Justin Adams Posted May 18, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 9,608 Content Per Day: 3.92 Reputation: 7,805 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Diaste said: Pointing out what appears to be a logical failure. And it was not disingenuous, it was dry sarcasm. So the casual reader is put off the topic. How many believers are ACTUALLY against the Gospel and God's Sovereign Power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 18, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,651 Content Per Day: 1.98 Reputation: 2,378 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2021 15 hours ago, Josheb said: Where does that kind of inquiry ever work? What Justin posted is correct and consideration should be given it. Revelation is largely apocalyptic language, so familiarity with the well known symbols in the Tanakh is necessary. John repurposes over 300 prophets and their idiomatic language. Jesus' revelation to John is largely apocalyptic language so familiarity with the well-known symbols Jesus used in Jesus' Tanakh is necessary. Jesus directed John to "repurpose" (not the word I would have used) more than 340 of Jesus' words to Jesus' prophets and the idiomatic language of Jesus' words in Jesus' prophets. And it didn't occur that OT prophets spoke through Christ hinting to the Revelation and the Revelation is the majestic revealing of the plan? In that the OT prophets were quoting the plan in place but not yet fully revealed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 18, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,651 Content Per Day: 1.98 Reputation: 2,378 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2021 17 hours ago, Josheb said: That is incorrect. The logically necessary conclusion of satan being a god is that there is a place where he rules and not God. That would mean there is a place where God does not rule because there is a ruler there other than God. You in fact did appeal to satan as the ruler of the world in explicit dispute of the point satan has no authority. You don't get to back out of that now. Not planning on backing out. No one has any authority if it's not given. In the case of a king he can confer authority on anyone he so chooses by his will. This conferring does not abrogate even the merest level of the kings rulership and sovereign right to rule. It's allowing another to administer a portion, not abdication of that portion. Just like Pharaoh allowed Joseph to administer the kingdom giving up no sovereign right. 17 hours ago, Josheb said: What you can do is be agreeable. "Yes, Josh, you are 100% there is only one God and He is God of all and that eternal, never-changing, undeniably, irrefutable, plainly-stated-in-scripture fact provides unavoidable meaning to what Paul wrote when he called satan the god of this world." Because within the context of a single sovereign omni-attributed big-G God there are no other literal gods. We are called gods! Why should the god that I am fear the god that is satan? Because some folks imagine the thrown-out- glory-removed, sin-enslaved, never redeemed or regenerate, carrion-eating, eternally bound, already-defeated satan is an actual god? No, that would be a lie from the pit of hell; one not to be believed by the adopted sons and daughters of The Most High God, especially not those who look at all of scripture and not just one verse calling a defeated carrion-eater a god. Yeah? God the Almighty is going to allow a person to call himself god and even act like god and even give this person authority for 42 months. The dragon has the power to give the beast power and authority...all under the watchful eye of the Most High God and by His leave. I never said God was not Almighty. Our Father, our Savior, and the Holy Spirit reign supreme over all creation. It's not a dichotomy there is an administration. In fact we see that all the time in scripture with Michael and Gabriel imbued with power and authority. Does that diminish God's sovereign omnipotence? I get you don't like it, no reason to get emotional. So God can rule absolutely and still allow administration of whatever portion He chooses to whomever He chooses. To say otherwise actually removes omnipotence and curtails the sovereignty of God limiting His acts of will. 17 hours ago, Josheb said: The verse that calls him the god of this world does not say he has any authority, over it or anything else. Are scriptures being pasted together without warrant? Oy. 17 hours ago, Josheb said: God is God and He is the only God and He is almighty. That defines everything, including eschatology and any eschatology that has a Creator allowing a creature to much up His kingdom the way premillennialists describe is a problem scripturally, exegetically, theologically, logically..... and these post prove that point. If nothing else I cannot get you to stay on a single point and discuss it to its exhaustion! Is that not a product of your eschatology and how it has taught you to discuss, debate, and argue? Well, I gave up on all that many years ago. I learned man has no answers. More than knowledge I wanted to understand. Lot's of people here filled with knowledge that can't yet understand. Part of the problem is that all of scripture is connected in the supremacy of Christ and understanding of the scriptures flows from the nature of God and His character, not exegesis and hermeneutic. I am on topic. It's always Jesus and everything about Him. 17 hours ago, Josheb said: Does Jesus have authority on earth? If your answer is, "Yes, Josh, Jesus has authority on earth," how then is that reconciled with, "I never said Satan has any supremacy over the Triune godhead. I said he has authority on earth, something that was given, allowed, by the Most High God." Well, listen to what was said. 17 hours ago, Josheb said: Jesus has authority on earth. Satan has authority on earth. Which one has greater authority? If there is a greater and lesser authority then which actually has authority? What would be the nature of the lesser authority's authority? Can you provide a specified list from scripture describing the nature of that lesser authority's authority? Can you now begin to see the problems with this model, this interpretation of scriptures about satan, being asserted? Can you see how it is all solved with two words: "God exists." ? In general we are back at the old argument; "If a condition exists and is true then a similar condition can neither be true or existing." You do this with the Temple argument. Because it's true the body individual and corporate is the Temple of the Holy Spirit then no other