Marathoner Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 71 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,144 Content Per Day: 7.06 Reputation: 13,104 Days Won: 97 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 8 hours ago, Alive said: Us Jesus freaks back in the day were baptizing new converts....we went down to the lake or bathtub when cold. I remember getting dunked within a day or so as I recall. It was a wonderful experience as I knew I did what my new to me Lord wanted. Those were great days! Yes indeed, I was baptized in a water trough on a farm. It was filled with fresh water so no horse slobber! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 12 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: You stated: "This can also be misleading because a person can fake a conversion" Unknowingly people "fake" conversions all the time by: " accepting Christ " " saying the sinners prayer" " answering an altar call" " becoming a church member" (These are examples of "works of righteousness " which may produce self assurance but do nothing in the eternal sense. I just do not see any reason for water in the New Testament. Either Jesus took care of this whole deal for us or he did not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 33 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said: Water In the NT has more spiritual significance than anything. You probably already knew this but to baptize means to "wash", as in the washing away of our sins.... "the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" ( Titus 3:5). It's truly sad how much emphasis ( or misunderstanding) is given to the physical act of water baptism. God commands us to be baptized with the Holy Ghost, not in a tub of water. In other words the symbolic act of water baptism does not guarantee anything of eternal value. Let's say for example , That a born-again believer does not attend church (the building), considering the time that they live in. They do not have to be committed to a congregation over the ordinance of baptism or even " communion ". We might as well add the " gotcha" verse ( Hebrews 10:25), which does not require church attendance. You stated: "Either Jesus took care of this whole deal for us or he did not." He did . He "came by water and blood" ( 1Jn 5:6)....cleansed by His blood. Thank you Lord Jesus for atoning for the sins of your people. There's nothing to wash. We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual. The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once a person is in Christ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 The necessity for water baptism as both a commandment and a sacrament water baptism by full immersion = death, burial and resurrection John 12:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,083 Content Per Day: 9.75 Reputation: 13,564 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 16 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: You stated: "This can also be misleading because a person can fake a conversion" Unknowingly people "fake" conversions all the time by: " accepting Christ " " saying the sinners prayer" " answering an altar call" " becoming a church member" (These are examples of "works of righteousness " which may produce self assurance but do nothing in the eternal sense. And herein lies the potential danger in any church ordinance. It is a thing we do. Sometimes having a thing to do makes us feel more spiritual. It's an action that can sometimes be misunderstood or misinterpreted. In the case of Biblical baptism it is what it is nothing more. Nothing less. 1 hour ago, Peterlag said: There's nothing to wash. We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual. The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once a person is in Christ. The great commission is probably the main basis for water baptism. Matt 28:16-20 6 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” True "there is nothing to wash". The idea of Baptism is showing the world you already were washed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,667 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 857 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 21 minutes ago, Waggles said: The necessity for water baptism as both a commandment and a sacrament water baptism by full immersion = death, burial and resurrection John 12:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied. A sacrament and a commandment? Water baptism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regenerated-Adult Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 196 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2021 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Waggles said: The necessity for water baptism as both a commandment and a sacrament water baptism by full immersion = death, burial and resurrection John 12:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied. I do not mean to sound nasty or bad in any possible way, but has it occurred to you at all in your thinking processes in your mind and physical brain, that some people can be saved without being baptised with water and also not saved and baptised with water? I really don't mean to sound mean, but it sounds to me like you think works is salvation and the Bible is extremely clear that grace is not works that people perform. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 22 minutes ago, Regenerated-Adult said: works is salvation and the Bible is extremely clear that grace is not works that people perform. Baptism by water and the Holy Spirit is not works baptism is entry into the Kingdom of God - it is spiritual obedience to the gospel is not works but rather faith and believing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,667 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 857 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, Waggles said: Baptism by water and the Holy Spirit is not works baptism is entry into the Kingdom of God - it is spiritual obedience to the gospel is not works but rather faith and believing. How is water baptism a sacrament and a commandment? To be candid, this sounds like RCC! For me, there is absolutely no doubt we MUST be baptized IN THE HOLY SPIRIT... Further, we also MUST obey (certainly try) to obey His Commandments! Can you explain or elaborate on why water baptism is both a commandment and a sacrament! Thank you, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Starise said: And herein lies the potential danger in any church ordinance. It is a thing we do. Sometimes having a thing to do makes us feel more spiritual. It's an action that can sometimes be misunderstood or misinterpreted. In the case of Biblical baptism it is what it is nothing more. Nothing less. The great commission is probably the main basis for water baptism. Matt 28:16-20 6 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” True "there is nothing to wash". The idea of Baptism is showing the world you already were washed. Has nothing to do with the Christian. Christ had not yet risen out from among the dead in the gospels you are reading from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts