Should I Tell My Non-Christian Friends God has Determined Them to Go to Hell?

[Uber Genius]

27 minutes ago, Episcopius said:

Calvinism makes me feel like vomiting.

 

There are many things in scripture that are abhorrent but never-the-less true. I have a similar reaction but want to appeal to why  it is a false representation. And encourage people to go to the soteriology section to start to engage the arguments for Calvinism intellectually. 

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Waggles said:

Agreed.

but in the end when God judges all of humankind from the very first human beings on Earth to the last person alive He will dispense his mercy and grace according to his judgement: 

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 
12  And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 
13  And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 
14  Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 
15  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Yes, that's also true.  Everyone is a sinner, so everyone who did not believe in Jesus Christ will be judged according to his sins and thrown into the lake of fire.

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Uber Genius said:

The question wiggles is asking (I believe based on this topic in the OP)

Isn't "Is there more than one way of salvation," but 

        "Does the ramifications of the question I asked that all non-Christians are necessarily going to hell?" Of course even on Calvinism the answer is no. God could force someone to choose him before they die. 

 

God does not force people to choose him.  What God does, for his elect, is get the gospel to us, make us born again, and give us a new soft heart/spirit that willingly (not forced, which would necessitate overpowering resistance) repents and believes in Jesus.

[Uber Genius]

53 minutes ago, Waggles said:

Revelation 20:13 to me clearly describes that all peoples have the hope that their names are written in the Book of Life from tribal hunter gathers to the untouchables of India. 

Yes millions (?) will not have their names in the Book of Life because of their works. 

Romans 2:14  For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 
15  They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 
16  on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. 

Yes but we dont have a discussion of how they got their names written in the lambs book of life. The Calvinists responds, yep, God filled that book out before he created one human being! Since human choice doesn't enter into salvation on Calvinism. 

That is why I think we need to go to passages about salvation specifically. 

But you passage from Roms. 2:15 does give us a clue

"Their conscience bears witness!"

why would a predestinated, chosen, member of the elect, who receives salvation as a functions of God's choice and work alone, make ...

ANY REFERENCE TO HUMAN CONSCIENCE WHATSOEVER???

So that is one of hundreds of verses that cause us pause at the Calvinist reference. Great verse!

[Guest clancy]

20 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

So Clancy our discussion has morphed to unfold the true nature of Calvinism. This view that is growing in the Evangelical church and was predominant with reformers like Luther, Calvin and even snagged John Wesley holds that God forces man to receive him and forces man to reject him full apart from any foreknowledge of what that person would have freely chosen! 

I'm again playing devil's advocate here. It does seem amazing doesn't it. 

Just saying, God will never force, His Will Be Done...For a word from God will never fail....but he doesn’t get it by force.

Edited February 11, 2021 by clancy

[Guest clancy]

13 minutes ago, David1701 said:

God does not force people to choose him.  What God does, for his elect, is get the gospel to us, make us born again, and give us a new soft heart/spirit that willingly (not forced, which would necessitate overpowering resistance) repents and believes in Jesus.

AMEN!!

[Uber Genius]

49 minutes ago, Paul James said:

Therefore, there is more chance of success with your non-Christian friends if you testify to what Jesus did on the cross for them.   Paul said that when prophecy is used, that can cause a person to fall on their face and determine that God is with us.  John says that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy;   therefore testifying of Jesus activates the power of the Holy Spirit to bring conviction of sin to sinners and their need of Jesus to be their Saviour.

Agreed!

The question was to spur a conversation about the growing influence of Calvinism in the Evangelical church. "Conviction of their need," is both spiritual and rational, in my view. Firstly the HS works, secondly we consider through our faculty of introspection New feeling of moral accountability toward God, secondly we examine rational claims by Jesus and his followers to determine if true. Thirdly we decide to act an confess Jesus as Lord. 

Calvinist would rail on my discussion of human falculties, or examining claims, or deciding. Those terms are for synergists who think man can earn their way to heaven. 

I am not a Calvinist and so would take your advice to heart and work with the HS to both help them understand the scriptures, God's loving nature, his enormous price he paid by sending his son to die in our place, where they stand as sinners separate from god's grace, etc. 

[Uber Genius]

3 minutes ago, clancy said:

Just saying, God will never force, His Will Be Done...For a word from God will never fail....but he doesn’t get it by force.

Agreed. I too reject Calvinism!

[David1701]

4 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

Agreed. I too reject Calvinism!

Well now, that's strange, because I also agree with the post of clancy's to which you replied; but, I am what you would call a "Calvinist" (I don't like the term).

It appears that part of what you are rejecting is not what we believe...

[David1701]

21 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

Yes but we dont have a discussion of how they got their names written in the lambs book of life. The Calvinists responds, yep, God filled that book out before he created one human being! Since human choice doesn't enter into salvation on Calvinism. 

Human choice is a part of salvation; but, our salvation is not because of our choice (will).  God gives his elect a new, soft heart and spirit, with resulting repentance and faith flowing from that new heart/spirit, leading to us choosing willingly to follow the Lord and seek to please him.