Temple can exist. Even as we see the evidence of millions of Christian temples and churches standing. I see no issue at all with the Almighty God of everything doling out responsibility in administration and even allowing levels of authority anywhere in His creation. So in fact Jesus can be the King and Lord of all creation and allow others to have authority. I mean look at the world; mankind is in control of the earth. Or do we suppose the evils in the world are directly approved by Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 18, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,651 Content Per Day: 1.98 Reputation: 2,378 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2021 17 hours ago, Josheb said: Already spoke to you about this. Maybe others will collaborate with the practice of copy-and-paste- eisegesis and constant moves from passage to passage and off-topic attempts to hijack others' ops and the demand already posted content be repeated but I will not. That's not fair, is it? Just because these things fly in the face of dogma is not a reason to be dismissive. In fact the more scripture disputes dogma the closer we should listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 18, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,651 Content Per Day: 1.98 Reputation: 2,378 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Justin Adams said: So the casual reader is put off the topic. How many believers are ACTUALLY against the Gospel and God's Sovereign Power? Not necessarily. Maybe some will think it's an apt query. I don't have enough info to answer that question. I would think the answer is none but I'm not sure what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted May 18, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 9,608 Content Per Day: 3.92 Reputation: 7,805 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Diaste said: I'm not sure what you mean. Amazing how many believers are bent on extolling their 'fact' that Yeshua is NOT now Ruling and Reigning. Their eschatology tries to PROVE He is not in COMPLETE CONTROL right now. How many believers have been taught to short-circuit the facts of the Gospel of Grace; that we are Ruling and Reigning with Christ in heavenly places right now. How many are trying to prove that God's Omnipotence and Sovereign Reign is not real today NOW? How many actually speak against the Gospel in this way? How many sit around talking about past prophecies as if they were future? How many refuse to see that Pentecost was the beginning of the Sovereign reign of our Lord Yeshua Who has ALL POWER given Him? How many refuse to operate in the Power given to us and instead argue and haggle about an eschatology that is already well in progress? How many refuse to acknowledge that Yeshua's JUDGEMENT of the Jews in AD70 was the end of the old covenant prophecies because the NEW has now begun? And lastly, how many requote OLD prophecies to support the theory that Yeshua failed and has to return again to get the ball rolling? I have SEEN the Spirit at work with my very own eyes. So I know He is Ruling and Reigning right now.. yet so many are in denial of this and keep looking backwards and expect some kind of future milenium. We are IN IT RIGHT NOW. Edited May 18, 2021 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clancy Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 They must be blinded from the truth, Justin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest clancy Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 (edited) I have also seen the Holy Spirit working with my own eyes, He is most definitely in control....that I will NVER doubt...... Watching Him doing the will of the Father.....is beyond human comprehension!.....” Unbelievable “....no words can express watching the Holy Spirit at work!.....it fills you with Awe and Wonder. Edited May 18, 2021 by clancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdombrat Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Justin Adams said: Amazing how many believers are bent on extolling their 'fact' that Yeshua is NOT now Ruling and Reigning. Their eschatology tries to PROVE He is not in COMPLETE CONTROL right now. How many believers have been taught to short-circuit the facts of the Gospel of Grace; that we are Ruling and Reigning with Christ in heavenly places right now. How many are trying to prove that God's Omnipotence and Sovereign Reign is not real today NOW? How many actually speak against the Gospel in this way? How many sit around talking about past prophecies as if they were future? How many refuse to see that Pentecost was the beginning of the Sovereign reign of our Lord Yeshua Who has ALL POWER given Him? How many refuse to operate in the Power given to us and instead argue and haggle about an eschatology that is already well in progress? How many refuse to acknowledge that Yeshua's JUDGEMENT of the Jews in AD70 was the end of the old covenant prophecies because the NEW has now begun? And lastly, how many requote OLD prophecies to support the theory that Yeshua failed and has to return again to get the ball rolling? I have SEEN the Spirit at work with my very own eyes. So I know He is Ruling and Reigning right now.. yet so many are in denial of this and keep looking backwards and expect some kind of future milenium. We are IN IT RIGHT NOW. Personally, every true Believer I know understands Christ is Reigning and Ruling in Spirit this very moment and has been since the Ascension. But only a handful believe He is Reigning and Ruling in person within the New Jerusalem right now. Edited May 18, 2021 by kingdombrat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted May 18, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 9,608 Content Per Day: 3.92 Reputation: 7,805 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, kingdombrat said: Personally, every true Believer I know understands Christ is Reigning and ruling in Spirit this very moment and has been since the Ascension. But only a handful believe He is Reigning and Ruling in person within the New Jerusalem right now. I could probably agree. I see the Church as the New Temple and we are it, and in it right now. The "New Jerusalem" idea is a lengthy subject and might only be a 'semblance' or a SYMBOL denoting the believers of today. Ie. "he that is a Jew is one inwardly" and that kind of thing. The fact that God has the whole of humanity in His sights might come to bear on that discussion - Jews and Gentiles and all the Tribes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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