Sparks Posted April 6, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,160 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 2,514 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2021 23 minutes ago, David1701 said: My point was that being saved in not just about "accepting an offer"; it is about repenting and believing in Jesus Christ. The Biblical meaning of 'Repenting' means to change your mind and direction. It does not mean feeling regretful, and apologizing to God, but I would agree that a note of apology is appropriate. I certainly apologized for my sins, but that was not repenting. Accepting the Gift was repenting. 23 minutes ago, David1701 said: This is arrogance of worst kind! It is GOD who predestines! You do not choose your destiny, God chose your destiny, before the foundation of the world. Whatever. 23 minutes ago, David1701 said: You are just repeating your heresy over and over again, without engaging with the biblical points that refute you, so I'm going to leave it here and hope that God softens your heart. 2 + 2 = 4 every time. To repeat it seems appropriate when people doubt it. Why don't you show me, other than your opinion, how God's gift is not a choice you can accept or decline? I don't mean by negative inference, either. I mean direct language that says God said I cannot choose His gift, or one of the Apostles, or Jesus (God) Himself? I noticed you have not in the past. You do post a lot of negative inferences, but as you must know, a negative inference is a logic fallacy. You see, it's all made up from the point of view of a fatalist. Fatalists claim we cannot make choices, but when you wrote this post, you made one. So your statement is self-refuting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted April 6, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.51 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2021 29 minutes ago, SONshine said: Children of God = the predestined + the not-predestined. Do you have any Scripture for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leah777 Posted April 6, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,156 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2021 34 minutes ago, SONshine said: Children of God = the predestined + the not-predestined. John 8:44 New International Version 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Not all are Children of God. Unless I misunderstand you? If so, I apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted April 6, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.46 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Gee but it's great to be back home Home is where I want to be. I've been on the road so long my friend, And if you came along I know you couldn't disagree. It's the same old story, yeah Everywhere I go, I get slandered, libeled, I hear words I never heard in the Bible And I'm one step ahead of the shoe shine Two steps away from the county line Just trying to keep my customers satisfied, Satisfied. Deputy Sheriff said to me Tell me what you come here for, boy. You better get your bags and flee. You're in trouble boy, And you're heading into more. It's the same old story, Everywhere I go, I get slandered, libeled, I hear words I never heard in the Bible And I'm one step ahead of the shoe shine Two steps away from the county line Just trying to keep my customers satisfied, Satisfied Woah woah woah woah It's the same old story, Everywhere I go, I get slandered, libeled, I hear words I never heard in the Bible And I'm so tired, so tired But I'm trying to keep my customers satisfied, Satisfied 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted April 6, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.51 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2021 1 hour ago, SONshine said: Here in Ephesians, we can see both groups: the predestined and then those not predestined: . . . Ephesians 1:4-6 - predestined 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Ephesians 1:13-14 - not predestined 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory. Where do you see "not predestined" (I don't mean the exact words, but the concept) in Eph. 1:13,14? It's not there... God predestined his elect to salvation, through sanctification by the Holy Spirit and belief of the truth; so, of course they have to hear/read the gospel and believe it. That is the means by which God has chosen to save the ones he predestined to salvation. 2 Thess. 2:13,14 (EMTV) 13 But we are obligated to give thanks to God always for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning for salvation, through sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you through our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom. 8:29,30 (EMTV) 29 Because whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. "Foreknew", when referring to people, in the Bible, means "chose beforehand". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted April 6, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.51 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Alive said: Gee but it's great to be back home Home is where I want to be. I've been on the road so long my friend, And if you came along I know you couldn't disagree. It's the same old story, yeah Everywhere I go, I get slandered, libeled, I hear words I never heard in the Bible And I'm one step ahead of the shoe shine Two steps away from the county line Just trying to keep my customers satisfied, Satisfied. Deputy Sheriff said to me Tell me what you come here for, boy. You better get your bags and flee. You're in trouble boy, And you're heading into more. It's the same old story, Everywhere I go, I get slandered, libeled, I hear words I never heard in the Bible And I'm one step ahead of the shoe shine Two steps away from the county line Just trying to keep my customers satisfied, Satisfied Woah woah woah woah It's the same old story, Everywhere I go, I get slandered, libeled, I hear words I never heard in the Bible And I'm so tired, so tired But I'm trying to keep my customers satisfied, Satisfied I like Simon & Garfunkel. I doubt if they had ever heard of "not predestined" Christians either (words never heard in the Bible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted April 6, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.51 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2021 1 hour ago, SONshine said: Predestined/Chosen: Ephes. 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. . . . Free Will: Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: Proverbs 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Perhaps it escaped your attention, but Deuteronomy is law, not gospel. Proverbs 8:17 is a general principle that says precisely nothing about the ability of unbelievers to repent and believe. Rev. 3:20 was written, not to unbelievers, but to a Christian assembly. None of these Scriptures has anything to do with so-called "free will". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popsthebuilder Posted April 6, 2021 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 299 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 87 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/13/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Josheb said: Do you have anything topical to contribute in furtherance of the current discussion? Answering questions with questions, especially questions that are either rhetorical or insinuate words into others' posts is never appropriate. Do you have anything topical to contribute in furtherance of the current discussion? Not at this time. I've already made multiple scriptural references that remain ignored. And if it's rude to unpack loaded questions then call me rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted April 6, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.51 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2021 53 minutes ago, SONshine said: John 3:16 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Your signature has a couple of good verses. Let me just add the two preceding verses, to give a fuller picture. John 10:25-28 (EMTV) 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, these things testify about Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, just as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. These Pharisees did not believe BECAUSE they were not of Jesus' sheep. Notice which way round this is. It is not that they were not sheep because they did not believe; but, it is that they did not believe because they were not sheep. The "whoever believes" will never include such people, because they are not sheep, so they will not believe. Did you know that "whosoever" (the word used in Jn. 3:16, in the KJV you quoted) was a LIMITING word, especially when accompanied by a modifier like "believeth"? It would have been understood, by contemporary readers, to mean "...the subset of people who believe in him...", and certainly not, "...anyone can believe in him...". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leah777 Posted April 6, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,156 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Josheb said: If I may... Justin isn't saying the sinful person can, does, or will "turn from sinfulness to wanting salvation and having faith". He's saying the exact opposite. The unregenerate sinful sinner does not and cannot turn from sinfulness unaided by God to that end. S/he cannot want salvation. S/he cannot have faith, the kind of faith through which s/he might be saved. Justin do please correct me if I have misread the posts. before we are saved - we are unregenerate sinners then we are saved there must be something which changed the first into the second, a change of heart, desire, focus. something happens to make that change of direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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