By His stripes we are healed of what?

[Whyme]

This topic isn't about a spiritual gift but a certain scripture. The reason I post it here is because folks who believe in gifts use this scripture often. Its my belief that this scripture is misunderstood and I would like a friendly discussion on it. I believe Isaiah 53 isn't about physical healing but spiritual instead. Think about it, if sinners were physicaly sick we would all be phicically sick with disease but this isn't the case. We are all spiritually sick however. This Isaiah sripture is for us all too. We are all spiritually sick without Jesus to heal our spiritual man. Jesus said a sick man needs a doctor, and he was referring to spiritual sickness not physical and so is Isaiah (Mark 2:17)

Edited February 19, 2021 by Whyme
clarity

[Riverwalker]

On 2/19/2021 at 2:05 PM, Whyme said:

This topic isn't about a spiritual gift but a certain scripture. The reason I post it here is because folks who believe in gifts use this scripture often. Its my belief that this scripture is misunderstood and I would like a friendly discussion on it. I believe Isaiah 53 isn't about physical healing but spiritual instead. Think about it, if sinners were physicaly sick we would all be phicically sick with disease but this isn't the case. We are all spiritually sick however. This Isaiah sripture is for us all too. We are all spiritually sick without Jesus to heal our spiritual man. Jesus said a sick man needs a doctor, and he was referring to spiritual sickness not physical and so is Isaiah (Mark 2:17)

This brings up a very interesting point

Salvation is possible, it is available to all, He will save anyone who asks

Healing is possible, but does God always heal?

Miraculous Healings are possible and  they are part of the Spiritual Gifts

1 Cor 12:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by [f]the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 

BUT, I do believe Isaiah is talking about our spiritual Salvation

Isaiah 53: 3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we [esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes[m] we are healed.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Whyme]

16 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

This brings up a very interesting point

Salvation is possible, it is available to all, He will save anyone who asks

Healing is possible, but does God always heal?

Miraculous Healings are possible and  they are part of the Spiritual Gifts

1 Cor 12:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by [f]the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 

BUT, I do believe Isaiah is talking about our spiritual

Isaiah 53: 3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we [esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes[m] we are healed.

Thank you for your thoughts.

[Whyme]

9 minutes ago, SONshine said:

@Whyme  Hi 

Isaiah 53:4 "Surely He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."

This word "griefs" in the Hebrew text reads "sicknesses.”  He carried our sorrows and pain that went along with those sicknesses. This could be translated spiritually also, for the world is spiritually sick.  Jesus died on the cross to carry your pain for you, if you are a believer

Isaiah 53:5 "But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed."

Jesus was pierced with that sword while he hung on the cross to pay the price for every sin that you and I would commit.  Jesus did not take the sword for something that He had done, but for what you and I have done; for Jesus was perfect in all manner when He lived His life in the flesh.  He was without spot and without blemish.

 

Thanks. Do you think Isaiah is talking about spiritual sickness, physical sickness or both?

, 

 

[Paul James]

1 hour ago, Whyme said:

Thanks. Do you think Isaiah is talking about spiritual sickness, physical sickness or both?

, 

 

Jesus quotes the reference in Matthew 8:16-17.  Here is the passage:

16 When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, 17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:

“He Himself took our infirmities
And bore our sicknesses.”

So it is obvious that Jesus' interpretation of the Isaiah reference is to do with divine healing.  Because John quotes Jesus in his gospel (14:12):

 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

When Jesus used the words, "most assuredly" He means what He says is the absolute truth without any doubt at all.  This means that genuine believers can, in the Name of Jesus, heal the sick in the same way He did.   The important point about this is that it has to be genuinely in the Name of Jesus (not just saying in the form of lip service), and not in one's own name as many television healing evangelists do.  Advertising a preacher as "God's man of faith and power" is actually saying that he is ministering healing in his own name and not really in the Name of Jesus.  Also, hero worshiping a special ministry as if the man (William Branham or Oral Roberts) were special people who God endowed something different from ordinary believers, implies that the man is also ministering healing in his own name.  I think this is why many don't get healed under ministries that are the object of hero worship.   But many healings have taken place through some unknown person without any reputation of a healing ministry, but has authentically ministered healing in the Name of Jesus, and the results have happened.

