's hearing, not the atheist's hearing. It cannot be overgeneralized to apply to people who do not know and have never heard from God because that is not who or what Paul is writing about. In other words, the citing of Romans 10:17 to imply anyone can hear the logos and believe was an abuse of the verse in many ways, not just one single way. There's no defense for that. 

The facts in evidence are not up for dispute. There's two options here: That individual who made the mistake can 1) stop abusing scripture and learn to use it correctly, or 2) deny the abuse so everyone knows where s/he's really at. 

But my writing so plainly is gonna lead to my being attacked and complaints to the mods when nothing I've said is incorrect. Neither is it personal. No one should be abusing scripture. Every Christian who does so should be willing to correct the error and make a conscious effort not to repeat the mistake. 

That is what I am saying. 

That is what Jesus asks of the Church. 

 

This should have been a very simple matter to resolve. The moment Alive asked the other poster to look at the word used for "word" there should have been an aha moment. Not five, six, or more posts worth of explanation and digression.

But that is what discussion forums are about, yes? 

The conversation has come to the point where the facts of Romans 10:17 are now established. We can move one with an acceptance of the facts and truth, move on without the established facts and the truth they bring, or not move on at all. 

We'll see what happens .

this is your opinion -now there's three and as you digress from scholarly presented material without regard only to further press your opinion... and it is not thus sayeth The Lord as you so fervently press... we have The Word of God before us and that is Thus Sayeth The Lord... however thanks for your opinion I just reject and side with The Scripture in my opinion  

[Alive]

3 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

That is exactly what 2Tim 3:16-17 are saying in this manner

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

For the life here an now v17 says that... or perhaps you can explain what else is needed past the promise of v17?

 

 

My words were clear. I did not say something else was needed. I did say that those verses don't state that they are the 'sole' means that God uses. There is a difference.

To be clear--whatever else the Lord uses will never contradict scripture. Never--when rightly understood.

THe Lord speaks to His sons and brethren--he communicates with us. He very much wants to do so. To have an 'intimate' relationship. Communication both one on one and from one member to another, but it is always Christ. Everything that is vital for the believer starts and ends with Christ.

[enoob57]

7 minutes ago, Alive said:

verses don't state that they are the 'sole' means that God uses.

Scripture is the sole subject and the promise of v17 is predicated upon that subject...

[JohnD]

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

2 Peter 1:20-21

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
KJV
I see this as The Holy Spirit guiding the written Word to be written... is that what you mean?

The INTERPRETATION of it first and foremost.

[enoob57]

11 minutes ago, JohnD said:

The INTERPRETATION of it first and foremost.

I read this as specific to the formation of Scriptures were inspired by The Holy Spirit or are you applying to todays learning of? This work here seems very sound: