David1701 Posted January 12, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: The issues raised in this post need to be discussed. There are a lot fundamental errors, the first one and this is a huge one, and it is not singling out you, as your comments in this issue at hand is echoed by a following for that reason one may find a lot of sympathisers who hold to the same view and as leaders in various groups have cemented their error by prosecuting those who do not give them blind royalty in this matter. I had consider to post scriptures that proves the elledge error. But I thought that it is perhaps another way to follow. You made comments about Abraham without giving the grounds that guided you to make those comments. Please supply the grounds that support your position about Abraham. In asking this I keep in mind that you may come across the scriptures that shed light in this matter, and cause you to revisit your comments. Your comments in this matter: "There have always been good people on the earth during the Old Testament, including Abraham. If Abraham were not good according to God's criterion as you say, then after his death he would also have been under torment in Hades, with the rich man! But now Abraham was in the safe presence of the good God, in the place where Lazarus was also carried." ????? Wow, just wow! So you think that people are saved because they are good??? Have you never heard of salvation by GRACE (unmerited favour), through faith? Christ came to this Earth to save sinners. If there were people who were good, in God's eyes, then they would not need to be saved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frits Posted January 12, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 409 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/03/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/25/1961 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: If Abraham were not good according to God's criterion as you say, then after his death he would also have been under torment in Hades, with the rich man! But now Abraham was in the safe presence of the good God, in the place where Lazarus was also carried." Hi Ycf, In Luke 16:24, the rich man in Hades asks Abraham to send Lazarus and bring him water to cool his tongue. This water obviously does not indicate H2O, but symbolizes the water of life to which Abraham and Lazarus had access. This comes from the fountain of the water of life, and is given by God. (Rev.21:6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 12, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Frits said: Hi Ycf, In Luke 16:24, the rich man in Hades asks Abraham to send Lazarus and bring him water to cool his tongue. This water obviously does not indicate H2O, but symbolizes the water of life to which Abraham and Lazarus had access. This comes from the fountain of the water of life, and is given by God. (Rev.21:6) Interesting opinion - do you have any actual evidence for that? I thought not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frits Posted January 12, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 409 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/03/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/25/1961 Share Posted January 12, 2021 57 minutes ago, David1701 said: Wow, just wow! So you think that people are saved because they are good??? Have you never heard of salvation by GRACE (unmerited favour), through faith? Christ came to this Earth to save sinners. If there were people who were good, in God's eyes, then they would not need to be saved. David, Yes I believe that people who are good, are saved by God. And that certainly includes Abel, Enoch, Abraham, Elijah and Moses. But also the apostles, and also the thousands after Pentecost, and also all the millions of people who later in history converted to the Lord Jesus and accepted Him as God and Savior, are included. That's why I too am saved. Hallelujah, praise the Lord Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frits Posted January 12, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 409 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/03/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/25/1961 Share Posted January 12, 2021 29 minutes ago, David1701 said: Interesting opinion - do you have any actual evidence for that? I thought not. Yes, the two texts I gave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted January 12, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,878 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,770 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Frits said: Hi Ycf, In Luke 16:24, the rich man in Hades asks Abraham to send Lazarus and bring him water to cool his tongue. This water obviously does not indicate H2O, but symbolizes the water of life to which Abraham and Lazarus had access. This comes from the fountain of the water of life, and is given by God. (Rev.21:6) Genesis 15:13,14,15 13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. "15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age." study this one. King's David testimony the seed of Abraham, who was gathered to Abraham after his death. His testimony where he was together with Abraham and his seed after him, waiting for the Christ of God to come to them after his death. He called that place, Sheol or "the Bossom of Abraham " or "the Paradise of Abraham ", that's where Jesus Christ told the "the forgiven thief on the Cross", he is going to meet him. Jesus said, I will descend in the heart of the earth" But not before I go first to the "Bossom of Abraham ". I have scripture reference in a little while. *****NIV Psalm 16:10 10. because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful o see decay. NKJV Psalm16:10 10 For You will not leave my soul in [e]Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to [f]see corruption. Edited January 12, 2021 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frits Posted January 12, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 409 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/03/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/25/1961 Share Posted January 12, 2021 25 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: Genesis 15:13,14,15 13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. "15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age." study this one. King's David testimony the seed of Abraham, who was gathered to Abraham after his death. His testimony where he was together with Abraham and his seed after him, waiting for the Christ of God to come to them after his death. He called that place, Sheol or "the Bossom of Abraham " or "the Paradise of Abraham ", that's where Jesus Christ told the "the forgiven thief on the Cross", he is going to meet him. Jesus said, I will descend in the heart of the earth" But not before I go first to the "Bossom of Abraham ". I have scripture reference in a little while. Thanks, let's look at Scripture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 12, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Frits said: David, Yes I believe that people who are good, are saved by God. And that certainly includes Abel, Enoch, Abraham, Elijah and Moses. But also the apostles, and also the thousands after Pentecost, and also all the millions of people who later in history converted to the Lord Jesus and accepted Him as God and Savior, are included. That's why I too am saved. Hallelujah, praise the Lord Jesus! So, out of your own mouth, you admit that you think that you are saved because you are good. Do you not realise that this is an entirely anti-Christian teaching? You are giving the glory for your salvation to yourself, instead of to the Lord. 1 Cor. 1:25-31 (EMTV) 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For you see your calling, brothers, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many powerful, not many noble, are called. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world in order that He might humiliate the wise, and God chose the weak things of the world in order that He might humiliate the mighty. 28 And the lowly things of the world, and the despised things God has chosen, and the things which are not, in order that He might nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But from Him you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption; 31 that, as it is written, "HE THAT BOASTS, LET HIM BOAST IN THE LORD." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 12, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Frits said: Yes, the two texts I gave. Please explain how those texts are supposed to be evidence for your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted January 12, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,878 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,770 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Frits said: Thanks, let's look at Scripture. 5 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: Genesis 15:13,14,15 13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. "15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age." study this one. King's David testimony the seed of Abraham, who was gathered to Abraham after his death. His testimony where he was together with Abraham and his seed after him, waiting for the Christ of God to come to them after his death. He called that place, Sheol or "the Bossom of Abraham " or "the Paradise of Abraham ", that's where Jesus Christ told the "the forgiven thief on the Cross", he is going to meet him. Jesus said, I will descend in the heart of the earth" But not before I go first to the "Bossom of Abraham ". I have scripture reference in a little while. *****NIV Psalm 16:10 10. because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful o see decay. NKJV Psalm16:10 10 For You will not leave my soul in [e]Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to [f]see corruption. This is how it was till the death of Jesus Christ . Abraham and his descendants in righteousness were waiting for the coming of the Life Giver Jesus Christ and they knew that he will come to them right after his death, to take them out from there to be together with him in his Heavenly Inheritance. Edited January 13, 2021 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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