[Paul James]

On 2/20/2021 at 11:05 AM, Whyme said:

This topic isn't about a spiritual gift but a certain scripture. The reason I post it here is because folks who believe in gifts use this scripture often. Its my belief that this scripture is misunderstood and I would like a friendly discussion on it. I believe Isaiah 53 isn't about physical healing but spiritual instead. Think about it, if sinners were physicaly sick we would all be phicically sick with disease but this isn't the case. We are all spiritually sick however. This Isaiah sripture is for us all too. We are all spiritually sick without Jesus to heal our spiritual man. Jesus said a sick man needs a doctor, and he was referring to spiritual sickness not physical and so is Isaiah (Mark 2:17)

Jesus said quite clearly and through actual demonstration that Isaiah 53:4 was about physical healing.  Therefore, to say anything different is to contradict Jesus' interpretation of the verse.

[Paul James]

4 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

This brings up a very interesting point

Salvation is possible, it is available to all, He will save anyone who asks

Healing is possible, but does God always heal?

Miraculous Healings are possible and  they are part of the Spiritual Gifts

1 Cor 12:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by [f]the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 

BUT, I do believe Isaiah is talking about our spiritual Salvation

Isaiah 53: 3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we [esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes[m] we are healed.

In Matthew 8:16-17 Jesus Himself contradicts you by saying that Isaiah 53:4 is fulfilled by His healing of physical sicknesses.

[Paul James]

1 hour ago, SONshine said:

@Whyme  Hi 

Isaiah 53:4 "Surely He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."

This word "griefs" in the Hebrew text reads "sicknesses.”  He carried our sorrows and pain that went along with those sicknesses. This could be translated spiritually also, for the world is spiritually sick.  Jesus died on the cross to carry your pain for you, if you are a believer

Isaiah 53:5 "But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed."

Jesus was pierced with that sword while he hung on the cross to pay the price for every sin that you and I would commit.  Jesus did not take the sword for something that He had done, but for what you and I have done; for Jesus was perfect in all manner when He lived His life in the flesh.  He was without spot and without blemish.

 

Your interpretation of Isaiah 53:4-5 is totally in line with Jesus' interpretation in Matthew 8:16-17.

[Riverwalker]

8 minutes ago, Paul James said:

In Matthew 8:16-17 Jesus Himself contradicts you by saying that Isaiah 53:4 is fulfilled by His healing of physical sicknesses.

Thank you for the information

Matthew 8: 16 When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, 17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:

“He Himself took our infirmities
And bore our sicknesses.”

And surely He does today. But does he heal everyone all the time? I experienced "word of faith" movement when I was first saved, where I was taught that if you were poor it was your lack of faith, if you were sick it was your lack of faith, whatever they said God would do for you, if it wasn't done....it was because of your lack of faith. I found the lack of compassion and even low grade condemnation of people who suffered to be against what I was learning about God. So I am a little uneasy on the subject. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Paul James]

51 minutes ago, SONshine said:

I’m not really sure, but I would think both, according to His will. 

Here is the absolute proof that it is the will of God that people are physically healed:

"When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. 2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”

3 Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed" (Matthew 8:1-3).

Therefore because Jesus said it, I believe it, and so it is absolutely settled that it is God's definite will that people are physically healed.

If people don't get healed, it is not God's fault or of any secret decree that only some get healed.  When Jesus had His full way, everyone who was sick got healed.  What limited Him was an environment of disbelief, such has in His home town where only a few sick people got healed.   The reason why only a few get healed these days is that most churches don't believe that He either can or wants to heal the sick.  Cessationism has cast its ugly and faithless shadow over the churches and planted doubts in people's minds, and because most professing Christians are double-minded about divine healing, and that God doesn't honour double-mindedness, divine healing is largely hindered.