The Bible - Man's Instruction Manual

[Bro.Tan]

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I think what may be being missed it the WHEN the rebellious house BROUGHT THESE things in.  YES, this is a future event to us BUT  it is the future SPEAKING ON THE PAST.

Right, but that's what Peter was saying in Acts 15: But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

At that time a lot Pharisees didn't believe, and still had power over the people. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, Bro.Tan said:

Right, but that's what Peter was saying in Acts 15: But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

At that time a lot Pharisees didn't believe, and still had power over the people. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, the heavy yoke that had been lifted by the Lord, the Pharisees wanted to KEEP on those who didn't believe and wanted to PUT ON THOSE coming in faith, AS IF UNDER the law.  AS the spilling of the Blood of Christ was the last blood to EVER be shed,  circumcision was no longer required under the New Covenant.  Yeah, old school didn't like that.  They didn't like that the 'temple' was no longer the only place to find God.  They didn't like that 'sins' weren't being confessed to them any more.  Information is power.  Christ took all that from them.  They weren't even 'special anymore' as Salvation was opened to everyone.  What had once been considered 'unclean' was now equal to 'clean'.  All that work they had done for all those years to keep the people under control taking the WORDs or the letter and adding on new stuff that God never commanded had made the people of God not like being Gods people.  Sorry I start going off on tangents

[Bro.Tan]

21 hours ago, Josheb said:

Great. Given that the Bible is man's instruction manual but is about Jesus and not man..... What is the difference between the incarnate word of God and the written word of God? 

 

After answering that specific question..... What are the differences between the written word, the incarnate word, the revealed word, and the illuminated word.... given that all are in some way Christ? 

 

According to the Bible, it's all about Jesus to us as mankind.  Paul says in  Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

But Jesus came and his mission was to recover man from his sin, so the job was all about man. Now, There was a time when Jesus thought about his cup being remove so he prayed to the Father in  Matthew 26:39  And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. 42  He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

So in a nutshell, it's all about the Father, his will, and his name is also Jesus. That a lesson for another time.

Jesus said the… Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. (Matthew 5:5). Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God" (Mark 1:14). This is the gospel of Jesus. 

It's alway important to use scriptures and verses, when dealing with the word of God. I encourage people to read their Bible from Genesis to Revelation, both books.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

22 hours ago, Josheb said:

Wonderful. 

Given the truth the Bible is first and foremost about Jesus and not humans how then might you amend the opening post to reflect that reality? Got another question for you but I'll ask it in a separate post.

I ask because it is very common for Christians to think the Bible is about us and take a human-centric view and not a Theocentric view. In doing so an idol is created. This is paradoxical; how can the Word of God be an idol? The answer lies in the fact the ability of sinful humans to corrupt anything and everything has no bounds. In Jesus' day God's word had been perverted to an instruction manual that alternatively led to legalism or hypocrisy (or both) and not to God. This, in turn, led to comparative living, or the notion "I'm a servant of God!" but which the heart really means, "I'm a better servant than you are," thereby reflecting one of the core estrangements. 

• Estranged from God
• Estranged from self
• Estranged from others
• Estranged from the creation we once ruled over

Every single one of these estrangements has been addressed on Calvary and our liberty, power, and ability to connect has been provided through regeneration and Pentecost. But that does not happen if the Bible is considered only man's instruction manual. I have an instruction manual to my Ford F-150 pick-up truck. I have an instruction manual to my iRobot Roomba and read it last night while I took the vacuum cleaner apart to repair it. The HVAC contractor sent a man out last week to do the yearly warranty inspection a month after replacing the motherboard of my very expensive AC unit. 

The Bible is much more than an instruction manual. 

And even though it is an instruction manual for humans it is not about us. 

 

So, in light of that truth, how might the opening post be amended to more thoroughly reflect that truth?  

 

 

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The Bible is our way in the Kingdom of God, the Lord had this book written so we will learn of him. In the scriptures its written in Joshua 1:8   This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.  This is our instruction manual. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" 

Please read it so that you can become a vessel of Honor in the house of the Lord. Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.” (Ecclesiastes 12:10, & 13-14) "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

No, Jesus is our way to God. Jesus and Jesus alone is the single, singular, sole way to God. No one comes to God but by Jesus. This is plainly stated in John 14:6, 

John 14:6
"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me.'"
 

Yes, based on the contents of these posts I think it would be very good for you to study God's word , learning to rightly divide it. 

Is it being suggested I have not read the Bible?
Is it being suggested I am not already a "vessel of honor"? 
Is it being suggested I do not keep his commandments? 

You are aware that the 2 Timothy 2 text does not say reading/studying the Bible is not what makes us clean, yes? 

 

Assuming the answers to the first three questions are, "No," I will ask you to go back and edit your post so it does not insinuate lack on my part or provide a false witness on yours. 
 

You are looking for conflict. why? I never said Jesus was not the way., I never said anything against John 14:6. I agree with all that. The Bible says in John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.        

