Is the Charismatic Movement Dangerous and Heretical?

[Paul James]

Today I have been part of a spirited discussion in the John MacArthur Facebook group concerning his quote that the Charismatic Movement is dangerous.  Some of the commenters have accused Charismatics of being demon possessed.

I referred to 1 John by way of challenge to say that accusing brothers and sisters in Christ of being heretical, demon-possessed and therefore dangerous to the body of Christ, is expressing a form of hatred for Charismatics in general and therefore falling well below what the Lord requires of the standard of love toward our brothers and sisters in Christ that show evidence of being truly filled with the Spirit.

Jesus said that having even negative and resentful thoughts about others is equivalent to hating them.   Of course, the anti-Charismatic folk on the Facebook page accused me of being hypocritical, even though I'm not even a Charismatic, but a Presbyterian in a Union Methodist/Presbyterian church.

So, I asked them how they defined "Charismatic", and so far they have not answered me.

I wonder, what is your definition of "Charismatic"?  It would be interested to know what people thought of Charismatics and who they actually are.

[Michael37]

11 minutes ago, Paul James said:

Today I have been part of a spirited discussion in the John MacArthur Facebook group concerning his quote that the Charismatic Movement is dangerous.  Some of the commenters have accused Charismatics of being demon possessed.

I referred to 1 John by way of challenge to say that accusing brothers and sisters in Christ of being heretical, demon-possessed and therefore dangerous to the body of Christ, is expressing a form of hatred for Charismatics in general and therefore falling well below what the Lord requires of the standard of love toward our brothers and sisters in Christ that show evidence of being truly filled with the Spirit.

Jesus said that having even negative and resentful thoughts about others is equivalent to hating them.   Of course, the anti-Charismatic folk on the Facebook page accused me of being hypocritical, even though I'm not even a Charismatic, but a Presbyterian in a Union Methodist/Presbyterian church.

So, I asked them how they defined "Charismatic", and so far they have not answered me.

I wonder, what is your definition of "Charismatic"?  It would be interested to know what people thought of Charismatics and who they actually are.

Hi Paul,

Good to see your latest contribution.

If we really are saved then we have charis bestowed on us, made available to us through our faith.

Eph 2:8 For by grace (charis) you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

It is therefore my conclusion that the tag "non-charismatic Christian" is an oxymoron*, and the tag "charismatic Christian" is a tautology*.

* Oxymoron: a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction.

* Tautology: the saying of the same thing twice over in different words, generally considered to be a fault of style.

As for the so called Charismatic Movement, very suspect a lot of the time due to insane extremes, pagan mysticism, and misinterpretations of Scripture, all of which are found collaterally with all Christianity.

[Whyme]

27 minutes ago, Paul James said:

Today I have been part of a spirited discussion in the John MacArthur Facebook group concerning his quote that the Charismatic Movement is dangerous.  Some of the commenters have accused Charismatics of being demon possessed.

I referred to 1 John by way of challenge to say that accusing brothers and sisters in Christ of being heretical, demon-possessed and therefore dangerous to the body of Christ, is expressing a form of hatred for Charismatics in general and therefore falling well below what the Lord requires of the standard of love toward our brothers and sisters in Christ that show evidence of being truly filled with the Spirit.

Jesus said that having even negative and resentful thoughts about others is equivalent to hating them.   Of course, the anti-Charismatic folk on the Facebook page accused me of being hypocritical, even though I'm not even a Charismatic, but a Presbyterian in a Union Methodist/Presbyterian church.

So, I asked them how they defined "Charismatic", and so far they have not answered me.

I wonder, what is your definition of "Charismatic"?  It would be interested to know what people thought of Charismatics and who they actually are.

You have extremists in every  movement or denomination. I had charismatics tell me i was denying the power of Christ, and one tried to cast out demons from me, lol. I dont really agree with charismatics. 

[Paul James]

9 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Hi Paul,

Good to see your latest contribution.

If we really are saved then we have charis bestowed on us, made available to us through our faith.

Eph 2:8 For by grace (charis) you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

It is therefore my conclusion that the tag "non-charismatic Christian" is an oxymoron*, and the tag "charismatic Christian" is a tautology*.

