Alive Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.48 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted February 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, Regenerated-Adult said: Are you saying that this relationship with God occurs outside of the Bible in some way, and if so, how? Outside of the Bible? Not sure what you mean. If you mean, do I need the Bible in order to have a relationship with my Lord and Father? Then my answer is no. Having the Bible and being able to read it is a remarkable benefit, but it is not in and of itself an absolute requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regenerated-Adult Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 196 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Alive said: Outside of the Bible? Not sure what you mean. If you mean, do I need the Bible in order to have a relationship with my Lord and Father? Then my answer is no. Having the Bible and being able to read it is a remarkable benefit, but it is not in and of itself an absolute requirement. Part of the problem with this view is that it opens the door to extra Biblical revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.94 Reputation: 7,798 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Regenerated-Adult said: Part of the problem with this view is that it opens the door to extra Biblical revelation. Why not? There are at least four 'canons'. Just read and sift for truth. Read what the Lord read and the disciples. Read all of it and see. Also see what they quote from in the NT and the other second temple literature. Remember their 'bible' was the LXX and Rabbinic writings, plus some Hebrew texts and Targums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.48 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Just now, Regenerated-Adult said: Part of the problem with this view is that it opens the door to extra Biblical revelation. Well--the fact is--I do have the Bible and all things can be checked against it. Do you realize for most of history before the printing press was invented in Europe in 1450 or so, bibles were very rare and a great many Christians the world over could not read? Those believers 'heard' the word, the Lord opened their eyes to Himself and gave the the gift of faith and the Holy Spirit and dwelled within them. Those believers and others since recognized that change within and begun to 'fellowship' with the Lord within themselves and their brethren. This is a very real and experiential reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regenerated-Adult Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 196 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Justin Adams said: Why not? There are at least four 'canons'. Just read and sift for truth. Read what the Lord read and the disciples. Read all of it and see. Also see what they quote from in the NT and the other second temple literature. Remember their 'bible' was the LXX and Rabbinic writings, plus some Hebrew texts and Targums. None of those are extra Biblical revelations though. You are talking about the Aprocypha and a couple of other writings, which aren't extra Biblical but contain ideas that contradict the established Canon and Jesus' atonement. There's reasons why the Reformation happened and why they left out those other extra writings. It's dangerous and too close to Roman Catholicism to be considered without something spurious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regenerated-Adult Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 196 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Alive said: Well--the fact is--I do have the Bible and all things can be checked against it. Do you realize for most of history before the printing press was invented in Europe in 1450 or so, bibles were very rare and a great many Christians the world over could not read? Those believers 'heard' the word, the Lord opened their eyes to Himself and gave the the gift of faith and the Holy Spirit and dwelled within them. Those believers and others since recognized that change within and begun to 'fellowship' with the Lord within themselves and their brethren. This is a very real and experiential reality. That's not the same as extra Biblical revelation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.94 Reputation: 7,798 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Regenerated-Adult said: None of those are extra Biblical revelations though. You are talking about the Aprocypha and a couple of other writings, which aren't extra Biblical but contain ideas that contradict the established Canon and Jesus' atonement. There's reasons why the Reformation happened and why they left out those other extra writings. It's dangerous and too close to Roman Catholicism to be considered without something spurious. It is up to you to read what you wish. God made us IMAGERS. He gives us freedom. The Reformation was a step in a direction but not necessarily totally correct. The canon of the western church was decided by Calvin and Luther based on the Israeli rewrite of the Hebrew text into what is now called the Masoretic text. There is not just one of these either. None of what I have studied diminishes the Atonement or Sacrifice of Yeshua. That is just scaremongering by some seminaries that want you to only accept their doctrines. (Check out Scofield's bible base on Darby's ideas) There are many many books and ancient Mesopotamian history that gets us to think like an ancient Hebrew and therefore understand what they understood. It is the way we must study and not use our modern doctrines or exclusive modern books to dictate our beliefs. I will say no more on this topic. However, for the benefit of the many thousands that might read this across the world - DO NOT BE AFRAID OF YOUR SCRIPTURES, ALL OF THEM. Read and study well. Take note of peer reviewed scholarship and those that dedicate their lives to studying ancient texts along with the Qumran texts and many thousands of fragmentary remnants. Edited February 15, 2021 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regenerated-Adult Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 196 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: It is up to you to read what you wish. God made us IMAGERS. He gives us freedom. The Reformation was a step in a direction but not necessarily totally correct. The canon of the western church was decided by Calvin and Luther. None of what I have studied diminishes the Atonement or Sacrifice of Yeshua. There are many many books and ancient Mesopotamian history that gets us to think like an ancient Hebrew and therefore understand what they understood. It is the way we must study and not use our modern doctrines or exclusive modern books to dictate our beliefs. I will say no more on this topic. However, for the benefit of the many thousands that might read this across the world - DO NOT BE AFRAID OF YOUR SCRIPTURES, ALL OF THEM. Read and study well. Take note of peer reviewed scholarship and those that dedicate their lives to studying ancient texts along with the Qumran texts and many thousands of fragmentary remnants. Actually, this isn't quite germane because the Aprocrypha contain notions of purgatory, which is one of the biggest problems that goes against the atonement. This is well known and shouldn't be problematic. And there is no such thing as any "modern" books dictating our beliefs in this case. If you don't want to continue the discussion it is probably because there is a problem in your view. I am glad to continue any discussion and don't have anything to hide. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Amigo42 said: I ask this question because I believe that a lot of Christians are not prepared to respond to skeptics or people like Bart Ehrman who are scholars of the New Testament. I think that some Christians are too fundamentalist or narrow in a strict definition of inerrant. Is every single word in the Gospels exactly accurate and specific to exactly what occurred in history? Maybe not exactly, but that's not important. The point is that the Gospels give us a general and sometimes specific Outline of the ministry and purpose of the Lord Jesus Christ. All of the details in the between are not as important for Christians to twist themselves into psychological or spiritual knots. Did Jesus walk 20 paces and preach or did he walk 40 paces? How many paces he walked is not important. In reality maybe he only walked 25 paces and neither account of the 20 or the 40 is correct. This is not important or relevant to the Gospel message. We should hold to the Bible as the inerrant Word of God. The Bible should be read literally when at all possible. Too many people give the words in the Bible their own meaning which can lead to false teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted February 15, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 15, 2021 It means the bible is without error on contradiction, and everywhere a scoffer sees "a contradiction" they are only pointing out the failure of their understanding I find little value in joining a fool in his folly. If someone really wants to know, they will the truth.. If not, they never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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