Which mean I can preach Jesus in the Old Testament, if I follow this instruction. New Testament Christians will miss all that Bible written about Jesus in the Old Testament. I like to fellowship using scriptures and verses throughout the BIble as you see me do.  

 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

5 hours ago, Josheb said:

Why did God save? Why did He save anyone?

If you can be so kind and post the scriptures and verses to your question. That is the proper way to fellowship. 

[Bro.Tan]

17 hours ago, Josheb said:

If we have agreement then how is it I am accused of wanting conflict? 

 

Think, Bro.  

 

Don't be assuming conflict where none exists.

My apologies if miss I understood something you said. 

[Bro.Tan]

17 hours ago, Josheb said:

No, I am asking you that question. I expect you to post the scriptures. This op claims "The Bible is man's instruction manual," even though the Bible is first and foremost about God and Jesus, not man. On these points we have agreement. I have not in any way shape or form disagreed yet I was falsely accused of wanting conflict. 

The reason this question is important is because the Bible is first and foremost about God, not man. 

As the posts have unfolded two mistakes of omission have been committed. The first was neglecting the fact the Bible is about God, not man. The second neglect occurred because it was said the Bible is our way to the kingdom of God but that is not wholly correct because Jesus is the way, the only way to God and His kingdom. It is quite possible to be saved and enter God's kingdom without ever having heard of the Bible, much less having ever read it...... but it not possible to see God, or be saved, or enter His kingdom apart from Christ. It was a HUGE error to leave that out! I was not in any way trying to star any conflict and it would have been very, very, very, very, very, very, easy for you to say, "Yes, of course, I completely, whole heartedly and 100% agree, Josh. Thank you for pointing that out. Thank you for adding that to the conversation because that is very important."

But that's not the response I received, was it? 

 

The Bible is first and foremost about God and His Son and not first or foremost or specifically about man and that is important when it comes to understanding the Bible as an "instruction manual." 

The Bible is NOT our way to the kingdom; Jesus is. The Bible is one of the ways we learn that fact. 

 

 

I get what you saying and normally what you suppose to do is what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. This is done by using scriptures and Verses.

But, I understand where you are, and I say that you should not teach that way or use Jesus against the Bible like that. Today we living in a time where you might find Jesus in other Books. So to keep the confusion down keep the focus on the Bible KJV. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter:1). 

Keep this in mind. When you putting a thought together concerning the word of God, always have a  scripture or verse ready to go with it. So when you tell someone you can back it up with book.

Now, Paul says in Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I agree and do believe it's all about Jesus to us and his will, because we are trying and learning to be Christ like, but to God, it's all about his creation, which include all things he created from the beginning.

 

17 hours ago, Josheb said:

 

An the response to those two last statements should be, "Yep. I completely agree."

Because if you disagree there's a huge problem with this op. 

And understanding why God saved people, and what the Bible says about that, is a great place for the guy who believes the Bible is an instruction manual for man and thinks it is the way to the kingdom to begin. 

So I asked. 

Not wanting conflict. 

Do you know why God saves anyone? If not then a good, honest, "I do not know," is the correct answer. Honesty is always best. The words "I do not know" is a great place of learning if there is a heart to do so. 

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 

 

Why does God save?

1 Chronicles 16:23
"Sing to the LORD, all the earth; Proclaim good tidings of His salvation from day to day."

Psalm 24:1-5
"The earth is the LORD'S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.  For He has founded it upon the seas And established it upon the rivers.  Who may ascend into the hill of the LORD? And who may stand in His holy place?  He who has clean hands and a pure heart, Who has not lifted up his soul to falsehood And has not sworn deceitfully.  He shall receive a blessing from the LORD and righteousness from the God of his salvation." 

Psalm 35:9
"And my soul shall rejoice in the LORD; It shall exult in His salvation."

Psalm 85:9-11
"Surely His salvation is near to those who fear Him, That glory may dwell in our land.  Lovingkindness and truth have met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.  Truth springs from the earth, and righteousness looks down from heaven."

Psalm 96:1-4
"Sing to the LORD a new song; Sing to the LORD, all the earth.  Sing to the LORD, bless His name; Proclaim good tidings of His salvation from day to day.  Tell of His glory among the nations, His wonderful deeds among all the peoples.  For great is the LORD and greatly to be praised; He is to be feared above all gods."

Psalm 98:2
"The LORD has made known His salvation;"

Salvation is of the LORD (Ps. 3:8, 37:39) and no other can save us from sin or His wrath, and it is in Him and Him alone that we find rest (Ps. 62:1). The Bible is God's instruction manual to us that is first and foremost about Him and His crucified and resurrected Son is the only way to Him. 

Why did God save? 

He did not have to do so. He could have wiped the earth clean of all sinners but He did not. He saved us! Praise Him! 

Why? 

Why did God save? Why did He save anyone? 

Answer that question, please, if you can, without accusing me wrongly of wanting conflict. 

 

Why did God save?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

18 hours ago, Josheb said:

I am not. Why do you think I am? 

