Retrobyter Posted June 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,621 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,460 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted June 15, 2021 22 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Retro, So it seems we are agreeing. regards, Marilyn. On 6/11/2021 at 8:20 PM, Marilyn C said: Hi Retro, You have not really read what I said, for I agree that the Lord is not operating in His kingship at the moment. Now I think you need to consider that you are placing the Lord, the one who to have the pre-eminence in all things, (Col. 1: 18) - 1. Below where Lucifer had his throne, 2. Below the angels, 3. Below where even Lucifer/Satan usurped power. That is NOT pre-eminence in ALL THINGS. Marilyn. Shalom, Marilyn. Yes, ... except as to WHERE Yeshua`s throne will be. Often, one seems to think that Yeshua`s throne will be in some PLACE called "Heaven"; however, that's not what the Scriptures say. It's not right to downplay what Yeshua` said about the Sheep-nations and Goat-nations war tribunal He will hold after He returns and one should not take the meaning of Isaiah 66:1 incorrectly. Isaiah 66:1 (KJV) 1 Thus saith the LORD, "The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?" The Hebrew of this verse is ... Yesha`yahuw 66:1 (JPS Hebrew-English TANAKH) 1 Koh aamar YHWH, "Hashaamayim kis'iy v-haa'aarets hadowm raglaay: eey-zeh bayit asher tiVnuw-liy v'eey-zeh maaqowm mnuchaatiy?" 1 Koh = 1 Here-; This-(is-what) aamar = says YHWH, = YHWH; the LORD, "Hashaamayim = "The-skies kis'iy = my-throne v-haa'aarets = and-the-earth hadowm = a-stool raglaay: = of-my-feet: eey- = where-(is) zeh = this bayit = house asher = that tiVnuw-= you-build liy = for-me? v'eey-= and-where-(is) zeh = this maaqowm = place mnuchaatiy?" = of-my-rest?" 1 Here-; This-(is-what) says YHWH; the LORD, "The-skies my-throne and-the-earth a-stool of-my-feet: where-(is) this house that you-build for-me? and-where-(is) this place of-my-rest?" This is what Stephen QUOTED in Acts 7:49: Acts 7:44-53 (KJV) 44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen. 45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; 46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built him an house. 48Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, "49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things?" (Isaiah 66:1-2a.) 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do ALWAYS resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye! 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels (messengers, probably the prophets), and have not kept it! And, one should recognize that the Creation account in Genesis 1 and 2 is ABOUT THIS EARTH'S BIOSPHERE, NOT ABOUT THE WHOLE UNIVERSE! Keeping these facts in mind, this verse is NOT talking about God making everything in the Universe; it's about God making everything they could see on earth and in the skies above! Of course, this includes the "stars also," as an afterthought, but it's mostly about the LIGHTS within the atmosphere! So, at most, this is talking about the Creation of space that we can see from earth! Don't think that haSatan has ANY access to the realm of space! He is s denizen of earth, the same as human beings are. Yeshua`s throne was KING DAVID'S throne first! (Luke 1:30-33.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted June 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,621 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,460 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted June 15, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Your closest friendnt, Just wanted to clarify what you meant. Good scripture there bro. Yes Stephen saw Jesus as the Son of Man, standing at the right hand of the Father ready to receive Stephen into glory. What a wondrous sight and such encouragement for the young man about to be martyred. Interesting to note that a few years later, John saw the Lord in a vision as the Son of Man, also, but the vision was so magnificent, so utterly blinding to his eyes that he fell as dead. This vision of the Lord described Him as the heavenly High Priest, overseeing the building and maturing of the Body of Christ. (Rev. 1: 13 - 18) Now as the Father had made Him a King priest, then He was (is) also a king, but He had not as then moved to His own throne/authority, as Rev. 3: 21 tells us. Thanks closest, as it adds to the discussion. Marilyn. Shalom, again, Marilyn. Very quickly, be careful of making assumptions that the Scriptures do not vindicate. Although Stephen definitely had a vision of Yeshua`, the Son of man standing on the right hand side of God, we are NOT told that he was going there! Even though he was "calling upon God, and saying, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit,'" it doesn't mean that HE was GOING THERE! He "FELL ASLEEP!" He was asking Yeshua` to take note of his SPIRIT - his VOICE - his TESTIMONY before his killers. Edited June 15, 2021 by Retrobyter to add a point of clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,235 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,517 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted June 15, 2021 4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: Hi Marilyn, blessings to you. I love the way you put together your post, first you greed, then you acknowledge something that the poster said and then you make your points, but I think you are making your points too quickly. This is from Revelation 1:5,6 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness,the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. * he has made us to be a kingdom and priest to serve his God and Father. To him who loves us and has free us from our sins by his blood be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. * This I hope will settle this matter. We are a Kingdom and Priest to serve to serve his God and Father. We are not a kingdom without a King, we have a King, Jesus is our King, and our Lord. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole world. He is the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings. He Rules, He opens and no one can close, he close and no one can open. Hi Your closest friendnt, Thank you for the encouragement. I see you often do the same. Now I am agreeing that the Lord is KingPriest. We see Him operating as High Priest in Rev. 1 -3 over the Body of Christ. However it is not till we get to Rev. 4 that we see the throne that the Father has set up for His Son in the angelic realm so that He is visible to the Body of Christ and angels. regards, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,235 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,517 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted June 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, again, Marilyn. Very quickly, be careful of making assumptions that the Scriptures do not vindicate. Although Stephen definitely had a vision of Yeshua`, the Son of man standing on the right hand side of God, we are NOT told that he was going there! Even though he was "calling upon God, and saying, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit,'" it doesn't mean that HE was GOING THERE! He "FELL ASLEEP!" He was asking Yeshua` to take note of his SPIRIT - his VOICE - his TESTIMONY before his killers. Hi Retro, `But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born, who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all,....