* Oxymoron: a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction.

* Tautology: the saying of the same thing twice over in different words, generally considered to be a fault of style.

As for the so called Charismatic Movement, very suspect a lot of the time due to insane extremes, pagan mysticism, and misinterpretations of Scripture, all of which are found collaterally with all Christianity.

Well said.  Most anti-Charismatic comments are made by people who have a very narrow view of Charismatics.  They think that Bethel and Hillsong are representative of all Charismatics.   They don't realise that there are Anglican, Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, and Presbyterian charismatics who never go to insane extrmemes, pagan mysticism and misinterpretations of Scripture.

[Paul James]

7 minutes ago, Whyme said:

You have extremists in every  movement or denomination. I had charismatics tell me i was denying the power of Christ, and one tried to cast out demons from me, lol. I don't really agree with charismatics. 

I wonder what type of Charismatic who told you that you were denying the power of Christ and tried to cast demons out of you?

If it was a Bethel or Hillsong type, I am not surprised at all.  But these are pseudo-christian cults and not representative of the genuine Charismatic movement.

I have mixed with Anglican, Presbyterian, Catholic, and Baptist charismatics and have never heard any of them accusing others of denying Christ's power or trying to cast demons out of those who don't have the same views.

While I was in the Pentecostal movement (1966-1978) none of the pastors I served with ever tried to do what those so-called Charismatics did to you.

If I met someone who didn't have the experience of manifesting the gifts and had doubts about them, I would encourage them to believe according to Scripture that as soon as they were converted to Christ, they were baptised and filled with the Spirit and have the potential to manifest any of the gifts according to their faith.  If they didn't have the faith to manifest any of the gifts, it certainly doesn't mean that they are denying the power of Christ, or they are demon possessed.   It would be total arrogance on my part to treat others in that way.

[Whyme]

5 minutes ago, Paul James said:

I wonder what type of Charismatic who told you that you were denying the power of Christ and tried to cast demons out of you?

If it was a Bethel or Hillsong type, I am not surprised at all.  But these are pseudo-christian cults and not representative of the genuine Charismatic movement.

I have mixed with Anglican, Presbyterian, Catholic, and Baptist charismatics and have never heard any of them accusing others of denying Christ's power or trying to cast demons out of those who don't have the same views.

While I was in the Pentecostal movement (1966-1978) none of the pastors I served with ever tried to do what those so-called Charismatics did to you.

If I met someone who didn't have the experience of manifesting the gifts and had doubts about them, I would encourage them to believe according to Scripture that as soon as they were converted to Christ, they were baptised and filled with the Spirit and have the potential to manifest any of the gifts according to their faith.  If they didn't have the faith to manifest any of the gifts, it certainly doesn't mean that they are denying the power of Christ, or they are demon possessed.   It would be total arrogance on my part to treat others in that way.

Those things came from two different people, one was on FB, the other was in a charismatic forum where the guy tried to cast demons out of me. I dont know about those other charismatics you mention, but i dont really believe in apostles and prophets, not even in many teachers. Other than those who wrote scriptures.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Whyme

[Whyme]

They said i denied Christs power because i had depression. Not exactly helpful to a person who needs edification. I feel richly blessed however. Im on medication but im not sure i even need it anymore. I have Jesus within and im so blessed. He helps me to obey God and to think proper thoughts. My doctor sounds surprised that i am my own counselor. My doctor has been trying to get me into counseling but i resist because my problems are personal. But my doctor admits i seem to be doing a good job counseling myself. I think its Gods Spirit, who teaches me to think good thoughts. I made so many mistakes in life that the memory of them haunts me. How do i escape that torture? Thank God for the Lord who helps me. Even though i have infirmities of the mind and a haunting past, Gods grace sustains me, and he guides me. It took a while for me to learn, and thank God i have made it through this far. May the Lord be with me always and not let me stumble. Anyway, i hope im not derailing your thread brother.

[Riverwalker]

11 hours ago, Paul James said:

Today I have been part of a spirited discussion in the John MacArthur Facebook group concerning his quote that the Charismatic Movement is dangerous.  Some of the commenters have accused Charismatics of being demon possessed.

