80% of Christians Do Not Hold to a PreTrib Rapture

[WilliamL]

27 minutes ago, The Light said:

First off, we know that Noah entered the ark as commanded AND HE WAS SHUT IN. The happened 7 days before the flood.

No Scripture exists that says that; you are reading that into the text.

28 minutes ago, The Light said:

Secondly, even as the Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood, we know that the Church will be in heaven before the 70th week of Daniel. We know that because we can see kings and priests in heaven before the throne before the seals are opened.

They are there now, having been resurrected shortly after Jesus ascended. Matt. 27:51-53; 1 Pet. 3:19; 4:6; Eph. 4:9 etc. The 70th week of Daniel was for the Jews and was fulfilled in 66-73 A.D.; Daniel prophesied nothing about the Church.

34 minutes ago, The Light said:

Even so, we know that the twelve tribes across the earth will be in heaven before the wrath of God begins.

Again, you post "we knows" without a lick of Scriptural evidence. Zech. 12:10ff. and Rev. 7:1-8 belie your claim.

37 minutes ago, The Light said:

So your statement "must be twice, or you contradict Jesus" only means that you don't understand why it is twice. Once for the Church, 7 days before wrath, and once for the 12 tribes, the seed of the woman, the very day destruction or the wrath of God comes.

Again, not a lick of Scriptural evidence.

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, Chicken coop2 said:

So, let me try to get this straight.  In order to be in the Rapture, we need to build an ark and be sure to be inside it at the correct moment?

Don't forget the tin hat bro chicken...

[The Light]

On 6/10/2021 at 1:52 PM, WilliamL said:

Book of Jasher, Chapter 6:1 At that time, after the death of Methuselah, the Lord said to Noah, Go thou with thy household into the ark; behold I will gather to thee all the animals of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and they shall all come and surround the ark. ... 3 And the Lord brought this about on the next day, and animals, beasts and fowls came in great multitudes and surrounded the ark. ...  11 And on that day, the Lord caused the whole earth to shake, and the sun darkened, and the foundations of the world raged, and the whole earth was moved violently, and the lightning flashed, and the thunder roared, and all the fountains in the earth were broken up, such as was not known to the inhabitants before; and God did this mighty act, in order to terrify the sons of men, that there might be no more evil upon earth. ... 12 And still the sons of men would not return from their evil ways, and they increased the anger of the Lord at that time, and did not even direct their hearts to all this. ... 13 And at the end of seven days, in the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, the waters of the flood were upon the earth. 14 And all the fountains of the deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened, and the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. 15 And Noah and his household, and all the living creatures that were with him, came into the ark on account of the waters of the flood, and the Lord shut him in.

Let's look at the book of Jasher

Jasher Chapter 6

1. At that time, after the death of Methuselah, the Lord said to Noah, Go thou with thy household into the ark; behold I will gather to thee all the animals of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and they shall all come and surround the ark.

2. And thou shalt go and seat thyself by the doors of the ark, and all the beasts, the 
animals, and the fowls, shall assemble and place themselves before thee, and such of them as shall come and crouch before thee, shalt thou take and deliver into the hands of thy sons, who shall bring them to the ark, and all that will stand before thee thou shalt 
leave.

3. And the Lord brought this about on the next day, and animals, beasts and fowls came in great multitudes and surrounded the ark.

4. And Noah went and seated himself by the door of the ark, and of all flesh that crouched before him, he brought into the ark, and all that stood before him he left upon earth. 

5. And a lioness came, with her two whelps, male and female, and the three crouched before Noah, and the two whelps rose up against the lioness and smote her, and made her flee from her place, and she went away, and they returned to their places, and crouched upon the earth before Noah.

6. And the lioness ran away, and stood in the place of the lions.

7. And Noah saw this, and wondered greatly, and he rose and took the two whelps, and brought them into the ark.

8. And Noah brought into the ark from all living creatures that were upon earth, so that there was none left but which Noah brought into the ark.

9. Two and two came to Noah into the ark, but from the clean animals, and clean fowls, he brought seven couples, as God had commanded him.

10. And all the animals, and beasts, and fowls, were still there, and they surrounded the ark at every place, and the rain had not descended till seven days after.

11. And on that day, the Lord caused the whole earth to shake, and the sun darkened, and the foundations of the world raged, and the whole earth was moved violently, and the lightning flashed, and the thunder roared, and all the fountains in the earth were broken up, such as was not known to the inhabitants before; and God did this mighty act, in order to terrify the sons of men, that there might be no more evil upon earth.

12. And still the sons of men would not return from their evil ways, and they increased the anger of the Lord at that time, and did not even direct their hearts to all this.

13. And at the end of seven days, in the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

14. And all the fountains of the deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened, and the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights

****We see the exact same story that we saw in the Book of Genesis.*** 

Now we have verse 15. Note that this verse is given to us after the flood has occurred. It obviously occurs before the flood.

Jasher Chapter 6

15. And Noah and his household, and all the living creatures that were with him, came into the ark on account of the waters of the flood, and the Lord shut him in.

Then we can compare this verse to what is written in Genesis 7

7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

As usual, there are no contradictions. Noah, his family and all the animals entered the ark because of the waters of the flood.........7 days before the flood.

On 6/10/2021 at 1:52 PM, WilliamL said:

Moses gave the condensed version, Jasher provides the fuller account. Both say Noah went into the ark twice.

No. Both the book of Genesis and the book of Jasher agree that Noah entered the ark 7 days before the flood, even as the Church will be in heaven 7 days(years) before wrath.

On 6/10/2021 at 1:52 PM, WilliamL said:

Jesus referred to the second entry, the more significant one:

 

Jesus refers to the days of Noah and the days of Lot.

