Polycarp

[Uriah]

26 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Yeah, sorta, kinda, no?

Jesus did come a second time and he saved the saved. He came a second time to judge Israel in 70 AD. It had nothing to do with salvation from sin and everything to do with their judgment as covenant-breakers. God meted out the just recompense for their repeated idolatrous egregious covenant-breaking. But not a single Christian was killed.

Josh,

Truly an impressive caliber of expressing the scriptural connectivity. But that is why, although I don't want to belabor this any longer- do you mean this in terms of Jesus leaving heaven in contradiction of scripture? I don't see how.

 I can understand something like Caesar crushed the rebellion and killed many people. Yet he never left Rome. Or, Obama found Saddam Hussein hiding in a hole, never leaving Washington. these things are by extension, not direct. Is that where you are on this?

 

[Marathoner]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Read through the thread. I know it is a lot of posts but both those questions have been answered already. 

 

Jesus has come many times for many in many ways for many purposes. He came at Pentecost to bestow the Holy Spirit. He came to Paul on the Damascus road. He came in judgment against Jerusalem in 70 AD. He came in a vision to John. He comes many times in many ways for many purposes. In Hebrews he is said to come for a salvation apart from sin. 

The millennium modern future-tempelists, rapturists, and pre-tribulationalists describe is a coming that is not apart from sin. Their own description of the millennial coming contradicts the stipulation of Hebrews 9:28. 

 

I quoted Matthew 23 in answer to a question I was asked by another poster. Go back and read or re-read the exchange because it explains itself. 

There it is: what I couldn't articulate because scriptural truth arrives in portions, and each portion has the effect of shattering inculcated nonsense into so many tiny pieces. Yes, the Lord has indeed come many times and to diverse people throughout time and space. 

You more than earned that Lightbulb of Brilliance. I was getting there but you gave me the Boot of Wakefulness. We need an icon for that.   

Edited May 16, 2021 by Marathoner

[Justin Adams]

MY ONE-STRING BANJO.. and why misapplication of scripture's prophecy is all important to understand. We MUST see that these falsehood are NOT benign.

Yeshua reigns NOW. Over everything and everywhere!!

Below is the heart of all the fake end times stuff:

Tim Lahaye and Lindsay both say that Yeshua failed and will have to come back later. They sold millions of false prophecy books and so now it is taught from pulpits. “Hang on folk, we are defeated but soon the great sky elevator will take us away and the 1000 years begins”. They rob Christ of His Deity.

THIS IS ALL GARBAGE.

 If we do not want to ACT with His Spirit's empowerment, then we will let the world infect the church.
haSatan the opposer is tied up and his influence is restricted, as prophesied.
However, we might listen to the rhetoric of the deposed pantheons (the archons) and let them control us and our thoughts. (It is all smoke and mirrors!)

It is our choice in the matter. The reason it seems to be going to hell in a hand basket is due to us... We let it happen. Every day.  We continually look over our shoulders for the next Camping event. What a waste of time the dispensationalist ideas are.
Let us stop looking for a ‘beast’ and a ‘mark’ and a ‘tribulation’ and all the other pursuits that are a waste of time. Let us instead ACT on our salvation beliefs and evangelize the lost.

We are in the so called ‘millennium’ right now. Are we making the most of it? The pre-mil futurists want to push Yeshua’s Reign out to some distant event. This causes us to be lax and non effectual in day to day life. He has given us the tools. We have to pick them up and use them. NOW.

All that is necessary for evil to abound is for good men to do nothing. We often give credit to the fallen foe and say, 'satan made me do it' etc. This is just not true. We are the sinners and have listened to the wrong Gospel.  We will not stop sinning, but the point is, are we working towards  God’s Kingdom and pushing His True  Gospel?

"Evil people run even though no one is chasing them, but good people are as brave as a lion. The wicked are edgy with guilt, ready to run off even when no one's after them;"

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you”.

"And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus"

"And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

"we are more than victorious, more than conquerors because of our LORD JESUS CHRIST"

We Reign With Christ Now (1 Cor. 15:24-25; Rev. 5:9-10)
Kings and Priests now (Rev. 1:6) 
Reign in life through righteousness (Rom. 5:17)

“in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us”.

Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues

For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people.”

Do you not know that you yourselves are God's temple, and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

In Him the whole building is fitted together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit.

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” 

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature”.

 

 

 

[Justin Adams]

4 minutes ago, electlady said:

Hi...but there are only two advents of Jesus Christ.  Right? 

Read again what Josh posted above please.

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, electlady said:

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. —Hebrews 9:27-28

 

Josh covered that event too. 

[Uriah]

8 hours ago, Josheb said:

Not sure I understand the question. Am I being asked if Jesus can come here without leaving heaven? If so then the answer is certainly, yes. Jesus is God and as God he is omnipresent. His having a resurrected body of flesh and bone does not preclude his omnipresence. If that's not what I am being asked then please clarify the question. 

I am simply asking if you agree that Jesus did not leave heaven for a second coming, as in 70 A.D.

[Uriah]

8 hours ago, Josheb said:

Not sure I understand the question. Am I being asked if Jesus can come here without leaving heaven? If so then the answer is certainly, yes. Jesus is God and as God he is omnipresent. His having a resurrected body of flesh and bone does not preclude his omnipresence. If that's not what I am being asked then please clarify the question. 

I am simply asking if you agree that Jesus did not leave heaven for a second coming, as in 70 A.D.

[Heleadethme]

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

 

But not a single Christian was killed in the destruction. Jesus had come for...

 

a salvation apart from sin for those who waited  

Heb 9:26-28

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

This is saying that when Jesus APPEARS the second time He will no longer have our sins laid on Him, because they will have already been judged.  He will not be coming and APPEARING as a scapegoat this time, but in all His Majesty and power as the Lord God Almighty.  As lightening that lights up the sky from east to west and every eye will see Him.  Breaking, breaking, as electlady said...newsflash - this hasn't happened yet.  We don't yet see the new order of things.  Sure the Lord manifests in His goings forth at divers times and to divers people, and many can testify to this, but those appearings are not the second coming appearing that scripture specifically tells us to wait and look for, and comfort one another in that blessed hope of.  And there is only mention of a second time, not a third or forth or fifth.

Funny though how everything to do with Israel seems to be an ensample, a type and shadow. 

[Retrobyter]

On 5/10/2021 at 8:46 AM, Justin Adams said:

I agree with Josh. If one ACTUALLY reads the ECF's accounts, one will see glaring errors. They are not in any way shape or form inspired. The modern church seems to promote snippets of 'helpful' information and proof texting just to support an eschatology, which in some cases bleeds into their theology; such as Dallas Theological Seminary and its support and dogmatism about Dispensational ideas that were promoted by Darby. That is why he founded DTS.

Shalom, Justin Adams.

Just a quick fact check: Actually, the Dallas Theological Seminary was founded by Lewis Sperry Chafer in 1924. John Nelson Darby lived from 1800 to 1882. 

John Nelson Darby founded dispensationalism, a branch of pretribulational rapturism, in turn, a branch of premillennialism. His theological ideas were publicized in C. I. Scofield's Reference Bible published in 1909.

While there's no doubt that dispensationalism was taught at DTS, it was not done so by Darby himself.

[Uriah]

8 hours ago, Josheb said:

To be fair and accurate, the Acts 1 text does not specify the details of Christ's coming in the clouds they way he was departing but if and when we survey the whole of scripture we don't have much reason to take Acts 1:11 to literally mean Jesus is literally coming on a literal cloud in the far, far distant future. We don't think he's coming on a literal horse with a literal sword literally coming out of his literal mouth. The two contradict one another (unless the horse on which he is riding is galloping down on the cloud ). 

I take a more literal view on Jesus being seen by the whole world in the future.

Rev. 8:8-The stoning from God.

The debris from the impact is captured in the Earth's magnetic field,  the charges build until ...

Rev. 6-The sky rolls up like a scroll.

Just as it has been shown elsewhere in our solar system, the ring around the planet will take on the auroral glow on either side.

This is how "they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory"...form one horizon to the other.

Quite literal as I understand. 

(a "plasma screen" on either side of Earth)

Edited May 16, 2021 by Uriah