grahampaul Posted January 17, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 431 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 263 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/31/1950 Share Posted January 17, 2021 10 hours ago, Frits said: The false doctrine can be recognized by this, that man is born with a sinful nature! math 7v16,Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted January 30, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,256 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,671 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2021 Rom 6:3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Rom 6:4. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. Going beneath the water in baptism represents the death and burial of the old man. Coming up out of the water helps us to identify with the new life we have in Jesus. We are born again with Christ living in us. It is a testimony to what Christ has done in us. In infant baptism the parents repent and confess Christ on behalf of the baby, but the child is suppose to confirm those things around the age of 12 confessing their own repentance and belief in Christ. I personally believe that infant baptism is just a parent's dedication to raise the child to believe. It would seem more scriptural for the child/person to be baptized after they repent and confess Jesus Christ as LORD God YHVH. Never can I think that a person who has not been immersed as an adult is not saved. However, I do know of people that God has called to be immersed as adults who refuse on the grounds that they had been baptized as infants. If the Spirit is calling a person to obey in baptism they should definitely obey. That is walking in the Spirit, obeying the Spirit in faith. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted February 5, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2021 On 1/15/2021 at 12:37 PM, HAZARD said: I have read many times over the years questions from people; "How can God allow innocent children burn in Hell because they were not for many and varied reasons, baptized?" God does not send any innocent children or even adults to hell because they are not batized. There is not one word in the entire Bible that mentions Infant baptism or any such practice. It is very clear from Scripture that baptism is only required after men have repented of their sins and have been born of the Spirit of God. There is no express command for infants to be baptized untill they become responsible agents and turn to God and have their sins, as adults, remitted. Salvation is a personal experience and children must become old enough to accept salvation before they are commanded to be baptized. Children, untill they become responsible, even though their parents are unsaved, will be taken to Heaven if they die before accountability just as much as those of saved parents. Read Matthew 18:1-10; 19:14). Scripture demands faith and repentance as being necessary before baptism and this no child can do untill he is old enough to understand sin and what to do to be saved. Infant baptism became prominent when churches began teaching baptism and other sacraments to save the soul and remit sin. Such practice makes it impossible to obey Christs command later without admitting infant-baptism was of no benifit. Since there are so many Scriptural reasons why infant-baptism should not be practiced and since it has no efficay it would be best to wait untill the child turns to God by faith and repents of sins of their own free will before it becomes baptised. Baptism is a symbol of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and it is a testimony to all the world that the individual has been saved from a life of sin and that the individual is now walking in newness of life. It is only people who are followers of Jesus that are commanded to be baptized. (Read Matt. 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16; and Acts 2:38-39). The repentant thief on the cross at Jesus crucifiction was never baptized yet Jesus told him that "To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). So the truth is Baptism alone is actually not necessary for salvation. The purpose of baptism is not to save the soul, sanctify one, or make us children of God, Jesus did that through His death and resurrection. The sole purpose of baptism is plainly taught as being figurative and not litterally a clensing from sin. The palsied man of Matt. 9:1-7 was saved without water baptism: "Jesus seeing their faith [not their water baptism] said . . . thy sins be forgiven thee . . . the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins." Jesus did not baptize one person in all His ministry but He did remit sins of many people (John 4:2). This is sufficient proof that sins can be remitted without water baptism. There are many cases of remission of sins and healing which were done by faith without water baptism (Matt. 9:22; Mark 5:34; 10:52; Luke 7:48' 17:19; 18:42; Acts 3:16). An unnamed woman sinner was forgiven her sins before and without water baptism. Jesus said, "Her sins, which are many are forgiven . . . thy sins be forgiven . . . thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace (Luke 7:36-50). If Jesus allowed adults forgiveness and entry to heaven without baptizm, then why would He expect Children to be baptized to guarantee entry to heaven? Many more scriptures fill the Bible showing adults being saved without water baptism. What about people who have never ever heard of Jesus, or the gosple? Are these many billons of people doomed to Hell? No way at all. Scripture shows that God does have a basis of dealing with people, even heathens, who have never heard of the Gospel. God will deal with them on the basis of the light they have recieved, and on the basis of obeying their own conscience. Read Romans 2:12-16. Six-week-old baby dies following baptism after its head was put under water three times at Romanian Orthodox Church A baby died after inhaling water while being baptised on Monday Prosecutors have opened a manslaughter case against the priest A petition calling for the ritual to change has gained over 56,000 signatures By MAILONLINE REPORTER and AFP PUBLISHED: 21:05 AEDT, 5 February 2021 | UPDATED: 21:12 AEDT, 5 February 2021 The Orthodox Church is facing growing pressure to change baptism rituals in Romania after a baby died following a ceremony, which involves immersing infants three times in holy water. The six-week-old suffered a cardiac arrest and was rushed to hospital on Monday but he died a few hours later, the autopsy revealing liquid in his lungs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted February 11, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,125 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,656 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 I'll tell you a little bit about where I'm coming from. I was attending a Baptist church and believe that teaching on Baptism. I have since relocated to a new church my wife and I really like a lot. Early on a senior pastor took me aside and in love talked with me about my beliefs because he was concerned there might be a future conflict. This is a Presbyterian church. We have been there close to a year and haven't seen even one infant "baptized" yet. After speaking with the present minister he affirmed the practice as a church teaching but made clear the child must make their own decision later on in life. IOW it is more symbolic of the parent's intent for that child. I would only ask then, why is water involved at all and why is it called "baptism" when clearly it looks more like dedication? In the Baptist church we had periodic infant dedications that did not involve water. I would imagine at this church I attend if a parent approached the minister and expressly requested a dedication, I'm pretty sure he would comply with that. This pastor came from a reformed Baptist background. So far the practice does not appear to be a major or even frequent practice, at least at this church. My main concern is we are up to attend a new members class where were are not required to join. Obviously there's a reason they have a new members class In this class I hope I learn more abut it. If agreeing to "infant baptism" is a part of membership there, then I would have to respectfully bow out. It just doesn't fit for me in any sense of the meaning of that word as it pertains to true baptism as symbolic to saving faith. I am hoping it isn't a prerequisite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyv Posted February 11, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,265 Content Per Day: 2.90 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Starise said: I'll tell you a little bit about where I'm coming from. I was attending a Baptist church and believe that teaching on Baptism. I have since relocated to a new church my wife and I really like a lot. Early on a senior pastor took me aside and in love talked with me about my beliefs because he was concerned there might be a future conflict. This is a Presbyterian church. We have been there close to a year and haven't seen even one infant "baptized" yet. After speaking with the present minister he affirmed the practice as a church teaching but made clear the child must make their own decision later on in life. IOW it is more symbolic of the parent's intent for that child. I would only ask then, why is water involved at all and why is it called "baptism" when clearly it looks more like dedication? In the Baptist church we had periodic infant dedications that did not involve water. I would imagine at this church I attend if a parent approached the minister and expressly requested a dedication, I'm pretty sure he would comply with that. This pastor came from a reformed Baptist background. So far the practice does not appear to be a major or even frequent practice, at least at this church. My main concern is we are up to attend a new members class where were are not required to join. Obviously there's a reason they have a new members class In this class I hope I learn more abut it. If agreeing to "infant baptism" is a part of membership there, then I would have to respectfully bow out. It just doesn't fit for me in any sense of the meaning of that word as it pertains to true baptism as symbolic to saving faith. I am hoping it isn't a prerequisite. I'd be surprised if accepting infant baptism is a requirement of membership in a Presbyterian church. In our church, which shares much similarity to the Presbyterians, we have an elder who serves despite his difference of belief regarding infant baptism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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