Is preaching once saved always saved helpful..

[JesusismyLord]

I have bee a christian for 9 years, I have always questioned the once saved always saved thing. If you look back at the 2000 years of the church history, do we really thing that the body of christ preached this like it does in the 20th and 21 century, the reformation didn't start till 1515. It just seems like everything that the roman catholic church believed was denounced by the protestant reformation out of spite. Even early church fathers didn't agree with what is being preached in this era... personally I'm still searching for what the bible says, there are a lot of verses that speak for both ways, but this era of christainity won't touch verses that don't go with the comfortable once saved always saved doctrine.

check out what early great church fathers said

Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyprian,

Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Origen

http://www.bible.ca/indexHistory.htm

[Trust & Obey]

I believe the Bible says that once you are born-again you are born-again. But, there are other passages that suggest that, even after being saved, you can be overcome by sin and guilty before God:

Jam 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Jam 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

So, while from God's perspective it may be that once a person is born-again he is sealed unto the day of redemption... for us here on earth we have to live out this faith day by day, working it out with fear and trembling, that we might reach that day holding fast our profession all the way until the end.

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

I think the Calvinism/Armenianism debate is a debate of perspectives. From God's omniscient perspective it is finished... but, from our perspective it is an ongoing process.

And, throughout that process, some will fall from the faith, as is suggested in the passages above, and they will be numbered with these below:

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

[eric]

JIML,

OSAS has been debated on this board for three years that I can remember and will continue until the Lord comes back. However I dont hold with preaching as fact, because it's inclined to get out of hand and some people get dogmatic about it.

Personally, myself, no one on this board (and there has been a lot of study done by some,) can convince me that you can't backslide without jeopardising your salvation. But that is only my own thoughts and I wont be drawn into argument about it.

cheers,

eric

[bukeye2745]

I agree Eric.

1 Timothy 4

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11 These things command and teach.

12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

[EricH]

I think the Calvinism/Armenianism debate is a debate of perspectives. From God's omniscient perspective it is finished... but, from our perspective it is an ongoing process.

And, throughout that process, some will fall from the faith, as is suggested in the passages above, and they will be numbered with these below:

1Jo 2:19  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As is the discussion of free will. From our perspective our choice is free. From God's, it is He who called us and enabled us to chose

[mikado5001]

G-d is not a liar Nor is he a cheat, or a scoundral. So why would he go back on HIS promise to us? We, as sinners, may fall away. But we never fall so far. That we are ever out of his mighty grasp.

REMEMBER:

Forever G-d is faithfull

Forever G-d is strong

Forever G-d is with us

Forever and ever!!

We sinners are NEVER going to be perfect. And we will always have times of backslide, or temptation too do so. But, like the song says, he is forever. And his promise, like his love, endures forever.

[Laura]

My normal comment to this is:

I was saved 31 years ago, August 19th, 1974 and I AM STILL SAVED!!!

Jesus said, "ye must be born again."

Many other verses throughout the Bible indicate same.

Backsliding is not losing salvation.

Praise the Lord, I AM STILL SAVED!

[Pax]

I have bee a christian for 9 years, I have always questioned the once saved always saved thing. If you look back at the 2000 years of the church history, do we really thing that the body of christ preached this like it does in the 20th and 21 century, the reformation didn't start till 1515. It just seems like everything that the roman catholic church believed was denounced by the protestant reformation out of spite. Even early church fathers didn't agree with what is being preached in this era... personally I'm still searching for what the bible says, there are a lot of verses that speak for both ways, but this era of christainity won't touch verses that don't go with the comfortable once saved always saved doctrine. 

check out what early great church fathers said

Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyprian,

Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Origen

http://www.bible.ca/indexHistory.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once saved always saved is a relatively new concept. And as you correctly pointed out above, the early Church fathers did not believe in this idea. It also isn't defined in scripture. I can list several scriptures that dispute the assurance of salvation. Look up:

Mt. 7:21 "Not everyone saying "Lord, Lord," will inherit the kingdom.

Mt. 24:13 "Those who perserve to the end will be saved." (Notice the word "Will") Obviously talking about salvation being a future tense, not past tense like OSAS would have you believe.

Rom. 11:22 "Remain in his kindness or you will be cut off. (Cut off from what)

Phil 2:12 "work out your salvation in fear and trembling. (Why would we need to tremble if we are already saved? Also notice the word "work." It is a process not a one moment in time event.)

1 Cor. 10:11-12 "those thinking they are secure may fall. (Fall from what? Maybe lose ones salvation.

OSAS is a nice concept, but doesn't hold water. It also is very misleading to go around telling people they are saved for life, and there is nothing they can do to lose ones salvation. Salvation is a life long process. We can only obtain salvation through the grace of God, but it takes our free will to make it happen. We can choose to deny him and spend eternity in hell. Or we can first accept him then live our life honoring and serving him, not only with our faith but also by our works. James 2:24 "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." It doesn't get any clearer than this.

[NITE OWL]

I personally don't support " once saved always saved ". There are too many holes in that theory. It's just not logical.

That's just my belief and I'll leave it at that.

[dgolvach]

If salvation can be lost, we should pray that everyone that gets saved dies shortly there after so they don't have a chance to lose it. Better a short life than an eternity in hell.

Dan