Practice what you preach, Bro.Tan. If you think it is appropriate to assume I am looking for conflict and ask "Why"? simply because I ask  if my reading is correct then it is appropriate for me to ask and it is not appropriate for you to avoid answering. 

Is it being suggested I have not read the Bible? 
Is it being suggested I am not already a vessel of honor? 
Is it being suggested I do not keep His commandments. 

 

You, Bro.Tan, stated, "Please read it [the Bible]..." so I wonder "Why would someone tell me to read the Bible when I do so daily and have done so from cover-to-cover many times? Why would someone say, "Please read it..." unless it was being assumed I had not already done so? But I did not assume anything adverse about you. I asked. Is it being suggested I have not read the Bible? But look what just happened. It was assumed I was looking for conflict! 

You assumed something derisive about me - not my posts(s) but me personally. 

So I ask.... I ask why do you think I am looking for conflict when so far all the negative assumptions and all the negative comments are coming from you. 

 

You, Bro.Tan, stated, "Fear God and keep His commandments..." to a person who has explicitly stated the Bible is about Jesus, affirmed its contents as such and reached agreement with you on the most important feature of God's word. So I wonder, why would someone having read what I have posted about the Bible tell me to fear God and keep His commandments? Is it being assumed I do not fear God? Is it being assumed I do not keep His commandments? I don't read anything indicating those are words of encouragement, so why is that being posted? But rather than assume anything negative about your motive or your person... I asked. I did not tell; I asked. Is it being assumed I do not fear God and keep His commandments? Otherwise, why post such a thing? But rather than reading the question getting answered, rather than reading, "No, Josh, I do not mean to infer you do not fear God, I simply meant we should all do that.... so let me clarify that," rather than reading an answer to the question, than reading any clarification, rather than reading anything that would avoid conflict I read an explicit statement, "You are looking for conflict." 
You, Bro.Tan, stated, "Please read it so that you can become a vessel of honor in the house of the Lord." That's what was posted, Bro.Tan. So I wondered, "Why would someone say such a thing? Is it being assumed I do not read the Bible AND that I am not already a vessel of honor in God's house? Why would some one say such a thing? But I did not assume anything negative about either you or that comment..... I asked. I asked, "Is it being assumed I am not already such a vessel?" and if the answer had been, No, brother Josheb, I do not mean to imply anything negative about you please do let me rephrase what I said," then we will have no conflict. But that is not what happened, is it? No, instead of clarifying the matter an overtly negative assumption was made and I was told I ad looking for conflict when I am not in fact looking for conflict. 

I am looking for clarification AND I am providing the opportunity to do so AND providing that opportunity BEFORE I assume any conflict has occurred. 

 

I think it is time. 

I think it is time for you to look at you r own heart and your own words, Bro.Tan. 

I think it is time for you to look at you r own heart and your own words, Bro.Tan, because I did not post anything bad about you but you did about me. I think it is time for you to look at you r own heart and your own words, Bro.Tan, because I did not post anything bad about you but you did about me and scripture tells us the words we post come from the abundance of our heart (Lk. 6:45).Your words come from your heart. My words come from my heart. My words ask, and the ask for clarification, and they ask for clarification before judging, and they ask for clarification before judging so as to avoid conflict.

Your words judge. 

Luke 6:45
"The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart."

 

So I think you have three options. 

1) We start over and you answer the questions asked and you do so in a manner that isn't judgmental and doesn't create conflict, but instead proactively creates agreement and further clarifies your position.
2) You stick to this misguided idea I am looking for conflict and further defend the wrong accusation and thereby prove  what I have just posted correct and undermine your own op by proving you do not actually follow God's instruction manual.
3) You ignore my posts and let the current contents of both our posts stand as their respective testimonies. 

I think option one is the most scriptural and therefore your best option, and the option that will most support this topic and prove you live what you preach. Prove you, Bro.Tan, are not looking for conflict and that any conflict we currently have occurred by mistake because you have told an obedient Bible-reading vessel of God's honor to read the Bible, be a vessel, and keep His commands unnecessarily without explaining why even when asked. 

 

You choose. 

 

 

.

Again, my apologies I must have misunderstood you

[Bro.Tan]

On 1/22/2021 at 1:00 PM, Josheb said:

No, not gonna happen. The KJV is just as flawed as any other translation. It is not the most formal translation, either. Neither do I speak in 400 year old English. We live in a day and age when the Hebrew or Greek is only a few seconds away so the veracity of any translation can be verified. There is absolutely no warrant for making your own op about translations and you're going to undermine your own if you expect others to use only one translation. That is the kind of thing people looking for conflict post. If you want to use the KJV then do so but I prefer the NAS for its more literal, formal, word-for-word accuracy, and if a dispute arises over the translation we can together and collaboratively examine the Hebrew or Greek.  Most here will agree to that practice no matter their preferred translation. Not likely to be relevant given the topic and the conversation so far so avoid the digression. Try not to make problems where none exist. 

 

The Bible is humanity's instruction manual. The Bible was not originally written in 17th century English. 

Be it unto you my friend.