halifaxchristian Posted August 16, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 722 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2005 Boy you guys sure got me...eh??? Not likely. Scientific Athiest (a contradiction of terms) loves to accuse others of emotionalism while doing the same things himself. By the way...I didn't say that God ordered Israel to kill non-believers JUST FOR THE SAKE OF KILLING NONBELIEVERS. In fact, their simple unbelief itself was non even the immediate factor in these slayings. God ordered Israel to kill PEOPLE WHO WERE BENT ON DESTROYING ISRAEL AND WORLD PEACE. God ordered Israel to kill populations of people that were so thoroughly evil, polluted, and distorted that they were only a hindrance to everything and anything good on the planet earth. God didn't say...kill the heretics because they are. God said...kill those that are killing others. Huge difference. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted August 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted August 21, 2005 Most of those "groups" that God ordered Israel to kill didn't suffer very much from any of the niceties of polite society as we know it. When building a new building or home they killed their own children and buried them in the foundation as and offering to their god, so the home/building would have good fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halifaxchristian Posted August 21, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 722 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2005 God ordered His Chosen People, Israel...which, in spirit, started at Abraham, and, officially, at Jacob's conversion...to defend themselves against oppressors and groups of people that He, in His soveirgnty and foreknowledge and wisdom, concluded were only a hindrence to His councils and plans of love for humanity. God was no doubt preserving His people's fleshly existence in preparation for the Messiah, among other things that are unquestionably beyond my knowledge. God did order the killing of women and children at certain times. Although at first perspective this can be a troubling issue, all of the facts must be taken into account for a fair judgement. Ask yourself a question. Would there ever be a circumstance in which you would complement the killing of women and children? What if these women and children were demon-possessed, or full of disease, haters of God that would lead astray the Chosen People's hearts? What if these women and children were to be the downfall of all humanity by polluting the lineage of the Messiah of all mankind? Although you may differ in the significance of the points I bring up...presume you were a believer and these were legitimate concerns regarding the welfare of the inhabitants of the earth? I can understand a person rejecting the God of the Bible on the basis that He was, for the sake of argument, commanding mass murders and slaughters as a part of His simple nature. If this was the character of God apart from any other balance of terms, I would understand the reservations of unbelief. However, the character of the God of the Bible is far removed from this set of circumstances. Our God is longsuffering and patient...in the Old Testament and the the New. There are numerous examples of this throughout the Word. To pick out the few instances in which one may not understand God's particular dealings, and label Him a tyrant because of our biases...is just plain unfair and unwise. If God commanded the killings of women and children...I do not doubt His justice and righteousness in doing so. He has reasons beyond our mortal understanding that only His Spirit can reveal, that carnal understanding falls short of. If God was a God that commanded the killings of women and children as a mere outpouring of His person and essence...apart from outside influence and other variables contributing against His perfect and loving will...I would commend unbelief and, in fact, would be at the forefront of this movement. However, I believe in my mind, and know in my heart, that someday we will all bow down at God's feet and thank Him for all of His dealings with mankind...even the ones we found difficult at times down here. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronyLaughsatReason Posted August 21, 2005 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 24 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/14/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2005 I would not say god is a tyrant. I say more along the lines of a fumbling leader. A being that got in way over its head and has been sinking ever since. Not only is it sinking, but its desperate. Actually lets substitute desperate for egotistical. Actually lets not. Lets say that his desperation led to his ego. It is a proud ego that stems from desperation. It is masked by desperation. Christians call it forgiveness, but it is desperation. Why else could you rape, murder, plunder, and persecute and still be on the open ballot for heaven. No it is not forgiveness, it is desperation. The last ditch effort to salvage what is left of the poor pitiful world that it created. It knows it screwed up and it is trying to mask its PRIDE. It says you can live for ninety years and sin all day, every day as long as you wear that Christian body armor and say I'm sorry. As long as you fill my ego by telling me that i am all knowing and merciful and wonderful and magnificent, I will let you in. Sin all you want, just go to church on Sunday and say lord your are great, and I will let you in. BUT IF YOU ARE HONEST, CARING, LOVING, COMPASSIONATE, GIVING, AND FRIENDLY AND DONT GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY AND TELL ME HOW GREAT I AM, I WILL DAMN YOU TO HELL. Well maybe it is a tyrant and fumbling leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs Posted August 21, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2005 Irony the god you describe is not the God of the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 21, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,140 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,860 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted August 21, 2005 I would not say god is a tyrant. I say more along the lines of a fumbling leader. A being that got in way over its head and has been sinking ever since. Not only is it sinking, but its desperate. Actually lets substitute desperate for egotistical. Actually lets not. Lets say that his desperation led to his ego. It is a proud ego that stems from desperation. It is masked by desperation. Christians call it forgiveness, but it is desperation. Why else could you rape, murder, plunder, and persecute and still be on the open ballot for heaven. No it is not forgiveness, it is desperation. The last ditch effort to salvage what is left of the poor pitiful world that it created. It knows it screwed up and it is trying to mask its PRIDE. It says you can live for ninety years and sin all day, every day as long as you wear that Christian body armor and say I'm sorry. As long as you fill my ego by telling me that i am all knowing and merciful and wonderful and magnificent, I will let you in. Sin all you want, just go to church on Sunday and say lord your are great, and I will let you in. BUT IF YOU ARE HONEST, CARING, LOVING, COMPASSIONATE, GIVING, AND FRIENDLY AND DONT GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY AND TELL ME HOW GREAT I AM, I WILL DAMN YOU TO HELL. Well maybe it is a tyrant and fumbling leader. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Irony I don't know what new age people you have been listening to, but it surely isn't a christian or a christian church. No one (even the OSAS people) would think that the things you describe here could be done and still be accepted into the Kingdom of Heaven..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 21, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,140 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,860 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted August 21, 2005 ..... and BTW, The Father is not a tyrant, Satan is. It was not the Lord that caused the problem, it was Satan's pride and Adam and Eve's short sightedness that brought death and distruction ito the world. The Father simply made a way for us to not end up where Satan has deceived us into going. I'd call that a loving father and not a tyrant....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted August 22, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Most of those "groups" that God ordered Israel to kill didn't suffer very much from any of the niceties of polite society as we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted August 22, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2005 I say more along the lines of a fumbling leader. A being that got in way over its head and has been sinking ever since. Not only is it sinking, but its desperate. Actually lets substitute desperate for egotistical. Lets say that his desperation led to his ego. It is a proud ego that stems from desperation. It is masked by desperation. How about a leader who has a serious opponent who tells lies that people like you choose to believe? I mean if you're basing your knowledge on the Bible, the writers of the books said nothing of this sort. Let's look at what they've said. God created the world. He's powerful, creative, intelligent. Mankind failed over and over again, mostly due to temptations caused by lies from this opponent. Christians call it forgiveness, but it is desperation. Call it what you want, but from a Christian's perspective it is definitely feels like freedom and peace. Why else could you rape, murder, plunder, and persecute and still be on the open ballot for heaven. God hates these things. He knows that the opponent will tempt us, but has allowed us all the open door if we choose the right path. Reject this if you choose. But for the rest of us it works very well. The Christians who take it as far as they can, or the extremist Christians spend their lives in the jungles reaching the lost as Christ has commanded, giving up earthly possessions. Some dedicate their lives to helping the poor, the single mothers, the children, the starving. God knows our hearts. He knows sincerity and true repentance. If one is raping and murdering with the knowledge that they can be saved afterward and merely goes through the words to save their soul from hell, it won't work. No it is not forgiveness, it is desperation. The last ditch effort to salvage what is left of the poor pitiful world that it created. That's not true. The coming Messiah was not a last ditch effort at all. There are hundreds of prophesies fortelling his arrival for hundreds of years before his arrival. It was all carefully articulated. It knows it screwed up and it is trying to mask its PRIDE. It says you can live for ninety years and sin all day, every day as long as you wear that Christian body armor and say I'm sorry. Well, we all do sin every day. Even we Christians. We will be rewarded as He sees fit. Isn't it nice to know that there will eventually be a day of judgment where justice is truly finally served? As long as you fill my ego by telling me that i am all knowing and merciful and wonderful and magnificent, I will let you in. I sometimes wonder if God created worship to help us succeed as Christians. The oppononent, or Satan, simply cannot stand the sound of Christians worshipping God and he flees, thus opening the floodgates for our success and freedom. We are free to be one on one with God with no temptations. Doesn't that sound pretty awesome? Man I'm glad I'm a Christian. Have you ever been in a church and heard true worship, out of curiosity? Sin all you want, just go to church on Sunday and say lord your are great, and I will let you in. BUT IF YOU ARE HONEST, CARING, LOVING, COMPASSIONATE, GIVING, AND FRIENDLY AND DONT GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY AND TELL ME HOW GREAT I AM, I WILL DAMN YOU TO HELL. Can you name a person that we all know (a historic figure, celebrity, what have you) who is truly honest, caring, loving, compassionate, givine and friendly so we can take a further look at this? This person you name for this arguments sake would have to be dead already and have been known to publicly renounce Christ. There is a reason why I say they should be dead and it would require some explanation, but surely there must be a number of nonChristian people fitting the long description you have laid out, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted August 22, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2005 Well, as long as God had a good reason for slaughtering women and children. I think He must have had a very good reason. Otherwise, why would he command the Israelites to pass through the other lands peacefully, paying people in silver for supplies bought or used? Why choose only one group to slaughter and tell them to pass through other lands peacefully? Maybe being God he knew the future and knew how what to do to preserve the chosen race? A lot of Scholars beleive that the Cananites were actually part human part demon based on scriptures closer to the beginning of Genesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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