` (Heb. 12: 22 & 23) regards, Marilyn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted June 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,621 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,460 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted June 15, 2021 6 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Retro, `But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born, who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all,....` (Heb. 12: 22 & 23) regards, Marilyn. Shalom, Marilyn. I've written about this before, but the Greek word used for "have come" is proseleeluthate and is a verb that is in the perfect tense, the indicative mood, and active voice for the second person. As such, it should be rendered as "are in the process of coming" because the verb consists of the word "pro-" plus the word "erchomai" in the perfect tense. It doesn't mean that we've already arrived; it means that we've already BEGUN to arrive or "come toward." Furthermore, the word "church" (ekkleesia in Greek) simply means a "called out" gathering and does not necessarily mean a Christian "church." The "firstborn" (prootokotoon) is a plural, genitive term that refers to those who were "first brought forth." That would be the Jewish believers who were the original disciples of the Messiah of God. Finally, just because they are registered or enrolled in the skies (ouranois) it doesn't mean they are going ABOVE the sky (epouranioo), which is how the New Jerusalem is described here. Hope you can follow this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,235 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,517 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted June 15, 2021 10 hours ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, Marilyn. Finally, just because they are registered or enrolled in the skies (ouranois) it doesn't mean they are going ABOVE the sky (epouranioo), which is how the New Jerusalem is described here. Hope you can follow this. Hi Retro, If the Body of Christ was just registered in the General Assembly, the angelic realm, then that is all God`s word would have said. However God`s word says concerning the church, the body of Christ, - `...to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born....` (Heb. 12: 23) Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted June 16, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,621 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,460 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted June 16, 2021 32 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Retro, If the Body of Christ was just registered in the General Assembly, the angelic realm, then that is all God`s word would have said. However God`s word says concerning the church, the body of Christ, - `...to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born....` (Heb. 12: 23) Marilyn. Shalom, @Marilyn C. But, that's what I'm trying to tell you. This "church of the firstborn" is NOT EQUAL TO "the church, the body of Christ!" One should understand that the word "firstborn" makes a difference as to what this "church" refers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 16, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,235 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,517 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, @Marilyn C. But, that's what I'm trying to tell you. This "church of the firstborn" is NOT EQUAL TO "the church, the body of Christ!" One should understand that the word "firstborn" makes a difference as to what this "church" refers! Hi Retro, `For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. `(Rom. 8: 29) This special title is used in four dignified relationships in regard to our Lord Jesus Christ. In His originating energy he is the Firstborn of all creation, (Col. 1: 15) In His earthly manifestation, He is the Firstborn of the virgin. (Luke 2: 7) In His overcoming victory He is the Firstborn from the dead. (Col. 1: 18) In His outstanding precedence He is Firstborn among many brethren. In no single instance does birth refer to a beginning but always a manifestation; therefore our Lord`s fourfold manifestation in this world is profoundly significant. The unparalleled dignity of His sublime person in unveiled as - The Creator of the Universe, The Crown of humanity, The Conqueror of death, and the Chiefest in spiritual society. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted June 16, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,621 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,460 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted June 16, 2021 41 minutes ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Retro, `For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. `(Rom. 8: 29) This special title is used in four dignified relationships in regard to our Lord Jesus Christ. In His originating energy he is the Firstborn of all creation, (Col. 1: 15) In His earthly manifestation, He is the Firstborn of the virgin. (Luke 2: 7) In His overcoming victory He is the Firstborn from the dead. (Col. 1: 18) In His outstanding precedence He is Firstborn among many brethren. In no single instance does birth refer to a beginning but always a manifestation; therefore our Lord`s fourfold manifestation in this world is profoundly significant. The unparalleled dignity of His sublime person in unveiled as - The Creator of the Universe, The Crown of humanity, The Conqueror of death, and the Chiefest in spiritual society. Marilyn. Shalom, Marilyn. Sorry, but I was trying to make it clear: The "firstborn" in THIS context is a PLURAL word! It doesn't refer to Yeshua`. It refers to a GROUP of people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 16, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,235 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,517 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, Marilyn. Sorry, but I was trying to make it clear: The "firstborn" in THIS context is a PLURAL word! It doesn't refer to Yeshua`. It refers to a GROUP of people! Hi Retro, There is NO scripture/s to back up what you have said. The `Firstborn` as a title in scripture relate to the Lord`s pre-eminence. regards, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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