Jesus comes for the Church in the secret rapture 7 years before wrath (the pretrib rapture of the Church). 7 years later (the 70th week of Daniel) Jesus will come for His chosen bride (the pre wrath rapture of the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth.

Even as Jacob had to wait a extra week before he could marry Rachel.

[The Light]

41 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

No Scripture exists that says that; you are reading that into the text.

No, I'm reading the text. Its not all in one verse, but its pretty clear if you just accept what it says.

Gen 7

7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Quote

They are there now, having been resurrected shortly after Jesus ascended. Matt. 27:51-53; 1 Pet. 3:19; 4:6; Eph. 4:9 etc. The 70th week of Daniel was for the Jews and was fulfilled in 66-73 A.D.; Daniel prophesied nothing about the Church.

Not true. We can tell it's not true by the beginning of Luke 21 among other places.

Quote

Again, you post "we knows" without a lick of Scriptural evidence. Zech. 12:10ff. and Rev. 7:1-8 belie your claim.

Again, not a lick of Scriptural evidence.

FYI, Zech 12 occurs at the end of the wrath of God at Armageddon. So this has nothing to do with what happens before the wrath of God begins.

As for Rev 7: 1-8, it occurs before the wrath of God begins. As I told you, Revelation is written is the same style as Genesis 7. Meaning if you understood that, you would understand those in Rev 7:1-8 won't be going through the wrath of God. The are the first fruits of the harvest of the great multitude in Rev 7.

I don't think you will get this, but I'll try. The wrath of God begins with the 1st trumpet after the 7th seal is opened. The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet.

And then just like you should be able to see in Genesis, we get another version of the same story. So when you are reading Rev 14 and see the 144,000 first fruits these are things that happened back in the seals. Then we see the harvest in Rev 14 which is the great multitude of Rev 7.

I don't think you will understand this, but try to understand that Revelation is written in the same style as Gen 7 where we see different versions of the same story. When you understand where those versions begin and end, you will then get a clear picture of Revelation.

Edited June 13, 2021 by The Light

[The Light]

On 6/11/2021 at 4:12 AM, Diaste said:

It may have taken 7 days to load the ark. Maybe the 7 days was like the 2 minute warning in American football. "It's now down to the last moments, you better focus."

Maybe the animals were there a month or more before. I have loaded animals on trucks when I worked on my family's farm. I can't even imagine trying to get 1000 mammals aboard, much less the vast amount of four footed creatures alone that were on the ark. 

What I know is that the Word of the Lord will never contradict itself. If so, Holy Writ would lose all credibility. So when Scripture says, "...the 17th day of the 2nd month in the 600th year...on that selfsame day...." the people and the animals embarked then the detailed description of Who, What, Where and When is the best account, the most accurate and the correct one. 

In contrast there is no direct statement akin to Gen 7:13-16 telling us Noah entered the ark on any other day but the 17th day of he 2nd month in the 600th year. I don't even see it implied. But that's not really the point of the narrative. It seems to me the idea is when the wrath of God began. This is the lead in:

"In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12And the rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights." And the focus is the when the flood began. Verse 13 begins, "On that very day..." So on the same day the flood began, God's wrath on the people of the earth that were only thinking evil thoughts continually, those worthy of salvation and escaping God's wrath were secured and safe. 

There's little doubt Noah and family were in the ark on a daily basis. Construction was happening, supplies were stocked, they may have been sleeping in the ark. This group of people worked in and on the ark for a hundred years. Of course Noah was in the ark 7 days before, he was in the ark most weekdays for a century. It's the wrong focus to talk about Noah in the ark before the flood began. The correct focus is when the wrath of God began and the destiny of Noah and family in relation to wrath.

 

LOL. You crack me up. It's like you see what you want to see and discount what the word says. It's clear, Noah, his family and the animals are shut in the ark 7 days before the flood.

[TrueGospel]

https://www.gotquestions.org/posttribulationism.html

[Diaste]

On 6/13/2021 at 11:37 AM, Chicken coop2 said:

So, let me try to get this straight.  In order to be in the Rapture, we need to build an ark and be sure to be inside it at the correct moment?

Why? 

No one is saying anything remotely related to the above. The point, which I'm sure you didn't miss, is the gathering (rapture) happens the same day as wrath falls disproving pretrib doctrine.

[Dennis1209]

On 5/2/2021 at 4:37 PM, DeighAnn said:

Hi Diaste, any idea what percent believe the time from Satan kicked out to the return of Jesus shortened to 'an hour' or even shortened at all?  

Any way, super glad to hear that.   

Matthew 24:22 (KJV) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

I have always wondered about the meaning of this verse, I have heard and read many conflicting opinions on the meaning? We are given the exact length of the Tribulation in different ways; 1,260 + 1,260 days, seven weeks, etc. All of them boil down to exactly seven years, on the 360 day year Hebrew calendar. 

The above verse cannot be translated or read; except if those days continued on. Somehow and someway, they are going to be shortened? 

Daniel 2:21 (KJV) And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: Daniel 7:25 (KJV) And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The earth will probably still make one revolution every 24 hours, but here is a wild thought about changing the time(s) and shortening those days. What if:

For a lengthy period of time during Antichrists reign, 1/3 of the lunar, sun and star light will be lost. How will people recon what time it is, what is a day? For production, precision and coordination, will the calendar and clock need to be readjusted? 

Could this verse mean; it was originally scheduled for a longer period of time?

You have any thoughts?

[Justin Adams]

It is the time during the ad70 events. The believers noted matt 24 and fled to Pella. Not one was lost. They were told to flee the city which was unheard of in those days as the city was the refuge. But they did it and escaped. The others died mostly. There are other indicators too. "Hope your flight is not on the Sabbath" - why? Because city gates were closed on the Sabbath (no trade).

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Justin Adams