I referred to 1 John by way of challenge to say that accusing brothers and sisters in Christ of being heretical, demon-possessed and therefore dangerous to the body of Christ, is expressing a form of hatred for Charismatics in general and therefore falling well below what the Lord requires of the standard of love toward our brothers and sisters in Christ that show evidence of being truly filled with the Spirit.

Jesus said that having even negative and resentful thoughts about others is equivalent to hating them.   Of course, the anti-Charismatic folk on the Facebook page accused me of being hypocritical, even though I'm not even a Charismatic, but a Presbyterian in a Union Methodist/Presbyterian church.

So, I asked them how they defined "Charismatic", and so far they have not answered me.

I wonder, what is your definition of "Charismatic"?  It would be interested to know what people thought of Charismatics and who they actually are.

I have seen it done right and wrong, and when it is done right it is beautiful, but when people are all fleshed out and looking to be seen, prideful and "Grabbing The Blessing"  it is very wrong and very harmful

My base definition of Charismatic is the worship and celebration of God through Spirit Filled Praise and Worship some times manifesting in workings of the Gifts of the Spirit, which I do believe are still in effect for today.

Classic case of doing it wrong , in all my time in the charismatic church and coming up to the Altar to be prayed for I never once was "slayed" in Spirit, but in the beginning I did fall back because I thought it was expected. When I stopped falling some of the preachers would literally push me until I fell.  This was all about the preacher and the powers Of his "gift"

And then there were times I was with a group of believers and we prayed and praised and the Holy Spirit was there, moving on us, sometimes we were quiet and sometimes someone spoke a "word" and it was right on and lovely

Edited May 8, 2021 by Riverwalker

[Guest kingdombrat]

I remember when my Grandfather went from an [organized Pentecostal] to Independent he suddenly was accused of becoming part of the Charismatic Movement well over 30 years ago.   His reply was, "If God instructs me to have a Wesleyan, Baptist, Methodist, etc preacher come and preach, an organization [has NO RIGHT] to reprimand that decision.   If that makes me Charismatic, then may God allow this Church to be the best example of Charismatic one could be."

 

The funny thing is, we weren't caught up in silly ridiculous debates that can split a Church like Armenian vs Calvin, whether homosexuals can be ordained or not, and spend wasted time on everyone else's hurt feelings.   We simply opened the Bible, went Verse by Verse, and covered the Bible from beginning to end.   We lived mostly from the [First Churches] example found in the Book of Acts.  We believe [ALL] the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are still to this very day active and relevant like the entire Holy Word of God is.   We believe in Laying hands on people when they ask for prayer, Speaking in Tongues according to Scripture, and none of this gilligag where it looks like someone walking a dog claiming to be under the influence of the Spirit.   Yeah, once in a great while someone might shout "Praise the Lord or Praise God, they might lift their hands in surrender to God, they might even get excited and jump up and down a few times.   But the Bottom Line is Organizations have absolutely ruined Believers.  It has blinded them, mislead them, and once someone gets lost within man's Doctrine, it's extremely difficult to pull them out of it.

 

I still am today Independent.   If that makes me charismatic, then so be it.   But there's no freedom like being Free in God and free from Organization which simply is adulterated Religion! 

[Guest clancy]

 

 

Well, I communicate with God with great passion and enthusiasm, I dance for joy around the room at times,I speak God and to God in everything, my whole life revolves around God, ....I am “ God Obsessed”......I haven’t always been like this, these past 15 months I’m more alive in Christ than I have ever been,  personally I believe he has brought me in line with His Will for my life, where as before I believe I was fighting it......how peaceful my life is now I don’t have that void in me anymore.....God can heal, he can drive out demons, he can do whatever is pleasing to Him.

It took me many years to trust God in a certain area, because of my own fatherly experience and the 2 men I married.

if that makes me charismatic, then so be it, no matter what people throw at me, it now bounces off, I got straight to the Lord with my problems, and no one else.......that is my belief.

i am completely dependent on God, not “ myself”.

God gets the Glory in everything as I am “ NOTHING “ without Him!!

Edited May 8, 2021 by clancy