leah777 Posted April 13, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.72 Reputation: 1,156 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, WilliamL said: Job was a righteous man in God's eyes at the time that the book commenced. That does not mean that Job was always a righteous man, and had never done any evil thing, even if out of ignorance. Please expand on why this is relevant? Our story begins after Job was called righteous, so why would his alleged past matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted April 13, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, WilliamL said: Why? Are the two situations possibly parallel. Likely so. Paul signed up for the job. He could have refused it. But he did not, he girded his loins, counted the cost and stepped up into hells fury Job was minding his own business. A righteous man, but a man of fear. I see a lot of that in myself. But His grace is sufficient for me. I do find the notion that God let Job's family be killed to prove something to satan just to be a little, un-Godlike. Which is why I think it was the fear that opened the hedge of protection, and not a grudge match between God and satan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted April 13, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,117 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, leah777 said: Please expand on why this is relevant? Our story begins after Job was called righteous, so why would his alleged past matter? Because past actions in the flesh have consequences. For a good example, I suggest you read the story about the famine in the days of King David, caused by a years-prior sin of King Saul. 2 Samuel 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted April 13, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,117 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Riverwalker said: I do find the notion that God let Job's family be killed to prove something to satan just to be a little, un-Godlike. Which is why I think it was the fear that opened the hedge of protection, and not a grudge match between God and satan Please read my post just prior to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leah777 Posted April 13, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.72 Reputation: 1,156 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2021 As being saved/declared righteous by God means the sin was blotted out, I fail to see why anyone thinks it was carried over to be paid for in later life. It goes against all we know about redemption and forgiveness. Are you implying that Paul was so punished by others becasue of his previous sins before being born again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted April 13, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,117 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, leah777 said: As being saved/declared righteous by God means the sin was blotted out, I fail to see why anyone thinks it was carried over to be paid for in later life. It goes against all we know about redemption and forgiveness. Are you implying that Paul was so punished by others becasue of his previous sins before being born again? Sins may be blotted out in God's eyes, but that does not necessarily mean that one can get away with the earthly consequences of those sins. We may be forgiven for past acts of fornication, for example, but still come down with a venereal disease. Don't you know that even though God forgave David for his sin with Bathsheba, there were still ongoing evil consequences that followed afterwards? See 2 Sam. 12:13-14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted April 13, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2021 The information we read here for Job is very relevant for us today. As born again Christians, Satan must also ask God for permission to test us. We are bought with the blood of Jesus and are His, therefore permission is needed. With Job, he was righteous before God and though he feared for his children, God saw Job’s heart as right standing and Satan knew Job could not be touched because of the hedge God placed around him. God also knew the hearts of the children. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted April 13, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 43 minutes ago, WilliamL said: Because past actions in the flesh have consequences. For a good example, I suggest you read the story about the famine in the days of King David, caused by a years-prior sin of King Saul. 2 Samuel 21 But Job did not die nor suffer personally, Just everyone and everything around him did, there is no Justice in that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted April 13, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,117 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Riverwalker said: But Job did not die nor suffer personally, Just everyone and everything around him did, there is no Justice in that I think that you are now just shooting from the hip. "But Job did not ... suffer personally..." ?? Then why was he scraping the puss off of his skin, while wanting to die? And the death of his children, that did not cause him to suffer personally?? And, "there is no Justice in that..." So what God allowed, even egged on Satan to do, was unjust? Sounds like you want to come up with anything to try to dis my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leah777 Posted April 13, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.72 Reputation: 1,156 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, WilliamL said: So what God allowed, even egged on Satan to do, was unjust? I disagree that God egged on Satan in any way. God set guidelines around what satan was allowed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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